Can the church survive without the Holy Spirit.

We need to distnguish between "the Church" (all the redeemed) and churches. In many churches tjere may be simply professing Christians.

to me, the only "real" churches are churches in which every attendee is a born again Christian, the pastor is born again & is teaching from the word of God only & the church constantly seeks the truth of God. by course, 1st time visitors may not be even believers or born again but hopefully they will be saved.

No Holy Spirit, No God—No God, No Church.

—selah

The "VISIBLE CHURCH" can, and in many cases DOES survive without the Holy Spirit as a "Social Club".

Without the Holy Spirit the GENUINE catholic (Small "c") church doesn't exist.

wise answer

Everyone is making this complicated. We are saved by faith in Jesus!!!!!!!

The Holy Spirit's fingerprints can be found from Genesis to Revelation. He is the third Person of the Triune Godhead. His power and influence are made clear throughout the Bible. He is a distinct person in the Godhead. His titles, offices, and work support this argument. It shows Him to be a Divine Entity, equal in power and glory with the Father and Son concerning the creation, and man’s salvation. His work is both ordinary, and extraordinary. This by immediate inspiration, and by His regeneration, and sanctifying influences. He will inform us and remind us that we are the children of God.

He dwells with us, teaches and brings to remembrance; bears witness convinces of sin, guides, speaks, declares, inspires speaking through the Scriptures, sends out workers, forbids specific actions, intercedes,

He has had and continues to have intercourse with many. He dwells in the disciples as a Comforter, Counselor, and Advocate (teacher) to recall the things Jesus taught, testify of Jesus, and reprove the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

He guides the disciples of Christ into all truths; will not speak of Himself, but only that which He hears from above, reveals events to come, and glorifies the Lord by showing the things of Christ.

Names and titles applied to the Holy Ghost.

His personality and Divinity, and His co-operation in the work of redemption, with the Father and Son.
He is called: see my next post.

He is called,

1. Holy Ghost: Mark 12:36. Luke 1:15, John 7:39, and many other places, Matthew 1:18, "She (Mary) was found with child of the Holy Ghost."

2. Holy Spirit: Isaiah 63:10-11, Luke 11:13, Ephesians 1:13, 1 Thessalonians 4:8, Psalms 51:11, "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me."

3. Holy Spirit of God: Ephesians 4:30, "grieve not the Holy Spirit of God."

4. The Spirit: Genesis 1:2, 41:38. Exodus 31:3. Job 27:3. Matthew 3:16, Romans 8:9, and so also a large number of passages in both the Old and New Testaments. Romans 8:14, "as many as are led by the Spirit of God."

5. The Spirit of the Lord. Isaiah 11:2, 59:19, 2 Corinthians 3:17, Acts 5:9, "How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord?"

6. The Spirit of the Lord God. Isaiah 61:1. Luke 4:18, Jesus said, "The Spirit of the LORD is upon me."

7. The Spirit of the Father. Matthew 10:20, "The Spirit of the Father which speaks in you."

8. The Spirit of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:19, "The supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ."

9. The Spirit of Christ. Romans 8:9. 1 Peter 1:11, "The Spirit of Christ which was in them."

10. The Spirit of the Son. Galatians 4:6, "God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son."

11. The Eternal Spirit. Hebrews 9:14, "Who through the Eternal Spirit offered Himself."

12. The Free Spirit. Psalms 51:12, "Uphold me with thy free (generous) Spirit."

13. The Good Spirit. Nehemiah 9:20, "Thou gavest also thy good Spirit to instruct them."

14. The seven Spirits of God, Revelation 1:4, "The seven Spirits which are before His throne."

15. The Voice (the voice of the Spirit) of the Almighty. Ezekiel 1:24, "Like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty."

16. The Voice of the Lord. Isaiah 6:8. Genesis 3:8. Deuteronomy 4:30, 8:20, "Ye would not be obedient unto the Voice of the LORD your God."

17. My Spirit: Thy Spirit: His Spirit: Genesis 6:3, "My Spirit shall not always strive with man." Joel 2:28. Isaiah 42:1, 44:3. Psalms 104:30, and many other places. 1 John 4:13, "He hath given us of His Spirit."

