Ephesians 6:12 A biblical perspective.

Just to lay my viewpoint out from the beginning and so you can understand where I'm coming from, I believe according to scriptures that the demons in the gospel accounts are inactive at the moment, or more accurately I believe they were cast out and are bound for future judgment, until the day of tribulation.

Yet a trend I've noticed lately which has grown stronger over the last decade or two is the assumption that Christians are battling with unseen entities or demons, please understand from my point of view people must be under the effects of hallucinogens as I and many others have seen absolutely no evidence of demons running around tormenting people.

And as with the nature of all things, verses in scripture become twisted to accommodate peoples own bias or viewpoints I realise people may think I am blinded to facts as equally as I think they are, so just some light discussion may help understand differing perspectives.

The most common go to verse that people go to prove demons are still active, I run into is.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I would like to point out if its possible, if it is indeed possible to look at something from another's perspective so we can point out the error in thinking. Is that from my perspective, this verse is innuendo, what I mean is it is not explicitly saying demons are the powers that are in fact ruling the world. It is being deduced by some that that is what the verse is saying in a round about way.

So when I say its talking about men I suppose those who oppose that notion can also say its innuendo and that its not saying men are the powers in darkness that are ruling the world?

And I would agree, we are taking our preconceived view, which should be from scripture not personal testimonies, and applying it to this verse.
I'm just saying other verses are explicit so they should hold more merit than this verse.

In my view the whole world is in darkness, just as I was before being born again, I was blind but now I see. The government where I live is secular and they make laws and regulations which definitely provide spiritual testing and personal spiritual battle

yet all authorities are still put there by God, they are in darkness and do the wrong thing morally all the time but they represent the immoral people of the world as a whole, I'm no longer a part of this world, and am a citizen of the heavenly kingdom, yet I must muck through this world for a short time.

Its another topic but even immoral people who dwell in darkness want to do the right thing and the ruling powers and authorities generally do and want to do a good job, and they do an amazing job considering.

If I am to give a exegesis on the armor of God in Eph 6, it will be practical and it would highlight how the parts of the armor will help us get through this world that dwells in darkness, its not to go and physically fight against those that disagree with us, for it has spiritual application where we can get assurance and strength and wisdom and humility to help us be lights in this world and have peace in our everyday life.

As I think Ephesians 6 was written for us for this very practical reason that we can still apply to ourselves today.

Yet I've heard messages on Eph 6 and I get no practical application from them, its about how we may not be wretched sinners but supposedly hidden beings are whispering into our ears alighting our desires and lusts and sinful nature etc etc and we must put on supernatural amour to defend ourselves against these beings.

While I do hear the odd good message most of the time I think the people giving them should be in a asylum. I guess I'm saying and I hope it does not come across to arrogant but people are missing the forest because of supposed demons in the trees.

Anyway please comment on how you see Eph 6:12, and if you have verses that could also be used would be great.

There are many more demons than those mentioned in the Gospel accounts. What Paul said in Ephesians 6 is presently a reality. Indeed all the increase in evil and wickedness within the last few years has really no other explanation than a rise in demonic activity.

That's a new one to me. I have not read anywhere in Scripture that "all" demons have been bound/cast out. Jesus certainly didn't say anything to that effect, and Paul cast demons out of people long after the events of the gospels were completed. So... methinks you have this foundation to your position in error, meaning your whole position is tottering.

Well... that's a big ass-umption... and rather insulting, I might add. I assure you, I was not under the influence of any "hallucinogens" when I battled demons. My former pastor was not under the influence of "hallucinogens" when he battled demons... multiple times. You're zero for two so far.


Some light discussion, like, "You're dead wrong"?

Um, no, the verse is directly saying that evil spiritual forces are at work. Note that the verse doesn't say, "demons".

It sounds like you got mixed up here.


Against what?


What colour is the sky in your world?


Ephesians 6 is indeed very practical, but if you think it's about battling humans or human governments, you missed the point clearly stated in verse 12: "we battle not against flesh and blood".


I have commented. I probably offended you in the process, but since you're happy to broadbrush people with accusations of using drugs, I'd say we're on level ground here.

But I expect things to wax worse and worse without demonic activity?

Just to lay my viewpoint out from the beginning and so you can understand where I'm coming from, I believe according to scriptures that the demons in the gospel accounts are inactive at the moment, or more accurately I believe they were cast out and are bound for future judgment, until the day of tribulation.

