What if you die before water baptism?

Sure there is something to debate. We both can't be right.

You want to put baptism after being saved but does Jesus, in His own words, put baptism before or after saved?
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
If baptism comes after saved, Jesus would have said so.

We are not saved the same way as the thief. Was the thief saved by the gospel? Did the thief hear the gospel?

You've your opinion and I have mine....it's all good....take care and GOD bless 🙂

I'm confused you already say you know the arguments. Then why did you ask? Those "argument's" didn't come from nonbelievers. Depends who you ask. Are you asking just Catholics or what group? There is no scripture to answer this thus the arguments. Some will say your doomed forever away from God based on what Peter said in Acts or some other scripture. Others will say if you didn't get baptized you will be with the Father because sin does not send anyone to hell.

The answer is not based on what some believer says. To already know what's going to be said.. I then question the motive.

Lol yeah what Christian would think that

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What’s the name tbey baptized in ? Is Jesus name “ the son “ or is the sons name Jesus ?

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t believe in three Gods I believe in one God who created all things , who later became flesh ( the son ) and sent his holy spirit to believers ( the Holy Ghost )

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Incase your not sure about what the name of the lord is

“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬

The father and son

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7, 9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The “ holy spirit “

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The spirit isn’t a name the holt ghost isn’t a name it’s a title for the spirit of our holy God . The Son isn’t a name it’s a title for the manifestation of God in the flesh who’s name is Jesus Christ

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and yes friend Jesus only he’s is the one and only

The thief on the cross is not a solid argument he lives in e region of Jude’s and Jerusalem apparently where he was crucified . Many people use him as an example of someone who isn’t baptized but there’s no evidence that he wasn’t the only evidence loosely suggests he could be because of the fact that the people in the region had been getting baptized for three years of more whos to say he wasn’t anong these folks ?



“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭

a there’s no way for anyone to say the thief wasn’t baptized only that he was t baptized in water while hanging there dying bedside Jesus there’s no possible way to say he wasn’t baptized before that it says everyone in the area ( probably. Ot literally everyone but sirely a large number of people in that region were baptized prior the thief could absolutely have been baptized or maybe he wasn’t

My point is to use the thief who repents and confesses Jesus on the cross as an example that we don’t need to be baptized for remission of sins is a faulty position with no proof it’s just another connection we make wi th our thinking it through people were being baptized for a long time before that verse happens we simply don’t know either way so it’s not a good proof of non baptism salvation

You've your opinion and I have mine....it's all good....take care and GOD bless 🙂

God bless you also

I suggest to you no one in the bible, after Jesus's ascension, was born again that way. If you look at the actual conversions God has given us, not one was converted that way. Please notice where Jesus places baptism in relation to being saved.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

It's Satan's job to confuse us and he's doing a great job.
Do you see John's baptism and the one Jesus commanded at the great commission as the same baptism?

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them,

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:45-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬


After the cross

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You won’t adress any of this you’ll explain how there’s two baptisms you’ll say baptism has nothing to do with water

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you won’t touch it or the gentiles

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The hypergracers constantly try to explain why the things in the Bible aren’t necassary you guys never adresss scripture you just explain why it’s all wrong it wastes time and I’m old I’m only here to talk about what the bi ke actually does say

and yeah baptism for the remission of sins is the same it’s always been since God sent John the baptizer to baotize for remission of sins ehat changes after the cross is now Jesus sends the Holy Ghost to those baptized in his name for remission of sins like peters clearly saying


“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. “

need to be born of water and spirit

I will use as much scripture as the other person can handle.

I suggest to you John's baptism is not the same as baptism in the name of Jesus. Please consider Acts 18-19. At the end of Acts 18 Apollos preaches Jesus accurately with one exception. He only knows the baptism of John. When Priscilla and Aquilla hear him, they take him aside and teach him the Way more accurately. Then Paul rolls into town and meets these men converted by Apollos. When he learns they didn't even know about the HS, he asks them "And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized?"
If John's baptism is the same then Paul would not have asked this question. When he finds out they were baptized unto John's baptism he baptizes them again in the name of Jeus.

18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27 And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed, 28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, showing by the Scriptures that the Christ was Jesus.

19:1 And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

These believers were water baptized but it was not in the name of Jesus. John's baptism is not the same as baptism in the name of Jesus.