18. The Spirit of Adoption. Romans 8:15, "Ye have received the Spirit of adoption."

19. The Spirit of burning. Isaiah 4:4, "Purged the blood of Jerusalem -- by the Spirit of burning."

20. "The Spirit of counsel." Isaiah 11:2.
21. "The Spirit of faith," 2 Corinthians 4:134.
22. "The Spirit of the fear of the LORD." Isaiah 11:2.
23. "The Spirit of Glory." 1 Peter 4:14.
24. "The Spirit of Grace." Hebrews 10:29. Zechariah 12:10.
25. "The Spirit of Holiness." Romans 1:4.
26. "The Spirit of Judgement." Isaiah 4:4, 28:6.
27. "The Spirit of knowledge." Isaiah 11:2.
28. "The Spirit of Life." Romans 8:2. Revelation 11:11.
29. "The Spirit of Love." 1 Timothy 1:7.
30. "The Spirit of Might." Isaiah 11:2.
31. "The Spirit of Promise." Ephesians 1:13.
32. "The Spirit of Prophecy." Revelation 19:10.
33. "The Spirit of Revelation." Ephesians 1:17.
34. "The Spirit of Supplication." Zechariah 12:10.
35. "The Spirit of Truth." John 14:17, 15:26, 16:13. 1 John 4:6.
36. "The Spirit of Understanding." Isaiah 11:2.
37. "The Spirit of Wisdom." Ephesians 1:17. Exodus 28:3. Deuteronomy 34:9. Isaiah 11:2.
38. "The Breath (Spirit) of the Almighty." Job 33:4.
39. "The Comforter." John 14:16-26, 16:7.
40. "The Power of the Highest." Luke 1:35.
41. "An Unction from the Holy One."

Compare the three following verses.
1 John 2:20, "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." with,

John 14:26, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will sent in my (Jesus) name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance." with,

John 16:13-14, "Howbeit, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me (Jesus) for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you."

42. For He is, "The Spirit is Truth." 1 John 5:6.

1. He is called God. Acts 5:3-4, 1 Corinthians 3:16, with 1 Corinthians 6:19.

2. He is called the LORD of Jehovah." Compare;

Acts 28:25, "Well spake the Holy Ghost by E-sa-ias (Isaiah.)" with,

Isaiah 6:8-9, "I (Isaiah) heard the voice of the Lord, saying, whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. And He (the Holy Spirit) said, Go, and tell this people --."

Compare for yourselves, Hebrews 3:7-9, with Exodus 17:7. Also,

Compare Hebrews 10:15-16, with Jeremiah 31:31-34.

3. Blasphemy against Him is the one unpardonable sin. Matthew 12:31-32.

4. Perfections of God are ascribed to Him.
4-a. Eternal existence. Hebrews 9:14. Eternal meaning, Perpetual, everlasting, eternal.
4-b. Omniscience. 1 Corinthians 2:10-12. "The Spirit searcheth all things."
4-c. Omnipresence. 1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19. Psalms 139:7, "Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?"
4-d. Omnipotence. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11, "The -- Spirit, dividing to every man severally as He will."

5. Works of Divine power are attributed to Him.
5-a. Begets the Son of God. Luke 1:27-35. Matthew 1:18-25.
5-b. Anoints Jesus for His work. Luke 4:18-21.
5-c. Communicates supernatural gifts. 1 Corinthians 12:1-11.

6. Works of Divine power, etc.
6-a. Convinces man of sin. John 16:8.
6-b. Admits him to the Father. Ephesians 2:18.
6-c. Enlightens his mind. 1 Corinthians 2:10.
6-d. Regenerates his soul. John 3:5-6.
6-e. Sanctifies man's nature. 1 Corinthians 6:11.
6-f. Endows man with Christian graces. Galatians 5:22-23.
6-g. Seals him to eternal life. Ephesians 1:13-14, 4:30.
6-h. Reveals future events. Luke 2:26.
6-I. Inspires the prophets. 2 Peter 1:21. Acts 1:16, 28:25. Ephesians 6:17.

7. He is distinctly named as a person in the Godhead.
7-a. In the baptismal formula. Matthew 28:19.
7-b. In the apostolic benediction. 2 Corinthians 13:14.
7-c. One of the witnesses in heaven. 1 John 5:7.

Co-operation of the Holy Ghost in the work of redemption.
His ministrations.

