Remember the Sabbath

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
May 12, 2016
226
32
28
#21
Let me also
The full verse is "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."

To understand what it means to establish the law we must understand the purpose of the law. This is the purpose in light of the revelation of Jesus Christ:

"What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator."

The law was meant to preserve the people through whom the Seed, singular meaning Christ, would come. Furthermore, Paul writes about the law from the perspective of a Jew:

"..the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we (meaning the Jews because Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were never under the law) were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, (Here tutor is a poor translation. The original Greek is best translated as "school master". A school master did not teach. He merely gathered the children from house to house to take them all to school.) that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."

This is simple, right?: when the children arrive at school there is no longer the need for a school master: the children safely arrived at their destination.

The law served to set limits to the reach of sin. If sin always equaled the death of the sinner then man would have been wiped out in one generation. The law put legal limits on sin's affect upon the people where sacrifice and penance would be required. Sin always meant death but one's death could be substituted by the death of an animal or the giving upon of life sustaining food or supplies. Because, see, the law was meant to preserve the people. To its end, the law was designed to preserve the people through whom Christ would come. Once Christ appeared, then people could be reconciled to God the Father through faith once more.

"Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness".

This is how the "law was established" among the Romans: they were alive in Christ by faith, and Christ was alive in creation through the law. He was the Seed that came through the preservation of the people through the law.

By these two witnesses: 1) That Christ the Seed had appeared and 2) that men could be brought to God by faith in the One He sent, the law is established. It accomplished its intended purpose and is proven to be holy.

This is what "we establish the law" means. Christ's appearance and our faith is Christ establishes that the law performed its intended duties.

Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. We are no longer under the law.
Let me also say, If we abolish the law, which Christ himself said He didn’t, what do you get?
 
May 12, 2016
226
32
28
#22
I understand a state of fulfillment is that state of being where there is nothing missing, you have everything you want or need. If i doctor writes a prescription for 30 tablets, does the pharmacist give you 20 tablets and expect you to come up with the remaining 10?
No, the pharmacist will fulfill the script, as prescribed by the doctor. He already has. The question is will the patient take them as prescribed?
 
