Works and Salvation

“Trained by grace”: what does that have to do with obedience by human effort?

Thank goodness for the faith of Jesus Christ which is imputed to the believer. He is the Just and the justifier of them which believe. No amount of works can justify us before God.

While it is true that no amount of works can earn our salvation (Romans 4:1-5), it is also true that only doers of the law will be justified (Romans 2:13), so there must be a reason why our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are justified does not abolish our need to obey God’s law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:31).

Doers of the law are those that are justified. Justification is part and parcel of salvation...Romans 3:24...being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ...
You always add works to grace. Why do you need to share in God's glory?

Where in Scripture is this process described?

Thankfully, I am dependent upon the faith of Jesus Christ and not my own faith to justify. Christ is the only one who completely obeyed the law without sin. His faith justifies the believer.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

God did not give His law in order to put His children into slavery, but to teach us how to live as people who have been freed from slavery. If God freed His children out of slavery in Egypt in order to put us into slavery to His law, then it would be for slavery that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free. In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of it that puts us into slavery while it is the truth that sets us free.

The Mosaic Law is God’s word (Deuteronomy 5:31-33) and Jesus is God’s word made flesh, so Jesus embodied God’s word by setting a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and it should not be surprising to think that he leads us to do that, but what should be surprising is to think that he leads us to do anything other than that.


Again, God’s law is God’s word. While we do not earn our salvation as a wage by obeying it, us embodying it is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not embodying it.

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Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is for their salvation. 2For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. 3Because they were ignorant of God’s righteousness and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.

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In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing him is the goal of the law. In Roman 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing the law as though righteousness were earned by their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. The problem is that most Christians today still misunderstand the goal of the law as being about trying to establish our own righteousness rather that as being to know Jesus, so clarifying the goal of the law is essentially what this thread is about.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. So I am not adding works to grace, but rather there are many verses like this that repeatedly say that God is gracious to us by teaching us to do good works.

By doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law we are testifying about God’s goodness, which is why Jesus said that our good works bring glory to the Father (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God’s goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him, and it is by that faith that we are justified. So are good works are about giving glory to God, not about sharing in His glory.

Then why the emphasis on the law and not the work of God. By continually associating the law with salvation, you make a link that doesn't exist. There is a relationship between faith and works. There is no relationship between the law and salvation.
Obedience is a wonderful thing. But it isn't possible apart from salvation. So if you really want to help people, go with grace for salvation and obedience the fruit thereof.
But this isn't what you are doing. The way you package your message is that obedience is necessary to complete salvation, not evidence it.

Us embodying "it"? Your new name will be Sowrong, and you can heap all the damnation you like on yourself by "it" because I'm not about to entertain anymore of your nonsense.

The Christian way of life is really simple. Paul lays it out for us.
The milk. We need to have salvation and eternal security locked and loaded. If we have not grown in His grace and knowledge this far.....we go NOWHERE. Faith alone in Christ alone.PERIOD. Eternal security.PERIOD. We have to have this settled and rock solid. If not,it's called quenching the Spirit, and we do everything from our human strength, evil side.

We can now advance in His Grace and knowledge...study,study,study under the influence of the Spirit. 1 John 1:9 if needed.

Do not grieve the Spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit.
1 John 1:9 if we have done either of the 2 above.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

We fulfill ALL if we follow these simple steps.

God commanded His law, so that is the work of God.

Our salvation is from transgressing the Mosaic Law, so I don't see how you can deny that there is a link between them. If you grace that works are connected to faith and that faith is connected to salvation, then again I don't see how you can deny that there is a link between works and salvation. There are many verses that connect our salvation with our works, such as Hebrews 5:9, which says that Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him, Matthew 7:23, where Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, and Titus 2:11-13, which describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do those works, so there is a relationship between law and salvation. The key is to correctly understand what that link is and is not so that we can be careful to avoid interpreting the verses that speak about what that link is not as speaking against what that link is.

