The Apostleship Of Paul...

Amen yes the apocrypha is interesting as well as the book of Enoch and some other writings also the reason some of those books aren’t included is that there’s no historical certainty of the authenticity remember that Jerusalem was sacked in about 600 ad and they destroyed the temple ransacking everything even the ark and the pole with the serpent Moses had made wich they began to worship and name as a god ( a figure of the cross see John chapter 3 v 14-15) but also thier wrotonfs we’re taken and burned only some were saved and hidden by the scribes and preists

In the ot often we hear references in scriptire to other scriptire that we don’t have anymore remeber again Jerusalem was sacked and burned to the ground a second time in ad 67-70 and again tbier treasires and writings were burned and destroyed but again many of the writings were destroyed my position is that was always part of Gods plan and what we do have is what we need and the Bible isn’t lacking any information

often the books are repetetive teaching the same principles t be ughout the doctrinal points of God repentance and good living in his honor loving in deed and truth our fellow man in his name for his glory but they all use thier own words sayong the same things

ive always been concerned with fraud in some of those texts because the history can’t be traced because of some of those world events like Jerusalems destruction repetitively when that happens a lot of artifacts and history and writings were lost but it’s isn’t as if we’re missing anything I don’t feel

for instance Jude quotes from the book of Enoch but the book of Enoch was found in an Ethiopian cave and there are several different versions of it and no one can authenticate any of them firther back than a few centuries nowhere near where the gospels and epistles are scientifically dated and historically referenced and traced as authentic

so the book of Enoch was a real book at some point I just don’t think I trust a document found 1700 years after Christ and was only 30 percent intact when found the rest is people “figuring out “what was in between the missing words of the text found in Ethiopia

what im saying is while Enoch did write a book I don’t think it’s the same book we have with several versions the main reason is it conflicts with the scripture in the Bible several times but it’s just an opinion of one person some take those texts as authentic which God knows either way

I’m really confident that the Bible is true and authentic but not so much on the apocrypha or some of the other old writings attributed to biblical text

Clements letter is one text i believe is authentic but isnt essential for anyone to read just supports a lot of Paul’s writings also possibly Paul’s apocalypse seems authentic tic not sure though . there were a lot of people writing these epistles and letters and they were circulated among all the churches just like the bible allows for today it really is just a collection of those authenticated writings of Jesus apostles and followers and the prophets before all in one book one place

i love the Bible it is the truth

Amen my friend--although we've lost some valuable literature as you've noted, the Bible has everything we need for salvation and so much more. For 35+ years, I am always learning new things from God, and He speaks to me through His Word. I change and God's revelation through the Bible is always fresh and new to me in my late 50s. There is no other "book" like it, and I've read many as a lit. scholar/teacher.

I find it interesting that one of our Christian pioneers, Martin Luther, actually challenged James, which he referred to as an "epistle of straw." It probably wasn't his favorite because he had "works" crammed down his throat by the corrupt Catholic church of his day. I found it interesting, too, that Luther never intended to start new churches like the "Lutheran" congregations we still have with us today. Luther actually wanted reform within the Catholic Church, which obviously wasn't possible at that time (maybe not today either...) due to power driven leaders who were more focused on materialism than the gospel.

For 35+ years, I am always learning new things from God, and He speaks to me through His Word. I change and God's revelation through the Bible is always fresh and new to me in my late 50s. There is no other "book" like it, and I've read many as a lit. scholar/teacher.”

truly we are brothers in tbat it’s like the worlds largest and most delicious onion there are layers upon layers just revealing new things the word of God is living and active in the mind and hearts of believers shaping our belief and faith pruning and removing the diseased branches that bear no fruit in us removing the sinful thoughts and plans and desires with the gospels truth and light and righteousness

It becomes “ written” in the hearts of those who hear and believe the gospel that’s the key hearing the truth that saves us and believing letting it teach us rather than rejecting it because we thought something else

i remember once in a hotel room drunk long time ago I had been struggling with alcohol for years a Christian believer but still bound I was about to pass out alone drunk and I looked over and saw a Bible the cover was torn off and there was a statement about the Bible on the first page . It was the gideons statement as follows

“The Bible contains the mind of God , the state of man , the way of salvstion and the doom of sinners. It’s doctrines are holy it’s precepts are binding it’s histories are true and it’s decisions are immutable

Read it to be wise believe it to be safe and practice it to be righteous. It co twins light to direct you food to support you and comfort to cheer you.

It is the travellers map , the pilgrims staff .the pilots compass and the soldiers sword and the Christian’s charter. Here paradise is restored , heaven is opened and the fetes of he’ll disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject , our good the intent and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory . Rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it prayerfully slowly and frequently . It is a mine of wealth , a paradise of glory and a river of pleasure

It is, given you in life , will be opened at the judgement and remembered forever. It involves the highest responsability will reward the greatest labor and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents “


That really hit home with me and stuck. One of my first men worked was in a shotgun house in a West Virginia holler in the evening we’d light candles and a coal lamp and daddy would read the Bible stories to us I think it’s my first memory I can’t be sure but I always was near the Bible that night in that hotel after I read that my understanding of the importance of the Bible was set on stone forever

Thank you for sharing your inspiring testimonial, Pilgrim. It's truly amazing how God speaks to us, and my family was never Bible readers until my dad started attending a Southern Baptist church in Houston. He made me go to church with him every Sunday and as a rebellious teenager, that was the last thing I wanted to do.