1. He instructs man.
1a. By inspiration of the Bible. 1 Peter 11-12. 2 Peter 1:21, 2 Timothy 3:16. Acts 1:16, 28:25. 1 Corinthians 2:12-13. Hebrews 3:7. Ephesians 6:17, "the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."

1b. By direct teaching. John 14:26, 16:13-14. 1 Corinthians 2:9-14. Ephesians 1:17. 1 John 2:20-27. Luke 1:67-70, Luke 2:26-27.

2. Regenerates men. John 3:5-6, with Matthew 28:19, and John 6:63. Rom.8:4-13. Titus 3:5. Job 33:4, "The Spirit of God hath made me.”

3. Makes man the child of God. Romans 8:14-17. Galatians 4:6-7.

4. Gives the power of prayer and prays with and for man. Romans 8:26-27. Ephesians 2:18, 6:18.

5. Gives and increases Faith. 1 Corinthians 2:14, 12:3-9. 1 John 4:2. Jude 20. Galatians 5:5. 2 Corinthians 4:13, "We having the same Spirit of faith."

6. Enables man to bring forth good fruit to God's glory. Galatians 5:22-23. 1 Peter 1:22. 2 Timothy 1:7. Ephesians 5:9, "For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth."

7. He sanctifies man. 2 Thessalonians 2:13. 1 Peter 1:2-22. 1 Corinthians 12:13, 6:11. Romans 8:2-5-9-13, Romans 15:16, "Being sanctified by the Holy Ghost."

8. How we may obtain the Holy Spirit.

a. In answer to prayer. James 1:5-7. Luke 11:13, "How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him?"

b. By Faith. Ephesians 1:13. Galatians 3:2-3-14. John 7:38-39, Jesus said he that believeth on me, --- out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake He of the Spirit."

c. By repentance and obedience. Acts 2:38. Titus 3:5. 1 Peter 3:21.

9. If we keep our Lord's commandments, the Holy Ghost will abide with us for ever. John 14:15-17.

10. If we are Christians, we are His temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19, "Know ye not that you body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you."

11. We must live as becomes His Holy Presence. 1 Corinthians 3:17, 6:19-20, "Ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit."

12. Ephesians 4:30, "Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God."

True. But the topic is quite different.

No.

I can't understand how one can have a conversation of removing the Holy Spirit. it's impossible.

Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse;

For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily, meaning Father, Son and Spirit

Or never having his presence.

Definition of Church: Churches: To be called out, summoned, from a convocation, assembly, congregation, etc.

Acts 19:39, “A lawful assembly,”

The church universal, Matthew 16:18, Jesus said, “Upon this Rock I will build my church.”

In the Christian sense, an assembly of Christians, generally, 1 Corinthians 11:18. Hence, a church, the Christian church.
Churches of Gentile Christians Romans 16:4, “The churches of Christ.”

Also, as the church which meets at the house of anyone, Romans 16:5, “Likewise greet the church that is in their house.” 1 Corinthians 16:19. Philemon 2. So, Romans 16:16. 1 Corinthians 1:2, 10:32, “Church of God.”

Well calling the church in Matt 16 universal is popular but not what it actually is.

Matthew 18..it's local and visible ..why would Jesus introduce the church one way in matt 16 and then change later?

Matt 16 is about the institution of God's churches plural..singular standing for plural.

Just like 'the horse' , 'the bar', 'the school'

Church as an institution...but not a building. A church is of an assembly of saved and baptized believers..not the building they meet in.

Here's the problem. You want to argue with everyone on everything. Nothing is right with some of you. What I quoted came out of a Greek to English Lexicon of the New Testament, published in 1836, which I own. And Thayer's Greek to English Lexicon of the New Testament published 1977 that is in full agreement with the 1836 Lexicon. Also, the following came from my website, seekfirstwisdom.com. Here is the definition of church. There is no other definition, period.

