The cults

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wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,234
1,128
113
New Zealand
#41
Many question whether the following come from the Holy Spirit? Evil spirits? Or mass hysteria? Is it biblical or not? A cult or not?

The place? The Red River is near the Tennessee and Kentucky border. The time is 1799. The Pastor? Reverend James McGready of North Carolina. Others present were Mr. Rankin, Mr. Hodge, and William McGee, Presbyterian preachers, and John McGee, brother of William McGee, a Methodist preacher.

It was a marathon service lasting four days. Nothing unusual occurred until the final day when Mr. Hodge was preaching. Suddenly, a woman began to vent her emotions with ear-splitting cries and shouts. When the service ended, instead of the congregation dispersing, they remained.

But a strange thing happened: many in attendance began to weep silently. Mr. McGee did not understand what was happening; he left his seat and sat on the floor. He started to tremble, claiming to feel the power of God on him. Suddenly, he felt an irresistible urge to preach, and the people seemed eager to hear him. As he spoke, the same woman shouted and would not be silent.

McGee expressed his belief that there was a greater than he was preaching and urged the people to let the Lord God’s Omnipotent reign in their hearts. They were to submit to God so their soul could live. Many became vocal as renewed outcries from the same woman grew in intensity.

The preacher’s emotions had been worked up to their highest level. After reflecting for a few moments, he concluded that he would disregard the standard orderly procedures of the church. He then passed along the aisles, shouting and encouraging vehemently.

The noise and confusion increased, and hysteria grew to new heights. Screams for mercy were mingled with shouts of ecstasy as agitation overspread the multitude. This religious fervor soon spread along the Green and the Cumberland rivers.

Men brought their beds and provisions, traveling fifty miles to hear him preach. The idea was new. Hundreds of others adopted it as new camp meetings sprung up. The first regular general camp meeting was at the Gasper River Church in July 1800, but the rage spread, and a dozen encampments quickly followed. The meetings were held in the woods near churches, and the churches furnished lodging places for the preachers.

As the meetings progressed and the excitement grew more intense, those present rushed from preacher to preacher, singing, shouting, laughing, calling upon men to repent. Men and women fell to the ground, unable to help themselves. So many lay on the ground that the others couldn’t move around.

During the evening, the excitement became so intense that those who fell had to be helped up, carried to the meeting house, and laid on the floor so no one would trample them. Those who fell were called the “spiritually slain;” others lay quiet, unable to move or speak. And yet others would scream as though in great pain, floundering about as if having no control of their bodies.

Red River revival begins to spread. Time, 1807. Place? Logan Co., Kentucky.

Here was a place where human imaginations ran wild. It was a turbulent evening, fanatical, to say the least. As campfires blazed, those who had assembled bowed their heads. Hundreds of candles, lamps, and torches blazed, throwing both shadow and light into the woods, giving the woods an eerie appearance.

The chanting of hymns, passionate exhortations, prayers, sobs, shrieks, and shouts were heard from those under intense agitation throughout the evening.

Sudden spasms came upon many, and unexpectedly, they would thrust themselves to the ground. Feelings among them had worked itself up to the highest pitch of excitement until the early morning hours.

Many hours had passed, and the enthusiasm of those present began to cause strange contortions among the people, coming from what they claimed to be a so-called mysterious agency. From the preachers came an emotional, cheerful, optimistic excitement; and lastly, the zeal of the Methodists, who could not refrain from shouting aloud during the sermon and shaking hands with those close by.

Reverend James Crawford claimed those who fell to the ground numbered an astounding three thousand. This revival was afterward called the New Lights. Following this Great American Awakening, the Quakers, who were united, split into four distinctive groups. To the left of the New Lights, 321 separate groups formed, and many remained divided.

Again, division is the calling card of these forms of activities. Splits among the rank and file, each having pretentious leaders who break away from the historical teaching and biblically instructed forms of worship.
Yup my group was doing this on a small scale..and was not a Christian thing. Although they did talk about bringing in 'Christ consciousness '.

So.. after being in this, I saw very similar things in strongly charismatic churches. To me, it wasn't actually different. It was the same sort of self awareness and expression ..however extreme..being the modus operandus.