I did enjoy the pastor's sermons, though. He was an animated and fiery speaker along with being a very nice guy. One sermon he gave focused on Mary and her humility and love for her son, Jesus. It felt like God was talking directly to my hardened heart, and I melted in tears for an hour or so. Then, I felt peace and joy like I had never experienced in life the rest of that day.

I fell back into my normal foolish teenage routine with my friends afterwards, but that experience changed my life. I began doing a deep dive into the Bible in my early twenties, and I've only scratched the surface of all the treasures in God's Word. What a journey!

Amen !! Wonderful news . Brother thanks for the fellowship !!

Our conversation about the Bible reminded me of Paul's thoughts on the value of Holy scripture:

2 Timothy 3:16-17

King James Version

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The entirety of God's Word provides us with all the tools we need to be successful as His children. Knowledge is part of the equation, but God desires us to move beyond this into understanding and wisdom where we put His Word into action and spread the glad tidings of Jesus and His kingdom.

It can be a painful experience to look into the mirror the Bible provides to see our shortcomings and sinfulness. As the author of Hebrews says,

Hebrews 4:12

King James Version

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

An honest examination of our human nature as revealed by the "word of God" causes conviction and ultimately should lead us to repentance. We are rotten at the core and only God can save us from our fallen condition.

There is no fooling God and ourselves as we interact with scripture. It requires a change of heart where the expectations of righteousness are clear, and the standard is perfection, which is only attainable with the help of our Lord Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Forget this KJV word count stuff. Who is going to sit down and hand count the Greek words in the Textus Receptus and Byzantine manuscripts?

Amen

“We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:27‬ ‭

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:20-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think when I realized the entire Bible is actually about Jesus and the gospel I realized how many important the witness of the prophets and law are concerning him and the gospel

The ot was a covenant for Israel but also it was all prophetic pointing to the coming of the messiah I started seeing the same reference all over

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i used to see the prophets as just what happened in the past but realized that was only one element the important part is what they were foretelling when the messiah came

the law has a veil over it because they had no Holy Ghost in them but it’s also a powerful witness of Christ and the gospel in figure and foreshadow once you have the gospel available and opened the prophets start making sense what they were talking about all along it’s really amazing how the Bible completes itself and supports and witnesses itself through so many men of God through time and remains consistent from Abraham to Moses to David to the church as each of those men spoke his word you can see it’s the same spirit speaking the same things as they progress

I’m sure it’s just a googling these days

Appreciate the additional support scriptures fellow pilgrim!

a pilgrimage indeed

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It is such an honor to be a child in Christ's kingdom because it helps to put this life on our troubled planet into perspective.

We are merely pilgrims here living a new life under the New Covenant and sharing the good news of Jesus Christ with others.

I love how the verse above from Hebrews puts everything into perspective for us. We are pilgrims on a great journey to that "better country" that all of us desire and living in that beautiful city that God has prepared for us!

Wow that’s just wonderful to read and consider and relate to

“It is such an honor to be a child in Christ's kingdom because it helps to put this life on our troubled planet into perspective.

We are merely pilgrims here living a new life under the New Covenant and sharing the good news of Jesus Christ with others.”

yes we havent yet arrived home but we’ve got a sure promise from the mouth of God that after the journey we’re going to be welcomed by our Lord if we keep the faith through all the trials and tribulations that this world will surely bring

this world

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s what the gospel teaches us and why he says “ repent and believe the gospel and be saved “ it’s the right understanding of who God is and How God is towards us weak and flawed humans the truth and correct understanding of who God is and what he’s done what he’s said who he’s chosen to save who he loves and calls his children what he teaches those children and how he even warns those children of danger ect that’s what the gospel is and why he calls us to hear and believe him and follow what we learn from him



“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When you really start to hear what Jesus is teaching it becomes so apparent he’s creating the hope of eternal
Life in his teachings and promises to believers

Jesus first preached this ( not accounting the prophets prior witness beforehand of what should later come forth )

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s why every other Christian believes it and preaches it

when we hear Jesus message like that just one simple point it if we believe what he’s said it creates Hope and a reason to look more i te rly into what he’s actually saying if we do t believe God sent him into the world to save us , it’s not going to help in any way in fact it’s going to mean we can’t be saved if that doesn’t change if we don’t believe Jesus is the savior of the world the son of God who came to save us all by shedding his own perfect and worthy life for our imperfect and sinful lives ( to some degree whether small or great) and that he rose from the dead in victory having redeemed all authority on creation ( mans dominion from e beginning given of God was redeemed by God as a man legally living and dying as a man ) rising up our lord forever more …then there’s nothing left that’s going to be acceptable to redeem our souls to God because he’s done everything to save us and said this will save you bekieve and be saved because the end is coming

if we ac try ally believe the message of the gospel it creates the hopes and dreams of eternal life and truly calls our imaginations and desires upward rather than to the earthly things

His word changes us actively and powerfully as we’re able to first hear and believe it and not reject it based on our prior conclusions because it’s the true knowledge that our savior gave to us about the true God just a sample

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So then what were some of his words that would change the spirit in our minds and hearts ?

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭

“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

……..For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:9, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What I’m saying is …..
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is able to create in our hearts the hope of eternal life if we hear it and believe and don’t avoid and reject it it’s for all Christian’s to believe the promises in the gospel And the teachings of the fether sin and Holy Ghost the teachings of the eternal Kingdom and world to come promised by the lord



sort of “our promised land “ as israel
Had thiers in tbe ot we’ve been promised an eternal home without corruption and death and sorrow by the lord and that’s where our inheritance is

Love discussing things with you sorry I get off track always just really appreciate what you say brother

Obviously not fsther sin and holt ghost but son