What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

Then what about election? Sorry, I must be missing something.

None of us are OT prophets. I am not sure why you seem to keep overlooking the distinction between an ability to choose and free will. Do you think they are the same thing? That any can choose what colour of socks to wear does not equate to a dead person having the ability to choose to be alive. Man is a slave to sin; dead in his trespasses and sins. God made us alive while we were yet sinners... He circumcises our hearts so we can love Him. Before that we are hostile in our minds toward Him. Total depravity affirms that every fiber of man's being is contaminated and affected by sin - his mind, will, and emotions. Many think this doctrine is taught only by Calvinists, but it is ubiquitous throughout Christianity, being present also in Arminian and Molinist teachings. The Bible teaches this on the will: there is God's will, and there is man's will. Man's will is either aligned with God's, or it is not, and without faith, one cannot please God. Scripture teaches that man lives "in the lusts of his flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and [is] by nature [a child] of wrath, even as the rest." All suppressed the truths of God for lies and had exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling man. There are none righteous, all have gone astray. More could be said, I am sure, but I will just add this: many do not discuss heart circumcision, which is a shame. When it happens is a whole 'nother thing. Some believe we are saved even apart from faith. I do not agree with that... but it is complex.

Then what about election? Sorry, I must be missing something.

The biblical election have already been justified; yet they still need to believe in Jesus Christ.

… but we all have to believe the Gospel, we all have to believe in Jesus Christ. We all must make that choice.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

- John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

- John 3:16

This is true. God makes that possible. A dead person cannot make that choice. A dead person never makes/
is incapable of making that choice. Their will is not free. It is in bondage to sin, due to fear of death.


Jesus’ words in John 6:65

When someone is justified by grace, they've been saved. Justified means to be made just - as in their sins have been forgiven. Made just in God's eyes, not man's.

It comes down to equal privilege and equal opportunity. He leaves not one person out. Everyone who ever lives is going to get their BEST chance at salvation. We choose it or we reject it.

We can debate the nuances of it. But nobody is left out in His plan of salvation for mankind.

In John 6:65, you have the election:

"But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

- John 6:64-65

I agree with some of this. Romans 1 clearly states that everyone can know of the existence of God through both creation and conscience. But knowing about God isn't the same as knowing God. For that, one must be born again.
Another thing is that fairness isn't an attribute of God. While God is just, He doesn't deal with people equally. Some are poor and some are rich. Some come from Christian homes. Some from Muslim homes. The common denominator is...nothing is impossible for God.

But what you are blind to is the fact that if ALL would obey the Gospel, all would be justified by grace through faith.

What do you make of Isaiah 63:11?

I agree with some of this. Romans 1 clearly states that everyone can know of the existence of God through both creation and conscience. But knowing about God isn't the same as knowing God. For that, one must be born again.
Another thing is that fairness isn't an attribute of God. While God is just, He doesn't deal with people equally. Some are poor and some are rich. Some come from Christian homes. Some from Muslim homes. The common denominator is...nothing is impossible for God.

What do you make of Isaiah 63:11?

What I think we have to keep in mind is the fact that it was very different for the OT saints. God was in their midst. He was physically with them at times. He was parting seas for them. He was raining down manna.He was raining down meat. He was burning bushes and talking. He was giving many signs and wonders.

We take Him at His word. I know he still works wonders. But we get to know Him through His word to us. IMO, that is why we have differences from OT to NT.

It says...where is He that put His Holy Spirit within him?
What does that mean?
And how does an OT saint get saved?
Was Jesus the way, the truth, and the life for them?
Were OT saints born again?
I will grant you it was different for OT saints. But how? Difference or difference in degree?

I don't really know what you mean? The Holy Spirit was in their midst at times and wasn't at other times.

IMO it was very similar to the Church. 1 John 1:9 and He would return to them. Fellowship. Not a salvation issue.

We don't have to "know" God to trust in the Gospel. The Gospel is offered to the World......All mankind.

We have to understand that we are sinners and in need of salvation. And trust in Christ and His work on the Cross for our salvation.

When we are born-again and filled with the Spirit, then we can start learning about God and grow in His Grace and knowledge.

In His salvation of man He is fair/Just. The way He gets an individual to the point of choosing or not is different for all. And I think He is fair. It's just different for people. Some are soft quiet people and a gentle nudge is fair for them. Some are block heads and a near death experience is fair for them.

They were saved by obeying God's word.OT saints obtained the word of God. So called they have faith in God.

Obedience saves or faith?

Salvation is not out of ourselves. Obedience and faith don't save.

That doesn't mean we cannot be saved with them, but was Job safe from Satan? And he didn't do much wrongdoing.