Has anyone found secret messages in the bible?

But It would have been sinful for Jesus to break His fast.

Are you saying Jesus struggled with an internal desire to break His fast (i.e., internal temptation)?

So when you say that Jesus was tempted like we are, then this would mean that He is also struggling to suppress internal wrong lusts or desires (Which implies something is wrong on the inside of Him)?

If so, that would disqualify Him as being God because God cannot be tempted with evil as I pointed out to you from James 1:13. See, what you are doing is you are sacrificing James 1:13, and Hebrews 7:26 in order to believe a wrong interpretation on Hebrews 2:18, and Hebrews 4:15.

You have to find a way to harmonize all these verses but you are not really doing that. You are disbelieving certain verses in order to hold to a wrong interpretation on others.

As per our conversation the other day, the confusion comes from the hypostatic union.

So the idea of the bifurcation of the Lord Jesus Christ is not foreign to believers. But the Lord Jesus Christ is unique compared to the Trinity. The finite can't co-mingle with the infinite. And the infinite can't co-mingle with the finite.(while he was on the earth)

A simple way of seeing this is the Cross. God was not on the Cross, God cannot die. The humanity of Jesus Christ was on the Cross. The infinite can't co-mingle with the finite.

As it is with the temptations of Jesus. Jesus operated strictly through His humanity(finite) to be able not to sin. God(infinite) cannot be tempted. James 1:13.

Being tempted like as we are does not necessarily mean he could have given into the temptation, but chose not to. Could it not mean that the temptations that Jesus faced were similar to the temptations that we face today? Even though he had no possibility to give into those temptations? He did not have man's nature. Jesus did not have a sin nature to give into.

Um, no, Scripture doesn't even hint at that. The sin to which He was tempted was to break His fast by exercising power on his own (apart from His Father's direction).

Are you saying Jesus struggled with an internal desire to break His fast (i.e., internal temptation)?

No.

So when you say that Jesus was tempted like we are, then this would mean that He is also struggling to suppress internal wrong lusts or desires (Which implies something is wrong on the inside of Him)?

No.

There is no such thing. This is merely a man made doctrine.
It is suggesting that Jesus also had a human soul or human mind in addition to having a divine soul and divine mind.
You cannot demonstrate this from Scripture.
Nowhere do we the Scriptures refer to how Jesus took on a human mind or a human soul.
Yes, Jesus had a physical flesh and blood body that was in the lineage of Adam. But that’s it. It was just an empty shell.
Jesus said His body was a temple.
Jesus said He came down from Heaven in John 6.
This is not possible if He was a newly created being that came into existence in the fact that He was taking on a newly created human mind and or human soul that He did not have before.
In John 8, Jesus had said He was the ”I AM” from Exodus 3. He said this to the Jews as a claim that He knew Abraham. So Jesus is claiming pre-existence. Again, with the Hypostatic Union, He cannot claim Pre-existence because in the Hypostatic Union he has a human mind and or human soul that he did not have before as the Eternal Word. This would mean He is a new creation that did not exist before and He could not claim to truly exist as the I AM and neither can He claim to have come down from Heaven. The human side would make these statements impossible. But if Jesus’s body was just a shell or outward temple, there would be no contradiction.



Colossians 2:9 says that the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within Him bodily. So what you say here is not true. Jesus even still has His physical body and He is still the second person of the Trinity.



This is false teaching.

The Bible says God purchased us with His blood.

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.“(Acts 20:28).

God was manifest in the flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

Modern Bibles corrupt 1 Timothy 3:16 and say, “He was manifest in the flesh…”; No wonder people are confused on this issue in the last days. They are believing the false counterfeit bibles that can be traced back to Westcott and Hort (Who were heretics). They had Unitarians on their team, and they were into Evolution, and they regarded certain stories of the Bible in a liberal way.



No. Jesus is GOD and He never stopped being GOD during His earthly ministry.
Jesus said He was the ”I AM” which is a claim to deity.

Which must mean you believe Adam did have such a sin nature even before he sinned.