Indeed, obedience isn't possible apart from salvation because it is intrinsically part of what the gift of salvation is. In Titus 2:11-13, it does not not say that we will do those works as the fruit of having firs been saved, but rather it describes the content of God's gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do those works, so again doing those works is part of the gift of salvation. If someone refuses to participate in being trained by grace to do those works, then they are not being saved from not doing those works. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by saying that obedience is necessary to complete salvation, but obedience is not something that we are required to have done first in order to receive salvation. For example, if you see someone honoring their parents in obedience to God, then that is demonstrating that they are being saved from not honor their parents, not evidence of it.

Embodying a command is synonymous with living in obedience to it. To say that Jesus is God's word made flesh is to say that he is the embodiment of God's word, that he is God's word in human form, or that he is the personification of God's word. Our goal to should be to be like Christ by following his example of obedience to God's word. I'm not heaping damnation on myself for holding the position that followers of Christ should follow Christ's example of obedience to God's commands, but just the opposite.

Go do some good works already, why are you wasting so much time you when you could be not murdering because you're killing me here. I suppose that you imagine that Jesus would harangue me into believing as you do?

[1Jo 2:6 KJV] 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
[Rom 2:13-15 KJV] 13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

If we walk with Jesus, then the law will be written in our heart. We would then live without unforgiven sins. That is the new covenant.

Then why didn't Jesus tell us the work of God was to keep His commandments? He was asked by people under the law. Do you know what He told them? Magically, He didn't say keep my commandments. He said the work of God was to...BELIEVE. You can read it for yourself in John 6.
Until you understand this, you will erroneously push your salvation by works model that leads to death.

The gift of salvation is the life of Christ imparted to us. This is why eternal life is defined as knowing God and knowing Christ.

made the case that "the Law of God" refers to "the Law of Moses", though I agree that "the law" is often used to refer to categories of law other than "the Law of God/Moses", such as "works of the law" and "the law of sin". In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to to "the Law of God". In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so "works of the law" are of works while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the "work of the law" that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12.

In Romans 7, Paul said that the Law of God is good and that he wanted to do good, but contrasted that with the law of sin that was working within his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do. In Romans 7:7, Paul said that "the Law of God" is not sinful, but how we know what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease, however, in Romans 7:5, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is sinful and causes sin to increase. So verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from obeying "the Law of God" should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin, such as Romans 5:20, Romans 6:14, Galatians 2:19, Galatians 5:16-18, and 1 Corinthians 15:56. Furthermore, Paul said in Romans 7:22 that he delighted in obeying "the Law of God", so verses that are interpreted as referring to "the Law of God" should make sense for it to be referring to something that Paul delighted in doing, such as it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:5 as referring to "the Law of God" as if Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death.

In Romans 6:14, Paul described the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe "the Law of God", which is a law where holiness, righteousness, and goodness have dominion over us (Romans 7:12), but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. Furthermore, in Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and sin is the transgression of "the Law of God" (1 John 3:4), so we are still under it. God is sovereign, so we are all under His law and are obligated to refrain from sin.

Everything that God commanded in the Law of Moses is an example of how to correctly love God and our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so if you think that we should obey the greatest two commandments, then you should also think that we should obey the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Law of Moses.

Jesus expressed his faith by living in obedience to the Law of Moses, and the way to have faith in Jesus is by living in obedience to the Law of Moses, so the faith of Jesus has an identical content to faith in Jesus. While we do not earn our justification as the result of having obeyed the Law of Moses or works of the law, it is also true that only doers of the Law of God will be justified (Romans 2:13), so there must be a reason why our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as wage, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are justified does not abolish the Law of God, but rather our faith upholds (Romans 3:31).

Sorry, the faith of Christ and faith in Christ are not the same. Words are different and have different meanings. The faith of Christ which is God’s righteous is given to them that believe. That is the only way a man can be justified before a holy God.