Yet a trend I've noticed lately which has grown stronger over the last decade or two is the assumption that Christians are battling with unseen entities or demons, please understand from my point of view people must be under the effects of hallucinogens as I and many others have seen absolutely no evidence of demons running around tormenting people.

And as with the nature of all things, verses in scripture become twisted to accommodate peoples own bias or viewpoints I realise people may think I am blinded to facts as equally as I think they are, so just some light discussion may help understand differing perspectives.

The most common go to verse that people go to prove demons are still active, I run into is.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I would like to point out if its possible, if it is indeed possible to look at something from another's perspective so we can point out the error in thinking. Is that from my perspective, this verse is innuendo, what I mean is it is not explicitly saying demons are the powers that are in fact ruling the world. It is being deduced by some that that is what the verse is saying in a round about way.

So when I say its talking about men I suppose those who oppose that notion can also say its innuendo and that its not saying men are the powers in darkness that are ruling the world?

And I would agree, we are taking our preconceived view, which should be from scripture not personal testimonies, and applying it to this verse.
I'm just saying other verses are explicit so they should hold more merit than this verse.

In my view the whole world is in darkness, just as I was before being born again, I was blind but now I see. The government where I live is secular and they make laws and regulations which definitely provide spiritual testing and personal spiritual battle, yet all authorities are still put there by God, they are in darkness and do the wrong thing morally all the time but they represent the immoral people of the world as a whole, I'm no longer a part of this world, and am a citizen of the heavenly kingdom, yet I must muck through this world for a short time.

Its another topic but even immoral people who dwell in darkness want to do the right thing and the ruling powers and authorities generally do and want to do a good job, and they do an amazing job considering.

If I am to give a exegesis on the armor of God in Eph 6, it will be practical and it would highlight how the parts of the armor will help us get through this world that dwells in darkness, its not to go and physically fight against those that disagree with us, for it has spiritual application where we can get assurance and strength and wisdom and humility to help us be lights in this world and have peace in our everyday life.

As I think Ephesians 6 was written for us for this very practical reason that we can still apply to ourselves today.

Yet I've heard messages on Eph 6 and I get no practical application from them, its about how we may not be wretched sinners but supposedly hidden beings are whispering into our ears alighting our desires and lusts and sinful nature etc etc and we must put on supernatural amour to defend ourselves against these beings.

While I do hear the odd good message most of the time I think the people giving them should be in a asylum. I guess I'm saying and I hope it does not come across to arrogant but people are missing the forest because of supposed demons in the trees.

Anyway please comment on how you see Eph 6:12, and if you have verses that could also be used would be great.

Well obviously someone is deceiving you about this matter. Read this:
The Truth Behind the Rise in Demon-Influenced Activity
https://www.thetrumpet.com/14562-the-truth-behind-the-rise-in-demon-influenced-activity

The first red flag for me is that fact Catholic priests are part of the ones reporting the huge increase in demonic activity, the second red flag is they are talking about actual possessions like on the movie exorcist, so that does not really show to me how the world is becoming more evil as a result of evil spirits.

2pet 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast hem down to hades and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment.

5. and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah one of eight people.

I see this verse as black and white and rather specific, it says, the angels who sinned, it says, none were spared, they are now bound,

I honestly see no difference in you saying the bible does not say all the people drowned who were not in the ark, yet to me that is exactly what the bible says none were spared except Noah and those on the ark??


I could be wrong it happens, someone may show me how?


exactly my point




Sorry didn't mean to offend at all, while I do find it incredulous what some people believe yet I try and tip toe round the issue, I guess I have clumsy feet.

Just to lay my viewpoint out from the beginning and so you can understand where I'm coming from, I believe according to scriptures that the demons in the gospel accounts are inactive at the moment, or more accurately I believe they were cast out and are bound for future judgment, until the day of tribulation.

Yet a trend I've noticed lately which has grown stronger over the last decade or two is the assumption that Christians are battling with unseen entities or demons, please understand from my point of view people must be under the effects of hallucinogens as I and many others have seen absolutely no evidence of demons running around tormenting people.

And as with the nature of all things, verses in scripture become twisted to accommodate peoples own bias or viewpoints I realise people may think I am blinded to facts as equally as I think they are, so just some light discussion may help understand differing perspectives.

The most common go to verse that people go to prove demons are still active, I run into is.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I would like to point out if its possible, if it is indeed possible to look at something from another's perspective so we can point out the error in thinking. Is that from my perspective, this verse is innuendo, what I mean is it is not explicitly saying demons are the powers that are in fact ruling the world. It is being deduced by some that that is what the verse is saying in a round about way.