Yes it is one of Satan's jobs to confuse us and you are right he is doing a great job in doing so but it's Jesus' job to say who is truly saved as Jesus and Jesus alone is the ONLY one to judge us ALL. As ONLY Jesus truly knows us.

Thanks ☺☺☺

All true. One thing we need to realize is what are we going to be judged by.
48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.

The words Jesus has spoken to us is: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, "
Do you believe that is truth or "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, " is true.

Both thieves were hurling insults at Jesus while they were all hanging on their crosses in the beginning per Matthew and Mark's gospel accounts. Would a baptized Christian hurl insults at their Lord Jesus while they all hang there dying? No.

Note that Jesus died before the two thieves did. That means they both witnessed everything that Jesus said and did while on the cross. Witnessing all that changed the mind of one of the thieves and converted him. So before Jesus died, he finally stood up for Jesus and asked his now Lord Jesus to remember him. He was also repentant because he knew what he did was wrong and was rightfully crucified for them while also acknowledging that Jesus didn't deserve the crucifixion. Jesus then said that the thief will be with Him in paradise.

So definitely saved without being water-baptized.

I was baptized but not to get saved. If Jesus did, even though He of all people didn't need to, then I would do it too. It also means a lot to God the Father and the Holy Spirit. They all rarely ever show up all three at the same time, but this is one of the few times ever recorded in the Bible when they did. So I think people should get baptized if it means so much to God.

I also think it's a test. If you can do this, such a little thing, then you can be trusted and encouraged to do a lot more for God. But if you make excuses not do this when you have the ability to do so, then you might be someone God can't trust to do more in service to Him. I mean, if you make excuses not to do it, what else would you excuse in regard to God and His leading?


🍑

Amen. There is a third Scriptural alternative for guidance, if you are interested:

ONE Baptism!

Amen.

The thief was saved in the same was as Abraham was, and the same way as we are. Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Thread Title

What if you die before water baptism?


Your classed as a sinner from birth and are doomed to hell without receiving Jesus so being Baptised --------Dunked ----in a tub of water or pool won't change your sinful nature so your going where you would have gone anyway -----to HELL

If you die before you are Baptised by the Living Water who is the Holy Spirit your doomed -----your going to the fiery furnace --Hell----as your still a Sinner -----

Yeah man that’s a good logical opinion you have there …..

can I ask though you simply don’t believe Luke’s gospel ? Based on marks and Matthews account of the crucifixion? you then don’t believe Luke’s ?

sounds like you are pretty sure the thief who was dying on the cross couldn’t possibly have been baptized I think this makes it very much possible

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭

It doesn’t prove he was but if he was around the area in the prior three of more years it makes it very possible and even likely to me even after reading your post and logic there I don’t mean any disrespect just I don’t agree with you which should be fine given baptism for remission of sins is a pretty consistent part of doctrine in the Bibles New Testament before and after the cross hard for me to just pretend it’s not there

Jesus getting baptized

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After the cross

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭

Still water baptism

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
….And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12, 36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m just not willing to pretend Gods doctrines like baptism for remission of sins is irrelevant or that it doesn’t exist . Some are willing to reject it and make logical arguments like well if this dying thief didn’t get baptized we don’t need it

and use thier logical reasoning to erase what’s actually written there to accept and believe and act upon there’s never been any reason for any Christian to say “ hey we don’t really need to get baptized to be saved “ it’s a lack of faith

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s why they were doing this

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’ve never understood why we try to ask can we be saved by not believing what Jesus said about being saved ? I just got baptized when I really heard and believed that you know ? I just believe it is what it says it is for maybe that’s not what we’re supposed to do but I’ll probably die on the hill of believing the Bible when it’s repetetive and clear like it is regarding baptism

but is god going to send a person to hell because they didn’t actually have an opportunity to get baptized ? Naw I’ve never claimed anything like this . But we use far fetched scenarios to try to justify saying we don’t need to get baptized for remission of sins I’ve never understood the motivation why not just be believers and accept the gift ?

Didn’t he actually believe what God told him though ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

would Abraham the believer get baptized if God told him that ? And would he share the info with others too if he believed I mean .

remember though how Abraham was a believer god told him things he believed and followed