God obviously can still work miracles, and stir people up, but not cause confusion, hysteria and self egrandisement
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
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#42
Jeanne Dixon
Psychic hotlines are only one aspect of America’s growing psychic industry. We have psychic fairs and metaphysical and New Age bookstores online. On January 25, 1997, Jeanne Dixon, America’s most famous psychic, died.

During her lifetime, America experienced unparalleled growth in the interest and acceptance of psychics and paranormal phenomena. Dixon had become an advisor to world leaders, including U.S. Presidents, writing eight books. She had syndicated columns featured in over 800 newspapers worldwide at the time of her death.

Within this psychic movement, we can find certain aspects of the mesmeric and Spiritualist movements, including hypnotism, alleged healing, and rapping's. Spiritualists now collaborate with scholars to scientifically measure and prove psychic phenomena.
Some psychics claim that their powers are consistent with the Bible and come from God; they even offer convincing demonstrations as proof of supernatural abilities.

Jesus warned his followers not to seek after signs, explaining that his resurrection, or the “sign of Jonah,” would be the only verifying miracle upon which believers can trust. Scripture warns us of demons, “seducing spirits,” and “doctrines of devils.” We are warned, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

Putting your Christian faith into any one of these can be both spiritually and emotionally dangerous. Anyone can become dependent on their psychics for making even simple daily decisions, and in this, they lose control of their lives.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
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#43
Fabricating or putting a false or fabricated sense on any scripture verse can become a deadly crime against humanity. Let me give you an example, by examining two verses. I use this example because it was a horrible period of time for the Christian community at large and for mankind in general.

Acts 10:13, Peter had a vision, he saw heaven open, and a vessel descended down to him. It was like a great sheet, and it held all types of four-footed beasts of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and fowls of the air. It appears that every species of animal and bird were contained in this sheet. These were both clean and unclean (the unclean were forbidden by the Jew to eat, and were not to be used in their ceremonial law) these were all mixed together,

"And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill and eat."

Peter at first refused the Lord, saying, "I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.

Now compare "Kill and eat" with,

John 21:16. Jesus said to Peter, "Feed my sheep."

The leaders of the Catholic church, who in past centuries, had claimed, and still claim to be the successors of Peter, have used both of these verses in the following manner.

From the command, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat, compared with the Lord's direction to Peter, to "Feed my sheep," they have by a two-fold false inference, feed the Church, and over the centuries put thousands of Christians to death, Christians who chose to dispute them. Again, it becomes obvious this incorrect interpretation was derived from putting a false and totally fabricated sense upon these passages.
 
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Niki7

Guest
#44
bluto, you wrote, "We are still responsible for "exposing" false teachers." That my friend is a well thought out statement. Every Christian should have a plaque hanging on the wall stating, "I am responsible for "exposing false teachers."
Everyone is not at all responsible for exposing false teachers. That is one reason why we have so much division among 'Christians'. Much of what you have opined about in this forum illustrates that many do not agree with you at all. So, one would imagine that anyone who disagrees with you must be a false teacher according to your own personal yardstick. Of course that is not true.

See how that goes? No of course you don't. :rolleyes:
 
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Niki7

Guest
#45
No worry, the Lord has saved a few of us for his purposes.
I would really like to say where your head is at but this is a Christian forum. As it is a Christian forum and some of us believe we have to maintain a certain decorum, people like you get away with the gobble de gook you spout.

Nonetheless, it is a wonder if your head still fits through regular doorways.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#46
Everyone is not at all responsible for exposing false teachers.
Actually Ephesians 5:10, 11 make every Christian responsible for reproving the works of darkness (which include false teachings): Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. We are also told not to be blown about by every wind of doctrine.
 
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Niki7

Guest
#47
Actually Ephesians 5:10, 11 make every Christian responsible for reproving the works of darkness (which include false teachings): Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. We are also told not to be blown about by every wind of doctrine.
You entirely missed my point. WHY is everyone not responsible?