So when I say its talking about men I suppose those who oppose that notion can also say its innuendo and that its not saying men are the powers in darkness that are ruling the world?

And I would agree, we are taking our preconceived view, which should be from scripture not personal testimonies, and applying it to this verse.
I'm just saying other verses are explicit so they should hold more merit than this verse.

In my view the whole world is in darkness, just as I was before being born again, I was blind but now I see. The government where I live is secular and they make laws and regulations which definitely provide spiritual testing and personal spiritual battle, yet all authorities are still put there by God, they are in darkness and do the wrong thing morally all the time but they represent the immoral people of the world as a whole, I'm no longer a part of this world, and am a citizen of the heavenly kingdom, yet I must muck through this world for a short time.

Its another topic but even immoral people who dwell in darkness want to do the right thing and the ruling powers and authorities generally do and want to do a good job, and they do an amazing job considering.

If I am to give a exegesis on the armor of God in Eph 6, it will be practical and it would highlight how the parts of the armor will help us get through this world that dwells in darkness, its not to go and physically fight against those that disagree with us, for it has spiritual application where we can get assurance and strength and wisdom and humility to help us be lights in this world and have peace in our everyday life.

As I think Ephesians 6 was written for us for this very practical reason that we can still apply to ourselves today.

Yet I've heard messages on Eph 6 and I get no practical application from them, its about how we may not be wretched sinners but supposedly hidden beings are whispering into our ears alighting our desires and lusts and sinful nature etc etc and we must put on supernatural amour to defend ourselves against these beings.

While I do hear the odd good message most of the time I think the people giving them should be in a asylum. I guess I'm saying and I hope it does not come across to arrogant but people are missing the forest because of supposed demons in the trees.

Anyway please comment on how you see Eph 6:12, and if you have verses that could also be used would be great.

The only RED FLAG in Your twisted thinking is ----Y_O_U_



I say -----RUN FOREST RUN---- Folks from digesting any words that Clayman is spewing out about his belief in demons in this present world ----What he is saying is from SATAN ---- NOT GOD -----he is spreading False Doctrine ---Satan is a person and he and his tribe are very much active in this world --

Satan is still the god of this world until Jesus comes back and defeats him once and for all ------and that is very Scriptural -----Satan's only job is to keep people away from God and His Word and instill fear --doubt and unbelief and he is having a hay day with Clayman -----

I forgive you.

2 Peter 2:4 says the angels who sinned were cast down; it doesn't say 'demons'.

What an ungracious and unloving response

I t does not use the word demons, but with Rev 12:3-4 we can see the timing of the angels that fell, after Israel was seen with child(speaking of Jesus the coming Messiah) then the angels were cast down to earth, then in the gospel accounts and in acts, we have demonic activity which I believe is the fallen angels.

Then these angels that sinned and were on the earth at the time of Christ were cast out into hades according to Jude and 2 Peter, also demons in the tribulation are released according to Revelation to Rev 9, again it does not use the word demons in Revelation but I've never heard anyone disagree that demons are released before?

Also they had as their king the angel of the bottomless pit who to me is Satan

As Satan is an angel that sinned and all the angels that sinned are cast down into hades, you have to at least acknowledge he is cast out according to 2Pet 2:4 For none of the angels that sinned were spared?

Also if you make the angels and demons into two differing groups you have to make the demons appear from somewhere and how did they also end up in the pit if they are released during the tribulation period?

NO --------this is the true response ---your denying and twisting Scripture to suit your own agenda ----this is very --very dangerous of you to do this ---and this false Belief has to be addressed so others are aware of what the Scripture really says ----about Satan and his demons -----

God gives HIS PEOPLE Instructions to keep Satan from Attacking your mind ------you would do good to Read some of God's Word -----who is Jesus ---by the way and pay attention to what Jesus says ---who is the Word -------- Stop this nonsense your spewing out -----

Satan is a PERSON ----NOT A THING and so are his TRIBE ---they are real and there are working in people's minds every minute of everyday ------to keep them in doubt --fear and unbelief -----and away from God and your doing the same by spewing out Lies and False Doctrine -------

AS SOON as you wake up in the Morning ---your in a SPIRITUAL WAR IN YOUR MIND -----WHO will WIN YOUR SOUL TODAY ------


When Satan Attack Your Mind Scriptures To Quote That Opposes Satan Lies

https://www.openbible.info/topics/when_satan_attack_your_mind_scriptures_to_quote_that_opposes_satan_lies

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Read and WEEP ------pay attention to NUMBER 3-------your denial of Satan is FALSE DOCTRINE and is DANGEROUS TEACHING -------


https://www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-Satan-attack.html
Why does God allow Satan to attack us?