I propose that Adam, prior to committing that first sin, was capable of not committing it. His choice to eat the forbidden fruit resulted in him, Eve, and every descendant (aside from Jesus in His humanity) having the so-called "sin nature". Jesus had exactly the same nature that Adam had prior to the fruit incident: capable of making a genuinely free choice. In this way Jesus is truly the second Adam.

Again, if the possibility to sin was absent, the temptation was not genuine; in other words, Jesus wasn't really tempted, and you are inadvertently attributing falsehood to God for telling us that He was. Neither of you has really dealt with this; you keep sidestepping it with redefinitions.

I would say that claiming that Jesus struggled with internal temptation is a more serious wrong implication. I believe it is clearly an attack upon the deity of Jesus Christ. Again, if Jesus is God, and He is, then He cannot be tempted with evil as James 1:13 says. In addition, He is undefiled, and separate from sinners as Hebrews 7:26 says. But you are saying He is not separate from sinners in the fact that He suppressed wrong desires or lusts within Him. These wrong desires He had to suppress would have been defilement or evil within Him to suppress. For if He is being internally tempted, He would have been struggling of fighting to suppress evil desires. This is what James 1:13-14 describes.

It would be that way if Jesus was not separate from sinners because we are weak and human. God has no such weakness or wrong lustful desires in Him to even consider it because He is 100% God on the inside. Nowhere does Scripture say that Jesus joined with a human host, or human mind or that He would be an entirely new and different being in the Incarnation.

Nobody sins without some kind of internal desire or lust involved.

We are living in the last days and the culture is changing into becoming more dark than it used to be. It is derivative of another word that refers to a person’s bottom. Such a word is considered a swear word (See source here). I highly doubt a children’s book titled by the cuss word you would use would not go over too well. Imagine if you yelled this word in church.

Which must mean you believe Adam did have such a sin nature even before he sinned.

I propose that Adam, prior to committing that first sin, was capable of not committing it. His choice to eat the forbidden fruit resulted in him, Eve, and every descendant (aside from Jesus in His humanity) having the so-called "sin nature". Jesus had exactly the same nature that Adam had prior to the fruit incident: capable of making a genuinely free choice. In this way Jesus is truly the second Adam.

Again, if the possibility to sin was absent, the temptation was not genuine; in other words, Jesus wasn't really tempted, and you are inadvertently attributing falsehood to God for telling us that He was. Neither of you has really dealt with this; you keep sidestepping it with redefinitions.

The Lord Jesus Christ is God. No doubt. But He is true humanity and undiminished deity in one person.

And we have to make distinctions when He operated in His humanity. And when he operated in His deity.

God cannot be tempted, yet we see Jesus being tempted. So the distinction is~~~He was tempted in His humanity.

Adam has the capacity to do wrong because he was human.
God (Jesus) does not have the capacity to do wrong. There is nowhere in Scripture that says otherwise and it would be an attack upon God’s character and goodness.

You believe this because some Christian article said it or because some Pastor preached it.
This is not actually true. Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus took on a human mind, or a human soul.
Yes, Jesus had a physical flesh and blood body. Jesus referred to this as a temple.

Scripture says that Jesus was tempted as we are. You continually claim that He was tempted differently than we are.

You are promoting a heresy here, and I'll bet you don't realize it: that Jesus was not fully human.

Scripture tells us that Jesus hungered, thirsted, wept, and became fatigued. While Scripture doesn't specify, He certainly had normal human bodily functions, most likely sweated during exertion and probably, at times, stank for need of bathing facilities. Which part of these is not "weakness"? If Jesus were not fully human, then the incarnation too was a sham. You're digging yourself deeper in error.

What then was Adam's motivation to eat the forbidden fruit? What was the "lust" (your word, not mine) with which he struggled? You have no answer because Scripture doesn't tell us. You must propose the existence of a sin nature prior to the existence of human sin, which is a catch-22.

I'm surprised at your rank ignorance on this matter. "Asinine" is a derivative of "ass", a synonym for donkey.

