Finding out if date is a virgin, married, has children

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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
1,795
113
#21
That topic shouldn't be discussed on the first date. It should be long BEFORE that when the two are just friends. If you talk about such important topics on the first date, you haven't done your homework!


🏄🏻‍♀️
I suppose it depends on how the date was set up. If it were a blind date, the couple might not talk beforehand.

The marriage and children questions aren't as touchy as the virginity question. Asking someone if they are a virgin might seem strange or rude, but maybe more uncomfortable for nonvirgin singles than for virgins.

Then there is the issue that to a Christian who says he/she has said he/she has never been married, "Do you have children?" might be considered a rude question, but so many singles have had children these days.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
16,683
5,601
113
#22
I suppose it depends on how the date was set up. If it were a blind date, the couple might not talk beforehand.

The marriage and children questions aren't as touchy as the virginity question. Asking someone if they are a virgin might seem strange or rude, but maybe more uncomfortable for nonvirgin singles than for virgins.

Then there is the issue that to a Christian who says he/she has said he/she has never been married, "Do you have children?" might be considered a rude question, but so many singles have had children these days.
The virginity question also opens a can of worms a lot of people won't want to hear or consider.

What if the person isn't a virgin, but it's due to abuse, crime, or incest? This is just my own view but if this affected me, there's no way I would want to talk about this on a first date -- or even the 10th. The only other option is for the person to lie and say they are a virgin (and they might see themselves as a virgin because they don't count/want to move past the abuse or try to forget it.)

And when we get down to the nitty gritty, what counts as the definition of a virgin?

I went through a very long time in my life (probably 20 years,) where people were constantly opening up to me about the sexual abuse they'd suffered. It was a very emotionally tough time for me, because I was always distraught in my prayers as to how I could possibly help or give these people hope.

If a man was sexually abused continuously by his uncle as a boy and young teen, but has never had a sexual experience outside of those incidences, does he now tell his dates that he is a virgin?

If a woman was date raped in college but had no other sexual contact, will her potential dates count that as virginity?

I think the most tragic thing is that stories like this are a lot more common than many would think.

In the Singles Forum, there have been several rounds of "I MUST Marry a Virgin" (even when one is not a virgin themselves, and the general consensus is that there are some who won't make any exceptions, not even for abuse. And I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong, I'm just saying it's up to what God wants for them.

However, the "Are you a virgin?" interrogation becomes VERY complicated because it might be dancing around extremely sensitive issues someone might not feel comfortable talking about for a good long time - let alone in the first few months of dating.

This puts the person being questioned in a very unfair position - do they owe it to someone, especially if they're still pretty much a stranger, to go into these heart-wrenching details?

And if not, what do they say? If they just say no, the person will automatically assume they've lived some horrible sinful life while automatically shouting, "NEXT!"

And if they decide to claim they are still a virgin but then "come clean" later on, the other person is going to feel betrayed and may decide they can't trust this person.

Either way, everyone is set up to lose.
 
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Gojira

Guest
#24
God can probably do better than that.
God created a universe. Of course He could. That means I shouldn't ask? Will everything in Heaven have to be on equal levels of amazing?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,073
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#25
God created a universe. Of course He could. That means I shouldn't ask? Will everything in Heaven have to be on equal levels of amazing?
Nope. God loves the unimaginative too.
 

Genipher

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2019
2,300
1,715
113
#26
Married my husband 20 years ago.
We met online and since both of us were seriously looking for a spouse, we agreed no question was off limits. Virginity was a topic we brought up pretty early (we both were).

I think if a couple is serious about finding a husband or wife and not playing games, this question shouldn't be taboo.

Nowadays singles probably have to ask if the other person is "biologically male or female", as well. sigh.
 
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Gojira

Guest
#27
Nope. God loves the unimaginative too.
Bugs is many things, but unimaginative is not one of them :D

Imagine... you're walking down a street made of transparent gold, when all of a sudden.. *OOMPF!* You just walked into a wall painted like an entrance.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,073
6,880
113
62
#28
Bugs is many things, but unimaginative is not one of them :D

Imagine... you're walking down a street made of transparent gold, when all of a sudden.. *OOMPF!* You just walked into a wall painted like an entrance.
Wouldn't that be more like Wile E. Coyote? Meep meep.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
1,795
113
#29
The virginity question also opens a can of worms a lot of people won't want to hear or consider.