Satan’s attacks against us come in various forms. 1) He uses the ungodly world (which he controls, 1 John 5:19) to stir up fleshly lusts within us that tempt us to sin.

2) He uses the unbelieving world to attempt to deceive us with worldly “wisdom” opposed to God’s truth.

3) He uses false Christians to try to mislead us into a false gospel centered on a false Jesus.

4) He sometimes physically afflicts us or our loved ones with sickness, crime, tragedy, or persecution. Knowing that God is the sovereign Ruler of the universe, we naturally ask, why does God allow Satan to attack us in these ways?

While I don't necessarily hold to this idea, I have heard that 'demons' are the disembodied spirits of the hybrid creatures born from the union between the sons of God (divine entities) and human women. Upon physical death (whether in the flood or by other means), these creatures become the demons that plague Christians and keep non-believers from becoming Christians.

I would encourage you to read the late Michael S. Heiser's book The Unseen Realm for further study on the subject.

The other thing that crops up is people want to blame their own sin on Satan,

The Satan subject is a hard one to explain to people

The Satan subject is a hard one to explain to people, the error people have fallen into is generally the difference between God using metaphor over literal for greater depth and meaning, and even trying to explain to people how language works and how God designed language including English, is a hard one as I'm pretty much un schooled. Then there is showing to people what Satan was and did throughout the Old Testament and Gospel accounts so people don't think all he did was roam around trying to thwart God's will by putting telekinetic thoughts into peoples minds.

The other thing that crops up is people want to blame their own sin on Satan, attribute there own problems to Satan and make him the scape goat for their own personal faults. They try and present a picture of we have to listen to God or listen to Satan.

Yet to me we have two choices not God and Satan, but God and world/self ironically Satan also had a choice and he chose the world, the highest of all God creatures loved the world and rejected Christ.

People where I live when they feel betrayed especially by a friend will call that person Judas, Judas is the ultimate example of betrayal for its a well known story known by most.
God does the same thing with Satan, Satan is the ultimate example or pattern of choosing self over Jesus and is sometimes used metaphorically throughout the New Testament.

For example when Jesus rebuked Peter by saying "get behind me Satan" it was because Peter was opposing Gods will of Jesus going to the cross, Not because Satan was there telekinetically putting the idea into Peter's head.

And I end up using language the same way God does, My kids also believe the stronger man(Jesus) came and bound the strong man(Satan) so he could plunder the goods(you and me friend) in his house(the world)

So when they go off to far away places with their sports teams to towns of ill repute, I say to them do not let Satan get you, and they know exactly what I'm meaning, choose God over self/sin.

Which I think should be everyone's understanding from reading the bible, ironically I think people who believe as I do insulate themselves more from sin and understand the insidious nature of it.

You keep telling me Satan attacks the mind, but scripture tells me

James 1:14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

People keep saying we choose to follow God's will or Satan's will, yet the two masters the bible presents are God and money/self

Matt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

Logically what you say makes zero sense to me, if Satan attacks the mind and puts the thought into my head to eat that chocolate bar and I have to choose to follow his leading or not is exactly the same as if I thought to myself hmm I would love to eat that chocolate bar, I would still have to choose to eat it or not. To me Satan currently bound makes zero difference, the only difference I see if one believes Satan is putting the thoughts into ones head, they are making excuse for their own sins for its our own lusts that entice us.

1john 2:15Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

We are to judge the angels. How are we to judge them if they are not influencing us?

Satan is pleased if we think he is not influencing us....we are not witnesses for God in satans final judgement. satan is completely content for believers to think he is not around us. We won't be able to participate in his final judgement.

But I do agree with you that satan gets way too much credit for our failures and sins. satan is not interested in getting us to sin and being immoral......he is interested in us acting independently from God.

This world is actually an embarrassment to satans 'leadership.' He wants to make this world work, everybody gets along, peace on earth. He wants to be like the most High, yet independent from God. satan is not "omni" anything so he uses systems to try to control us,because he can't control our flesh and freewill.

This is where satan deceives the whole world. He isn't some raging, sin all you want freak. He is the greatest creature ever created and wants to be like the most high. Don't be deceived that he is not around, he wants you to think that......because he is part of GODS plan.