ALL Christians should have the wherewithall to be able to identify false teaching but obviously they do not was my point

I mean, you just seem to want to disagree so you think you found something to disagree with but actually, I made a very valid point

Do you really think that a false teacher has the ability to identify and warn about false teachers?

The church....believers....is in dire straits
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,106
534
113
#48
Everyone is not at all responsible for exposing false teachers. That is one reason why we have so much division among 'Christians'. Much of what you have opined about in this forum illustrates that many do not agree with you at all. So, one would imagine that anyone who disagrees with you must be a false teacher according to your own personal yardstick. Of course that is not true.

See how that goes? No of course you don't. :rolleyes:
Yea Niki7, I see how it goes. Your demonstrating how "Biblically ignorant" you are. Name all the people on this forum that disagree with what I stated. All I did was quote scripture and "NO," anyone who disagrees with what I quoted is not a false teacher. And one of the reasons we have division in the church is because people like you are still feeding off baby formula, grow up.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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Niki7

Guest
#49
Yea Niki7, I see how it goes. Your demonstrating how "Biblically ignorant" you are. Name all the people on this forum that disagree with what I stated. All I did was quote scripture and "NO," anyone who disagrees with what I quoted is not a false teacher. And one of the reasons we have division in the church is because people like you are still feeding off baby formula, grow up.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
childish

I did not even quote anything you said so what's your grief? whatever :rolleyes:

you seem very offended. that is an indication of someone who thinks anyone who disagrees with them is wrong

done conversing with you. I especially do not like the opinions of those that assume God is on their side and they alone possess 'adult' knowledge of scripture.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#50
My whole walk in God is by my faith in God. If w.o.f. movement kept it simple, it would be a good doctrine because "all Christians" live by faith, pray through faith, walk in faith, battle evil by faith. There's not a single thing I can do that makes my life better until I put my faith in God. If the doctrine was kept to that it would be one of the best doctrines to adhere to.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,106
534
113
#51
My whole walk in God is by my faith in God. If w.o.f. movement kept it simple, it would be a good doctrine because "all Christians" live by faith, pray through faith, walk in faith, battle evil by faith. There's not a single thing I can do that makes my life better until I put my faith in God. If the doctrine was kept to that it would be one of the best doctrines to adhere to.
Unfortunately the "Wof" movement does not adhere to the real understanding of Romans 10:8, "But what does it say? The Word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching." In other words, the message of salvation by faith conveys the good news that Christ, the Son of God, came down from heaven to become the Son of Man and to die for us, and that He has ascended again from the dead."

The actual Wof movement changed the meaning of this verse by saying, "You can have what you say." Or you have a divine right to prosper in all areas of life. Or you will get healed, no matter your physical problem. Of course it gets a lot worse when you have Kenneth Copeland teaching that Jesus Christ took on the nature of Satan. And that He Jesus went to hell and was tortured by Satan until God the Father yelled out, "Let Him be." I just touched on some of this, it gets a lot worse. Btw, welcome to Church Chat.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#52
Do you really think that a false teacher has the ability to identify and warn about false teachers?
Did I say anything about false teachers identifying false teachers? That would be absurd. However, God and Christ expect all believers to be well-grounded in the truth, so that if a false teachers comes along they can identify that person, and also inform others, so that they do not fall into error.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#53
Did I say anything about false teachers identifying false teachers? That would be absurd. However, God and Christ expect all believers to be well-grounded in the truth, so that if a false teachers comes along they can identify that person, and also inform others, so that they do not fall into error.
Oh really? Kindly show me the scripture(s) that indicate such expectations coming from God and Christ. Especially as pertains to those who are young in their salvation journey.

It's the teachers/self-proclaimed prophets/ pastors etc that have the obligation to insure their flock being well grounded

The false teachers within so many churches are allowed to spout their evil lies because the people in charge cannot tell the difference

Tell me, why is such a huge chunk of the New Testament written to for correction? Christians back then were also falling into the orbits of false teachers.

Right :rolleyes:
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#54
Everyone is not at all responsible for exposing false teachers. That is one reason why we have so much division among 'Christians'. Much of what you have opined about in this forum illustrates that many do not agree with you at all. So, one would imagine that anyone who disagrees with you must be a false teacher according to your own personal yardstick. Of course that is not true.