Equine: of horses; bovine: of cattle; porcine: of pigs; asinine: of donkeys.

I guess you are obligated to throw out your vaunted KJV because it uses this "swear word" well over 100 times (along with "pisseth" which would certainly be considered inappropriate in most churches).

The problem was never my "cuss" word (which obviously isn't a cuss word at all), but rather your dirty mind.

Not at all. I uphold the upright character and unstained goodness of Jesus Christ, Who is God incarnate... and believe at face value the words of Scripture that say He was tempted as we are.

Hebrews 4:15
’For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”

I can say, I made a sound LIKE an polar bear, but it does not mean I am a polar bear.

John 13:21 (NKJV)


John 13:21~~ When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me.”

Luke 2:52
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Matthew 26:38
38 Then He said to them, “My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch with Me.”

But we cannot overlook the, " in all points", "in every respect, " in whole," "every kind of."

If you not only made a sound like a polar bear, but where LIKE a polar bear in every respect......You would be a polar bear.

What do the words, “tempted in all points like we are” refer to?
I see the all points as in reference to being tempted externally to do many various sins by others. Jesus was tempted externally in all points like we are in the fact that others strived to get Him to do evil things.
But Jesus is was God. All it would have done was grieve His soul. In other words, this is the only verse one has to make a case that Jesus struggled with doing evil and suggests there were wrong lusts inside of Him that He simply did not act upon.
Again, the implications in this is problematic because he could not be our spotless Lamb if such were the case.
Internal temptation suggests lusts that are inside of Him are enticing Him. You need to show that Jesus had wrong lusts by Scripture.
But when I read Scripture, I get the exact opposite idea. 1 John 1:5 says there is no darkness in God. Hebrews 7:26 says He is undefiled, holy, and separate from sinners. James 1:13 says that God cannot be tempted with evil. So external temptation is the only way to read Hebrews 4:15.

I don't believe the premise is 'Wrong lusts" on the inside.

I believe the premise is right motivation and the tools/plan/gifts the Father and the Holy Spirit gave Jesus on the inside.(the same we get the moment we are saved.) He is our example.

I don't believe He ever struggled with sin or ever thought," Welllllllll maybe...." He was always in the sphere of the fathers will and filled with the Spirit and utilized the plan/tools/gifts He had to be able not to sin.

He prayed to the Father to take the cup from Him knowing what the Fathers will was.

Hebrews 4:15
’For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”

I can say, I made a sound LIKE an polar bear, but it does not mean I am a polar bear.

Please quote me the verses that show Jesus had a human mind or human soul.
Jesus said His body was a temple. That does not sound like His body was like a merge with another person or a tailored human version of Himself.

I am not in denial of these things. These are all a part of having a human body or temple as Jesus called it.
If Jesus merged with a human mind, His statement that he came down from Heaven would not make any sense.
He could not say that unless He said, “My divine side says, ’I came down from Heaven.”” “But this does not apply to my human mind or soul that was made for me.” Jesus never said anything like that. On the inside of Jesus is 100% God and therefore any capacity to be tempted or to do sin is impossible.

Even today, the word you had used would be unacceptable to say around others in certain situations or places. They would see it as a curse word. Now, if one is around a bunch of cussing sailors, then they obviously will not have a problem with it. I should not even have to debate this with you. You know that you simply don’t say the curse word you said in certain situations without it causing trouble. This is one of the reasons why I am strongly against Peter Ruckman. He had a filthy mouth and he was insulting. The Bible says, "Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.” (Colossians 4:6).

Do you believe Isaiah 45:7 says that God literally created evil?

Isaiah 45:7
”I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

Meaning, do you think God directly created the devil out of thin air? Meaning, did he create Lucifer to be evil to begin with? Did God create a race of people that were evil? Did God create forces or waves of evil as if it was some kind of entity? Surely not, right?

But I have talked with Christians who believe God directly created sin because of this verse.
But in reality the word is actually in reference to calamity or misfortune.
In other words, we need to read Scripture with our heart and not with our heads (shutting off our moral compasses).