May 12, 2016
226
32
28
#23
A vast amount of text to demonstrate nothing but your ignorance of the New Covenant when it comes to the sabbath and God's law. You mix grace with law and so end up in confusion. The writer to the Hebrews calls the Law the shadow. I choose to live in the light.
Amen, Grace and law mixed, how right you are!
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
864
346
63
#24
Gideon300 said:
A vast amount of text to demonstrate nothing but your ignorance of the New Covenant when it comes to the sabbath and God's law. You mix grace with law and so end up in confusion. The writer to the Hebrews calls the Law the shadow. I choose to live in the light.

````````````````

Amen, Grace and law mixed, how right you are!
A test If I may. And you don't have to answer. This is for you when you lay your head down at night.

Do you believe in loss of salvation? Do you believe that if we don't mix in the law, we were not really saved?

If yes to either one.....Your laying your head down in the shadows, and the above comment is very true for you.

The believer who knows how to be filled with the Spirit and knows how to walk in the Spirit.....Fulfills not only the OT laws, they fulfill all of the NT commands also. Do you know how to do this?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#25
Interesting concept brother, so you will be ok if someone comes and kills your kids, steals your car, and takes your money?
Kindly go and read and study Romans 13. That should answer your questions.
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
448
83
#26
Interesting concept brother, so you will be ok if someone comes and kills your kids, steals your car, and takes your money?
If I understand your implications, the killing and stealing that you mention here refers to the 10 Commandments, and further, that since killing and stealing is still wrong in the eyes of the Christian, the 10 C's still be in effect... is that right?

I think that it's a mistake to think that people, like me, who understand and believe that we are no longer under the old covenant and no longer walk according to the Law, would condone what God put forward in the 10 C's... or the bulk of the rest of the laws. I keep hearing people who are Sabbatarians, Torah Observance/Judaizers, and others of similar thinking, make this irrational correlation that if you don't think that the 10 Commandments are still in effect, then you must think that it's okay to kill, steal, covet, etc., etc.

Since God's nature hasn't changed, the way that we are to walk in Grace isn't much different that it was before the old covenant became obsolete. There is plenty in the New Testament writings that tell us that we saved unto good works, and we are to walk in the Spirit, that the laws of God are written on our hearts and minds... we have plenty of instructions on how to walk in obedience. So, we no longer need the task master of written laws when we have the Spirit of Truth living in us. And we believe this because Scripture supports it all very clearly.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,229
2,206
113
#27
Out of the old covenant came the new from its foundation. When Christ taught, what laws did he quote back tot he boy who said which ones should I keep? Christ said I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.
If it is Jesus that provides us the forgiveness of sin. What law did He fulfill in that regard?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#28
Christ said I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.
And does that not register with you? It is BECAUSE Christ fulfilled the Law that He also established the New Covenant. Now there is no need to go back to Moses.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#29
If it is Jesus that provides us the forgiveness of sin. What law did He fulfill in that regard?
All the laws pertaining to the various offering which sacrificed animals in order to "cover" the sins of the Israelites. They could never take away sin. But the Lamb of God -- Christ -- took away the sin of the world. And it is His blood which was shed for the remission (forgiveness) of sins. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission (of sins). Since God already saw the sacrifice of Christ as an accomplished fact long before it happened, He could forgive sins even before Christ was crucified. And Christ Himself forgave the sins of many.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,229
2,206
113
#30
All the laws pertaining to the various offering which sacrificed animals in order to "cover" the sins of the Israelites. They could never take away sin. But the Lamb of God -- Christ -- took away the sin of the world. And it is His blood which was shed for the remission (forgiveness) of sins. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission (of sins). Since God already saw the sacrifice of Christ as an accomplished fact long before it happened, He could forgive sins even before Christ was crucified. And Christ Himself forgave the sins of many.
Amen. The Lord experienced death, which is a debt He did not owe. The blood of animals covered sins they did not owe but, even though they might have been spotless, they were not adequate to take away the sin of any man because the blood of an animal is not exactly equivalent of the blood of a spotless man. And the closest any other man can come to Christ is the self-sacrifice of laying down his life for his brothers, even if that causes him death, but his blood isn't able to remove their sins nor is he able to be raised from the death even for such a noble gesture, as in order to conquer death in that way, he must have been spotless. However, the sins of those that place their faith in the Lamb of God have been taken away and have been made spotless by His blood, which God had already judged would "take away the sin of the world."
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,030
1,319
113
Australia
#31
However, the sins of those that place their faith in the Lamb of God have been taken away and have been made spotless by His blood, which God had already judged would "take away the sin of the world."
I agree
The blood of Jesus is the only source of forgiveness. By faith in Jesus alone we can stand Justified and righteous before God.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

If the law was made void in the life that Jesus lived, why did Paul say "God forbid: yea, we establish the law".
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
If the Ten Commandment law had been blotted out at the cross, would Paul have spoken in such glowing language of its perfection and spirituality? He did not speak of a past law. He said, “the law is holy ... the law is spiritual.” In other words, it was very much alive and operating when Paul wrote to the Roman church. In contrast, he described the handwriting of ordinances in the past tense: “was against us ... was contrary to us.” It is certain he was not speaking of the same law. One was present, and one was past.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

One IS and one WAS
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,030
1,319
113
Australia
#32
Since God's nature hasn't changed, the way that we are to walk in Grace isn't much different that it was before the old covenant became obsolete. There is plenty in the New Testament writings that tell us that we saved unto good works, and we are to walk in the Spirit, that the laws of God are written on our hearts and minds... we have plenty of instructions on how to walk in obedience. So, we no longer need the task master of written laws when we have the Spirit of Truth living in us. And we believe this because Scripture supports it all very clearly.