See how that goes? No of course you don't. :rolleyes:
Hay Niki if you feel uncomfortable about something, don't do it. You don't have to agree with me, never asked you to. But I know exactly what I stand for. Everything and anything I have posted on this forum, I can prove, so my question to you is, "Can you?"

I love the Lord, I love his word, I love my brothers in Christ, but I don't like bad people, liars, drunks, drugies, bullies and big mouths. I fought for my country and for people like you so we can remain free, and I'll never step back from that fight. What I believe is right, I'll stand by it with my last breath. if you want to hide in a closet, do so, it's a bad world out there.

Let me leave you with this, if you believe any of my posts are incorrect, tell me why. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but you had better have scriptural evidence to back you up.
 
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Niki7

Guest
#55
Hay Niki if you feel uncomfortable about something, don't do it. You don't have to agree with me, never asked you to. But I know exactly what I stand for. Everything and anything I have posted on this forum, I can prove, so my question to you is, "Can you?"

I love the Lord, I love his word, I love my brothers in Christ, but I don't like bad people, liars, drunks, drugies, bullies and big mouths. I fought for my country and for people like you so we can remain free, and I'll never step back from that fight. What I believe is right, I'll stand by it with my last breath. if you want to hide in a closet, do so, it's a bad world out there.

Let me leave you with this, if you believe any of my posts are incorrect, tell me why. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but you had better have scriptural evidence to back you up.
No actually you cannot prove everything you have posted in this forum as the many people who responded in the negative to your posts will attest.

I believe you do love God but your love for God is not (at least on my part) been in question. I responded to some of your posts and actually you responded to one of mine first...I'm not going to go look it up but feel free.

We all believe we are right and then we have what the Bible actually states. Twisting scripture can and does result in very unbiblical renditions being 'proved' so that is of no use in your explanation.

No you did not fight for people like me thank you very much. I'm Canadian although living in the US. Canada was fighting for freedom from tyranny long before the US joined the war. But of course the US has been involved in wars ever since. I have a step son here though who did 2 tours in Afghanistan, a Canadian niece in the US army as a medic and I don't owe you a thing. In fact, I think that was a cheap shot on your part.

My dad was in law enforcement in Canada and believe me, he did his part to fight against criminals and their activities.

You will never admit to being wrong . That's almost funny.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#56
Today, more than ever before, the voice of the Christian is being drowned out by the ever-growing cults. Mormonism is one example; it stands against the word of God. They have defiled the word of God; therefore, a foreign spirit that worships another god?"

2 Corinthians 6:15 refers to the word Belial. Belial means wickedness, to identify with, or is descriptive of Satan. Can we apply this Belialism to the Mormon church? James Talmage, a Mormon authority, stated in the Mormon Articles of Faith,

"Among the spirit children of Elohim, the firstborn is Jehovah (meaning Jesus Christ) to whom all others (humans) are juniors," this means Lucifer, all angels, and all men, good or bad, are the sons of God.

The Mormon organization implies that Jesus Christ is a common god of minor importance in the larger scale of Mormon thinking. They teach that this earth is only one of an infinite number of worlds, each having its gods who have existed and evolved for ages, much longer than Jesus Christ's existence. They also teach that Jesus is the firstborn, or elder, only by his position and achievement, not His nature or essence.

When Mormons refer to "God the Father," they are speaking and teaching of a resurrected man who became a God, who is married to many women, and who begat (fathered) the spirit of every person who lived or now lives on this earth through physical relations with His many wives. For this reason, they believe in multiple wives.
By the phrase "His Son, Jesus Christ," Mormons refer to Jesus as the firstborn of those spirit children and that he is a spirit brother to Lucifer. They teach that Jesus was born physically in Bethlehem as a result of sexual relations between Heavenly Father and His daughter, Mary.

Also, the politicians in America are polluting the spiritual atmosphere of this nation and its people. They are and will bring the wrath of God down on this nation. God said, "My people are lost from a lack of knowledge." Christians are not to be yoked with the spirits of Belial. God keeps records. In Revelation 20:12, "The books were opened," and every man will be rewarded or punished for their actions in the flesh.