What if the person isn't a virgin, but it's due to abuse, crime, or incest? This is just my own view but if this affected me, there's no way I would want to talk about this on a first date -- or even the 10th. The only other option is for the person to lie and say they are a virgin (and they might see themselves as a virgin because they don't count/want to move past the abuse or try to forget it.)

And when we get down to the nitty gritty, what counts as the definition of a virgin?

I went through a very long time in my life (probably 20 years,) where people were constantly opening up to me about the sexual abuse they'd suffered. It was a very emotionally tough time for me, because I was always distraught in my prayers as to how I could possibly help or give these people hope.

If a man was sexually abused continuously by his uncle as a boy and young teen, but has never had a sexual experience outside of those incidences, does he now tell his dates that he is a virgin?

If a woman was date raped in college but had no other sexual contact, will her potential dates count that as virginity?

I think the most tragic thing is that stories like this are a lot more common than many would think.

In the Singles Forum, there have been several rounds of "I MUST Marry a Virgin" (even when one is not a virgin themselves, and the general consensus is that there are some who won't make any exceptions, not even for abuse. And I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong, I'm just saying it's up to what God wants for them.

However, the "Are you a virgin?" interrogation becomes VERY complicated because it might be dancing around extremely sensitive issues someone might not feel comfortable talking about for a good long time - let alone in the first few months of dating.

This puts the person being questioned in a very unfair position - do they owe it to someone, especially if they're still pretty much a stranger, to go into these heart-wrenching details?

And if not, what do they say? If they just say no, the person will automatically assume they've lived some horrible sinful life while automatically shouting, "NEXT!"

And if they decide to claim they are still a virgin but then "come clean" later on, the other person is going to feel betrayed and may decide they can't trust this person.

Either way, everyone is set up to lose.
That is a very good explanation of why the virginiyy issue on a first date could be messy, beyond the issue of fornication. Date rape and child abuse are far too common.

Btw, if a woman was raped, she wouldn't be a virgin, but other stuff? It can be a painful issue. But then if someone is looking just for a virgin, no exceptions and he/she breaks up it off after 20 dates? That could be more painful.

One poster elsewhere wanted a man who had never been exposed to porn. More poeer to her if she can find him, but who would want to discuss that on a first date also?

Marriage and children are much less sticky topics.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
1,795
113
#30
Wouldn't that be more like Wile E. Coyote? Meep meep.
I was just thinking the roadrunner being there, never having the satisfaction of the coyote eating him would be mental torture like the old cartoon was. Why couldn't he ever kill and eat that annoying roadrunner? But killing in the afterlife doesn't sound appropriate either
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
1,795
113
#31
I was in a Bible study overseas, and a single white southern fellow there was attracted to a single Nigerian woman. During some kitchen prep before the Bible study, which involved a recipe that contained olive oil, he asked her if she were olive oil would she be extra virgin or dark and fruity. After some laughtwr she said dark and fruity. That was a clever way to ask.

This was decades ago and I think the man never married though, so aside from the humor and the anecdote it was a wasted question.
 
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Gojira

Guest
#33
I was just thinking the roadrunner being there, never having the satisfaction of the coyote eating him would be mental torture like the old cartoon was. Why couldn't he ever kill and eat that annoying roadrunner? But killing in the afterlife doesn't sound appropriate either
They'd chase each other for fun.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,278
2,556
113
#34
As someone successfully married ...

"Water finds its own level"

A person's spouse or prospective spouse needs to be on the same level of sexual activity experience. That can be whatever level you are. The range is of course virgin to a 5 digit body count. (Single digits are single digits)

But it goes well beyond that one thing.
I really don't have in depth discussions about physical intimacy with anyone other than my wife. I'm not going to either. But some people do...and find some sort of enjoyment out of it. But...my wife was never a phone sex operator or adult fiction writer either.