But why take the one commandment that God said to remember and make it void? Why can't all 10 of the commandments be kept?
I agree it is about having the law writen on the heart by the Spirit of God. It is about walking in the Spirit. God is clear that He GOD almighty made the seventh day holy and sanctified it at creation. He has never in any way changed this Holy day or removed it.
Walking in obedience is to obey His commandments and the Scriptures clearly teach that moral law of Ten commandments have not changed. God wrote them with His own finger... and they are called Ten commandments not 7 or 9 commandments.

We have all become one in Christ so being a Jew or Gentile means nothing.
Jas 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
 
Dec 29, 2023
1,327
238
63
#34
Who said Christians are under the Old Covenant? And who said Christians must observe the 7th day Sabbath? Evidently you have ignored what is revealed in the New Testament (Covenant).

Exactly!

God's Word teaches the old covenant has been done away with because we now have a NEW covenant

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

God's Word teaches that Christians are NOT following Moses as their high priest because now we have a NEW High Priest Who is Jesus Christ?

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

God did away with the old covenant where Moses was the high priest and made a new Covenant where Jesus Christ is the High Priest and since the priesthood has been changed, there has been a change of the law from the law of Moses to the Law of Christ..

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Those who try to keep the law of Moses are responsible for keeping ALL of the law of Moses and if they don’t keep all of the law, they are guilty of failing to keep the law. Christians are NOT called to keep the law of Moses... we are under the law of Christ now. (see - Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2, 2 Peter 1:4-10)

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
 
Dec 29, 2023
1,327
238
63
#35
But why take the one commandment that God said to remember and make it void?
Actually we are to count every day as being holy unto the Lord, along with our entire lives, everything we own, everything we do.

Jesus upped the game from observing / resting just one day as holy unto the Lord to a lot more than that.
 
Dec 29, 2023
1,327
238
63
#36
He did not mention keeping the Sabbath.
Nope, not only did Jesus not teach His followers to keep Saturday sabbath - none of the Apostles did either.

It's odd that the hebrew roots folks and the seventh day adventist folks claim one is not saved if they don't keep Saturday sabbath

They may be polite somewhat but they actually believe one goes to hell if they don't keep Saturday sabbath

But they cannot show where Jesus or His Apostles taught this. strange!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,125
30,255
113
#37
Nope, not only did Jesus not teach His followers to keep Saturday sabbath - none of the Apostles did either.

It's odd that the hebrew roots folks and the seventh day adventist folks claim one is not saved if they don't keep Saturday sabbath

They may be polite somewhat but they actually believe one goes to hell if they don't keep Saturday sabbath

But they cannot show where Jesus or His Apostles taught this. strange!
We had one Sabbath-keeping pusher tell us we were breaking a commandment to worship God on any other day.

Sometimes these fanatics just come across as desperate, saying any old stupid thing to prop up their lies.
 
Dec 29, 2023
1,327
238
63
#38
My answer is usually that I worship God each and every day!

And why would I want to just have one day holy unto the Lord when I can have all days holy unto the Lord!

I usually don't go too far with these guys since no matter what you say or show from scripture you are wrong in their view to not embrace hebrews roots or seventh day adventist

What's really scary about the seventh day adventist is all the false predictions made by their founder Ellen G White

One of them was she was claiming Jesus was going to return on a particular day! Strange indeed.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,125
30,255
113
#39
My answer is usually that I worship God each and every day!
Exactly!

And why would I want to just have one day holy unto the Lord when I can have all days holy unto the Lord!

I usually don't go too far with these guys since no matter what you say or show from
scripture you are wrong in their view to not embrace hebrews roots or seventh day adventist

What's really scary about the seventh day adventist is all the false predictions made by their founder Ellen G White

One of them was she was claiming Jesus was going to return on a particular day! Strange indeed.
It is an odd mix of new and old they embrace and try to convince others they must, also. Yes, very strange.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,229
2,206
113
#40
I agree
The blood of Jesus is the only source of forgiveness. By faith in Jesus alone we can stand Justified and righteous before God.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

If the law was made void in the life that Jesus lived, why did Paul say "God forbid: yea, we establish the law".
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
If the Ten Commandment law had been blotted out at the cross, would Paul have spoken in such glowing language of its perfection and spirituality? He did not speak of a past law. He said, “the law is holy ... the law is spiritual.” In other words, it was very much alive and operating when Paul wrote to the Roman church. In contrast, he described the handwriting of ordinances in the past tense: “was against us ... was contrary to us.” It is certain he was not speaking of the same law. One was present, and one was past.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

One IS and one WAS
The Ten Commandment was against us. If not all of them, then at least one was, definitely. "You shall have no other gods before Me," I believe without going back to doublecheck is written in the singular as to each individual personally. And this is the root of our failure to keep any other subsequent ordinances. How do we establish it? By our agreement that we cannot, nor have, kept it and so need rescued from the sentence it administered toward us. As in a court of law, in establishing a fact, it is then a valid presentation that can be submitted to the presiding judge for consideration for our case that has the authority to afford us this ransom, that blots out the record of it. And since He knows it is indeed available, He would not, and I might even go so far to say could not, dismiss our claim to it. "It is not far from you; it is in your mouth...that if you confess..."Jesus is Lord."

This is exactly the law offered at Moab, apart from the law given at Sinai, which was the Ten Commandments, according to Deuteronomy 29 and 30. Those that were saved then, before Christ's advent, received that law. It provided one commandment that was to have no other god and disclosed the resultant terms either receiving or rejecting it, and I'd say much harsher for rejecting it than the terms of the Sinai covenant. The latter provided for blessing along with the curses, but former resulted in all the curses, that is the entirety of the latter, for rejecting it, or all the blessings, that is the entirety of those in the latter, for receiving it. And these are exactly the terms of the so-called New Covenant, as scripture tells us, "If you transgress in even the least of the law... you are guilty of all."