Jesus Christ is our Savior, heaven is where his throne is, and one day, the earth will be His footstool. He will bless those who trust him, have faith in him, and believe that He is.

Christians are said to be the light of this world. We are to be God's ambassadors. So, let all do what is right in the eyes of God. Let God's blessing flow again in America. We must work now while the light is with us. Soon, the spirit of darkness will come over the earth, a time when no man can work, the work of God.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#57
No actually you cannot prove everything you have posted in this forum as the many people who responded in the negative to your posts will attest.

I believe you do love God but your love for God is not (at least on my part) been in question. I responded to some of your posts and actually you responded to one of mine first...I'm not going to go look it up but feel free.

We all believe we are right and then we have what the Bible actually states. Twisting scripture can and does result in very unbiblical renditions being 'proved' so that is of no use in your explanation.

No you did not fight for people like me thank you very much. I'm Canadian although living in the US. Canada was fighting for freedom from tyranny long before the US joined the war. But of course the US has been involved in wars ever since. I have a step son here though who did 2 tours in Afghanistan, a Canadian niece in the US army as a medic and I don't owe you a thing. In fact, I think that was a cheap shot on your part.

My dad was in law enforcement in Canada and believe me, he did his part to fight against criminals and their activities.

You will never admit to being wrong . That's almost funny.
Bla, Bla, Bla!
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#58
Today, more than ever before, the voice of the Christian is being drowned out by the ever-growing cults. Mormonism is one example; it stands against the word of God. They have defiled the word of God; therefore, a foreign spirit that worships another god?"

2 Corinthians 6:15 refers to the word Belial. Belial means wickedness, to identify with, or is descriptive of Satan. Can we apply this Belialism to the Mormon church? James Talmage, a Mormon authority, stated in the Mormon Articles of Faith,

"Among the spirit children of Elohim, the firstborn is Jehovah (meaning Jesus Christ) to whom all others (humans) are juniors," this means Lucifer, all angels, and all men, good or bad, are the sons of God.

The Mormon organization implies that Jesus Christ is a common god of minor importance in the larger scale of Mormon thinking. They teach that this earth is only one of an infinite number of worlds, each having its gods who have existed and evolved for ages, much longer than Jesus Christ's existence. They also teach that Jesus is the firstborn, or elder, only by his position and achievement, not His nature or essence.

When Mormons refer to "God the Father," they are speaking and teaching of a resurrected man who became a God, who is married to many women, and who begat (fathered) the spirit of every person who lived or now lives on this earth through physical relations with His many wives. For this reason, they believe in multiple wives.
By the phrase "His Son, Jesus Christ," Mormons refer to Jesus as the firstborn of those spirit children and that he is a spirit brother to Lucifer. They teach that Jesus was born physically in Bethlehem as a result of sexual relations between Heavenly Father and His daughter, Mary.

Also, the politicians in America are polluting the spiritual atmosphere of this nation and its people. They are and will bring the wrath of God down on this nation. God said, "My people are lost from a lack of knowledge." Christians are not to be yoked with the spirits of Belial. God keeps records. In Revelation 20:12, "The books were opened," and every man will be rewarded or punished for their actions in the flesh.

Jesus Christ is our Savior, heaven is where his throne is, and one day, the earth will be His footstool. He will bless those who trust him, have faith in him, and believe that He is.

Christians are said to be the light of this world. We are to be God's ambassadors. So, let all do what is right in the eyes of God. Let God's blessing flow again in America. We must work now while the light is with us. Soon, the spirit of darkness will come over the earth, a time when no man can work, the work of God.
You actually know less than you think you do.

Exactly. You all the way. That is all your hear when someone does not agree with how great you think you are.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#60
I thought his post won the best dreaded scourge award yet lol 😋
Hay thunderrr-mental, your posts remind me of the little Cho-Cho that never gives up.

I'm glad that was your short answer.
Why do you believe people as you described were ever saved?
They were never saved because they choose not to be, it's called free-will.