With today's internet marketing....one of those OnlyFans accounts or Instagram accounts or even a YouTube account can be problematic for young women to find a suitable guy who is on their same page. A few written lines of discussion on a forum is one thing....but being a "cam girl" is a whole nuther thing. Where is she going to find a guy that has had similar life experiences?

Then there's those who have been abused physically or sexually....let's just say that this is a mess in every way possible in my experience and knowledge. From chronic victim hood to being a perpetrator themselves....it's going to be an uphill battle to have a normal healthy marital relationship with anyone. (Again not everyone should have that)

What people really should want versus what they should direct their focus towards are two very different things.
The guys who claim they only want a virgin...have they ever had a pornography habit? The two are related....and make things as such that that might not be the water level they are at anymore.


The first objective of any relationship is to be friends. To get along...to platonically emotionally stimulate....to get happy when they show up just to talk. It's an important step that can't be skipped on the way to forming an emotional relationship that has romance.

And the guys who get angry because the women "wasted their time" by not being a virgin? They don't have the ability to have a normal relationship....yet. They might one day...but it's not today.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
1,795
113
#36
As someone successfully married
And the guys who get angry because the women "wasted their time" by not being a virgin? They don't have the ability to have a normal relationship....yet. They might one day...but it's not today.
I hadn't thought of this as an issue of anger. One doesn't want to waste one's own time, but dating also involves the time and emotional energy of other people.

I haven't read any Jane Austen novels, and I just read whatever amount of Dickens was required for high school, but I saw the movie. :) Back in the 1800's, men discussing the young women/girls they would meet at social gatherings would discuss whether they young women had formed an 'attachment' to them, trying to prevent it if they weren't interested in the young women, having some regard for their feelings.

I think it is good for a man to have a sense of that, trying not to lead a girl on, get her hopes up really high, then dashing them to pieces. Back in the 1800's, the English having 'boyfriends' or 'girlfriends' the way we do wasn't really the thing. Young singles gathered at social gatherings, were invited to dinner Sunday afternoon, went to balls, the men visited the women in their homes, but there were chaperoned (at least in the movies) until the man proposes marriage. And 'attachments' could still be formed, without the man realizing it. How much more in a dating situation?

But at a certain age, the feeling of having one's time wasted would have to be an issue, too. I'm thinking during late 20's to early 30's this becomes an issue, depending on the culture and the individual.

And dating someone who is just into dating and not really marriage is another issue. There seem to be a lot of those in the US. With living together being so popular, marriage is less often the end game for a lot of individuals, male or female.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,278
2,556
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#37
I hadn't thought of this as an issue of anger. One doesn't want to waste one's own time, but dating also involves the time and emotional energy of other people.

I haven't read any Jane Austen novels, and I just read whatever amount of Dickens was required for high school, but I saw the movie. :) Back in the 1800's, men discussing the young women/girls they would meet at social gatherings would discuss whether they young women had formed an 'attachment' to them, trying to prevent it if they weren't interested in the young women, having some regard for their feelings.

I think it is good for a man to have a sense of that, trying not to lead a girl on, get her hopes up really high, then dashing them to pieces. Back in the 1800's, the English having 'boyfriends' or 'girlfriends' the way we do wasn't really the thing. Young singles gathered at social gatherings, were invited to dinner Sunday afternoon, went to balls, the men visited the women in their homes, but there were chaperoned (at least in the movies) until the man proposes marriage. And 'attachments' could still be formed, without the man realizing it. How much more in a dating situation?

But at a certain age, the feeling of having one's time wasted would have to be an issue, too. I'm thinking during late 20's to early 30's this becomes an issue, depending on the culture and the individual.

And dating someone who is just into dating and not really marriage is another issue. There seem to be a lot of those in the US. With living together being so popular, marriage is less often the end game for a lot of individuals, male or female.
What the heathen do isn't exactly relevant to what's being discussed. I know that in today's society the line between "Believer" and "heathen" is getting to be somewhat blurry due to the constant erasing and redrawing of the line....

Christian singles are not supposed to be "shacking up". Just saying....it's not really something that is supposed to be going on or promoted. Trial marriages is like trial death. There really is not a good way to accomplish that.