Church: Churches: Stongs numbering system, #1577. Greek is, ekklesia. Called out, summoned, from a convocation, assembly, congregation, etc.

a. Past particle of persons legally called out or summoned: Acts 19:39, “A lawful assembly,” of the people; and hence also of a tumultuous assembly not legal, Acts 19:32-40, “Account of this concourse = (gathering.)” In the Jewish sense, congregation, assembly, of the people for worship, as in a synagogue, Matthew 18:17, or generally, Acts 7:38. Hebrews 2:12, quoted from, Psalms 22:22, where Septuagint for Hebrew. “in the midst of the congregation.” Also, Deuteronomy 18:16, “Assembly.” 2 Chronicles 1:3-5.

b-1. In the Christian sense, an assembly of Christians, generally, 1 Corinthians 11:18. Hence, a church, the Christian church.

b-2. A particular church, as in Jerusalem, Acts 8:1, 11:22, “tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church.” In Antioch, Acts 11:26, 13:1. In Corinth, 1 Corinthians 1:2. 2 Corinthians 1:1. Of Asia Minor, 1 Corinthians 16:19. Of Galatia, Galatians 1:2. At Thessalonica, 1 Thessalonians 1:1. 2 Thessalonians 1:1. At Cenchrea, Romans 16:1. etc. So churches of Gentile Christians Romans 16:4, “The churches of Christ.” Also, as the church which meets at the house of anyone, Romans 16:5, “Likewise greet the church that is in their house.” 1 Corinthians 16:19. Philemon 2. So, Romans 16:16. 1 Corinthians 1:2, 10:32, “Church of God.”

b-3. The church universal, Matthew 16:18, Jesus said, “Upon this Rock I will build my church.” 1 Corinthians 12:28. Galatians 1:13. Ephesians 1:22, 3:10. Hebrews 12:23, “To the general assembly and church.” So, 1 Corinthians 11:22, 15:9, “I persecuted the church of God.” 1 Timothy 3:15, “how shall he take care of the church of God?” Compare with Septuagint for Hebrew, “Congregation,” Deuteronomy 23:2-4.

Because the MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH would only be revealed much later to Paul.
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same Body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the Gospel... To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the Church the manifold wisdom of God, (Eph 3:3-6,10)

So it is only after Pentecost that the Church -- the Body of Christ -- came into existence. The Church (saved Jews and Gentiles in one Body) is not the same as a local church, since it includes ALL believers worldwide since Pentecost. So you can see how greatly you are in error. Furthermore, no local church today consists 100% of born again believers. Even in apostolic times this was not so. See Revelation 2 and 3.

Not sure what you believe but for me Church is you and me and also where we meet. Can you know Christ and know about the Holy Spirit and not be (This will good) filled with the Holy Spirit? Peter said repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Many Churches operate not knowing Him nor being baptized in the Holy Spirit, "he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit." "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?"

So many know or have taste so to speak yet never been filled. We love to just believe its just repent come Christ and you filled with the Holy Spirit didn't Peter say that? Yet oddly some were asked since they believed have they received the Holy Ghost.. you know that gift. Which opens another door not all get it. I toss it all out as if some man that was born into sin like me has more info on this GOD has given them some insight no one else has seen. No I just read all this like Luke 11 13 I asked and He said if I asked He would give. John 3 16-17. I read it I asked I believe.. I read Rom 10 9-10 I believe I confess. I take everything God gives. "you already got it". Then asking anyway will do what? Father give me the holy Spirit THANK YOU!

So all that to say haha and sorry I do know where I am stepping I am just not ashamed to stand to be bold. So I could have just said yes yet no as the answer. Well many Churches believe in the Holy Spirit to a point on just what He can do today. They limit Him. He has not Changed. The world is far worse and needs Him more then ever. If one says no He says nothing goes to those that "yes here I am"

NO

The church Paul persecuted was the church AT Jerusalem.. for starters. He persecuted no other.

1 Timothy..taking care of the church of God..by context Paul was admonishing Timothy as a young pastor/bishop as overseer of a particular church or other churches he would lead.

The general assembly is referring to the New Jerusalem as the assembly in the end.. but that isn't a now complete entity..it's in the future.

The church Jesus built was in existence before Pentecost with Jesus and His disciples. They did all the work of a real NT church.

Want to know more? See Arthur Pink's writing on the Churches of God. Or S.E Andersons... Real Churches or a Fog. Or J.M.Moody .. My Church.

Thayer also wrote along the lines of -if the meaning of a church ever loses the idea of assembly, congregating ..it ceases to be the meaning of church.

Every believer obviously is an entity in its own right.. and that is the Family of God. But its not 'the church'