the Sabbath

I don't get how anyone can follow Jesus and stop short of the cross, just to 'observe' his death, like some Rembrandt painting, marveling on its effect on them, while standing afar off behind the velvet rope.

Reminds me of something an atheist once said to me about how believing in God was easy, to which I responded, "If it was easy, everyone would do it."

Misunderstanding can come from both sides. That last step in the leap of faith is what stops most.

Kind of ironic for an atheist to be saying anything about how easy it is to believe in God, huh? .

Before I respond to this scripture - how do you think it relates to what we have been discussing.

Previously you said this was Christianity 101:

I agree, if we are in Christ we are going to obey His commandments. John 14:15-18 those who are not in Him are opposed to His law Romans 8:7-8.
The Commandments are like a mirror so we can see our sins Romans 3:20 Romans 7:7 and our need for Jesus to cleanse and for sanctification and so we are depending on His righteousness Psa 119:172 and not our own because we can't sanctify ourselves, only God can Eze 20:12 Obedience to God shows complete trust in Him to live holy and righteous lives with Jesus leading as our example to follow 1 John 2:6. Disobedience shows our will over His.

I will never forget a conversation I once had with a previous member of Christian Chat who happens to be SDA and was banned back in 2017. He made this statement to me below which demonstrates that he teaches, "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Yeah, Paul can be tricky to understand, many think he made a case for lawlessness, but its not what he taught. I'm short for time but I will be happy to go though Romans 7 with you a little later .

No one can keep the Law perfectly before or after they come to saving faith in Jesus. Do you think being saved will allow you or anyone you know to then perfectly keep the Law?

The law has a purpose. It is not to prove our worthiness, but to see our fleshly shortcomings. We were created for good works. These involve loving God, who then gives us the ability to love others as we should.

This includes the ability to forgive, as we are forgiven, and to share the good news available to all who will hear; and lot’s of repentance.

I see the Law as God’s perfect standard. I need a Redeemer to do for me what I cannot. It keeps us pointed in the right direction, it ain’t a measuring stick for us to judge others.

You said, "I will be happy to go though Romans 7 with you a little later."

You do not understand the letter to the Romans.

Saying that the letter to the Romans is tricky to understand, needs to be corrected.

The letter to the Romans is almost impossible to understand.

Nearly all New Testament scholars stumble in the letter to the Romans.

What I find most disturbing is that nearly all the N.T letters are simple letters.
Written to simple people concerning simple church problems.

So why do we have a N.T letter (Romans) that everyone gets wrong?

The answer is painfully simple and this is what disturbs me the most.

Paul is addressing the Jews in Rome from chapter two to chapter eleven.

2:17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely upon the Law and boast in God...

2:24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you”...

2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter.

3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks...

On and on it goes.

If anyone cannot see whom Paul is addressing in Romans, "Are we better than they"?

Then sects will abound, church theology will be corrupt, the gospel will be undermined.

2:24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you”...

This is important to understand because the decalogue gains traction in Romans.

Below is a verse that can be used to support the decalogue.

3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

If Paul is talking to the Jews, then Paul is establishing the law because the law condemns.
That is basis of Paul's argument in chapter seven of Romans, Paul was condemned by coveting.
The Gentiles are not required to obey the law because Paul is talking to the Jews.

It is not easy to see this in Romans but once you identify the audience that Paul is addressing.

Then the fog lifts and you will see exactly what Paul is saying in Romans 2 to Romans 11.

I don't think many people will see this distinction or even understand the issue.

This is a tragedy and has even altered church doctrine through Christian history.

So why do we have a N.T letter (Romans) that everyone gets wrong?

The answer is painfully simple and this is what disturbs me the most.

Paul is addressing the Jews in Rome from chapter two to chapter eleven.

What you are saying, 'the moral law', has always been. That is not true. Read what Paul states below.

Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons and daughters, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the Law, the temple service, and the promises.

Mt Sinai was ground zero for the entire law. That includes what you call the moral law, Exodus 20.

So gentiles can worship others gods, vain God’s name covet and murder etc.. Can you point to where Gentiles are released from God’s holy commanemnts. Revelation 22:14 Rev 14:12 doesn’t make the distinction only Jews are blessed and will enter into the heavenly kingdom. In God’s covenant there is no Jew or Gentile, just God’s people grafted in through faith. Gal 2:26-28. Paul is not contradicting Himself or Jesus.

Ground zero.... not at all.
Ex 20 was not the start of the moral law.

The law does have a purpose -it shows us our sins and to show how one is to live so we are not depending on our standard of righteousness but God’s Psa 119:172. The law can’t save, it just shows us our sins. Romans 7:7 Romans 3:20. And the law points us to Christ that when we commit sin or break God’s law we can go to Him for forgiveness and scarification. When Jesus forgives He says go and sin no more. What is dangerous is covering our sins because in doing so we can’t prosper Pro 28:13 by going to Christ for His forgiveness when repenting and to receive His mercy, grace and sanctification. While I agree we can’t keep God’s law on our own, we can though Him as all things are possible through Christ including overcoming sin- if we fall along the way Jesus is now our High Priest and instead of making an animal sacrifice Jesus covers us with His blood, but we too must die of our old self (sin) and be walking in Christ. He doesn’t make us obey alone, but it requires our cooperation John 14:15-18 and Jesus tells us He has a people who overcomes Rev 14:12

I will never forget a conversation I once had with a previous member of Christian Chat who happens to be SDA and was banned back in 2017. He made this statement to me below which demonstrates that he teaches, "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

The law, the written law, the commandments, all began at Exodus 20.

You do not understand what 'the law' means.

Israel was given the law at Exodus 20, do you understand?

You keep babbling on about the law before Exodus. You are mistaken, you are in error.

The tablets of stone were given at Exodus 20 and not before.

Stop making claims that are not based on the scripture.

It was a sin for Cain to kill Abel
Sin is the transgression of the law.

A law must have existed for Cain to be held guilty of sin.

The law, the written law, the commandments, all began at Exodus 20.

You keep babbling on about the law before Exodus. You are mistaken, you are in error.

The tablets of stone were given at Exodus 20 and not before.

Stop making claims that are not based on the scripture.

You need to seriously improve your understanding of the law.

The law not only declares that you are sinful, the law tells you that you cannot change.

You are dead in your sin, you have been condemned. It killed Paul, how come it did not kill you?

Romans 7:9
I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died.

The law achieved it's real purpose, it killed you.

Dead men cannot rise and try and obey the law again.

The law is the executioner.

Cain did not love his brother.