Dating is dating...it's supposed to have a purpose and focus in mind. But that doesn't mean that these people actively have the right focus when "dating".

It's not supposed to be all about romance. It's supposed to be all about friendship while dating. Sure you might be interested in getting married...but putting romance in front of friendship is a great way to be miserable no matter what comes of a relationship.

Excluding friendships simply because you only desire friendships with "virgins" as all other friendships are a waste of "time" is kinda judgemental. Where excluding non-Christians from friendships is considered normal (nothing in common to begin with) excluding those who have had previous mistakes from being a friend means that you will truly have none.

And the cuts of a friend are more sure than the kisses from an enemy.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
16,683
5,601
113
#38
That is a very good explanation of why the virginiyy issue on a first date could be messy, beyond the issue of fornication. Date rape and child abuse are far too common.
Btw, if a woman was raped, she wouldn't be a virgin, but other stuff? It can be a painful issue. But then if someone is looking just for a virgin, no exceptions and he/she breaks up it off after 20 dates? That could be more painful.
One poster elsewhere wanted a man who had never been exposed to porn. More poeer to her if she can find him, but who would want to discuss that on a first date also?
Marriage and children are much less sticky topics.
The other unfortunate thing is that the entire definition of "virginity" is in a way, compromised in today's world.

I have read about abusers (such as in a household situation) who abuse girls in ways that involve everything but "regular" sex because they don't want to risk their female victim getting pregnant. But yet this woman has been exposed to a myriad of sexual things, many times. So, is she still a virgin?

And if it's a case of a woman abusing another women or men abusing men, as mentioned in my other post, it becomes even more muddled. I've talked with guys whose abusers were all men. In some cases, they've done "everything" sexual -- except be with a woman. Again, is he a virgin as well?

But what if we flip it around and look at situations where the crime, abuse, or incest isn't involved, but rather, regular people making their own choices. If you are a single conservative Christian, you hear a lot of crazy beliefs (at least I have.)

For instance, I've met a lot of people who claim Christianity but see nothing wrong with drugs that are "derived from plants, because God made plants, so they can't be sinful." I don't condemn others who think this but personally I am against recreational drugs (if they can be used medicinally -- without addiction -- I'm open to that.)

So one of the other things you'll hear is that many self-proclaimed Christians will be out doing sexual things and racking up "body counts" of people they are doing this with -- but since it's not "regular" sex, involving the act that could result in pregnancy, they'll still claim to be virgins or even "celibate."

I'm at an age where it's highly unlikely I'll find a virgin male (not impossible, but I like to be realistic,) so it's not one of my requirements. But at the same time, what if I met a guy who was divorced (with Biblical reason) but was out having "personal" encounters with women that isn't "technically" "real" sex, but produces the same results (sexual relief) -- and he presents himself as "celibate"?

This is one of the reasons I pretty much gave up on the dating scene.

It's hard enough to find a Christian, let alone one who believes the same definitions of right and wrong.
 

MsMediator

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2022
1,162
767
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#39
And dating someone who is just into dating and not really marriage is another issue. There seem to be a lot of those in the US. With living together being so popular, marriage is less often the end game for a lot of individuals, male or female.
Before, people actively pursued marriage. There was more societal and family pressure to get married. Now, the attitude is more "if it happens, it happens". There is no stigma whatsoever on living together before marriage, out of wedlock babies, etc. Basically it is only the religious who stay virgins until marriage. Even if they lived together or a Christian girl gets pregnant, no one really cares too much. As for someone who is just into dating, a lot of Christians take this attitude to see if there is a real connection instead of taking a fast track route to marriage.
 
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Gojira

Guest
#40
I'm told I have the gift of confusion.
Oh, people call me Daffy, they say that I am gooney. Just because I'm happy is no sign I'm Looney Tuney.

When they call me nutsy, that sure gives me a pain. Please pass the ketchup, I think it's going to rain.

Oh, you can't bounce a meatball, though try with all your might. Turn on the radio, I want to fly a kite!

Good evening, frieeeeeeeends...