The Apostleship Of Paul...

The Holy spirit worked in both men. Your childish insults say a lot about you.

I had not said otherwise. They both were in the same boat.
For example?

Paul was a servant and witness of the lord like every apostle

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and all of them received the Holy Spirit and spoke by the spirit Paul was a convert to Christianity and became a member of the church he tried to destroy

Paul is just an apostle it’s all he ever claimed to be

“After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul never claimed to preach a different message but to be a messenger of the same gospel it doesn’t matter which apostle someone hears the gospel from it matters if it’s the gospel

“Therefore whether it were I ( Paul ) or they, ( the other apostles ) so we preach, and so ye believed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

peter explains Paul is writing epistles to the same church he is calling him a brother in Christ

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That last part is where this thread is coming from trying to create another second gospel which of course

“but they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul was preaching Christianity th same faith he had called heresy and tried to destroy until he was later converted to the church in acts 8-9. Paul again says he first tried to destroy the church d later god made him a witness

“And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:12-16‬ ‭

Paul is a messenger of Jesus like Peter the term apostle has a specific meaning when Paul’s claiming to be an apostle he’s claiming to be “ chosen sent messenger “ of Jesus and the gospel Paul was part of how this would be accomplished

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

until Paul’s death by execution on rome he was doing this

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭

Before that in Ephesus he spent three years preaching the same gospel of the same kingdom Jesus had preached before him for three years …..

“And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Anyone who reads the book of acts can see that Paul is an apostle of Jesus no more or less than Peter John or the others. His only claim ever was that Jesus had chosen him to be one of his apostles an equal to Peter and the others by appointment of Christ Jesus who sent out many messengers to everyone who would listen and be saved paul is one of those messengers.

I think people, well, many of them, resent Paul's apostleship confusing the meaning of it as far as duties performed and live witnessing the life of Christ Jesus, our Lord. He had same authorities and powers as other apostles, yet he was not a witness of Lord's life while he was on Earth.

Why God chose Paul to be the most productive in establishing "law and order" by writing rules and regulations? Interesting question.

There is a LOT of symbolism in and around scripture.

One of the well used ones are 3 & 4.

3 is representing the Trinity
4 is the "four points of direction" meaning the Earth and all within it.

3+4=7
7 is the number of Man and God Tabernacling together. Or in other words "divine completeness".

3×4=12
12 is God empowering man to tell the gospel or be a "nation of priests". IE 12 tribes of Israel and 12 apostles.

7 + 6=13
6 is the number of Man...
So 13 is the number for Jesus....fully man and fully God at the same time.

In truth even though we say "12 apostles" or "12 tribes of Israel " there were always 13. (Joseph had no tribe but his two sons were adopted by Jacob and each had his own tribe)

So....when these parallels are this strong it becomes easier to see that Paul was indeed very much the 13th Apostle and not just a teacher who wrote ⅓ of our New Testament that goes into great detail of teaching Gentiles the moral law of the Old Testament.

And the 13 fulfilled their mission as we sit here today.

Hey brother. Hope you are well.
I'm not arguing against Paul. I was merely pointing out that the selfsame Spirit directing Paul's writing of scripture did so for Luke.

The credit for this would be given to Jesus Yeshua.; that is unless we are to believe that Paul'a s teachings somehow surpass those of our Maker?

Next to Jesus Himself...
John the Revelator, Gospelator, as well as Epistilator.

It was John who walked with Jesus and stood by Him in the dark hour.
It was to John that Jesus transferred the care of His mother.

John 19:
26When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

“resent Paul's apostleship confusing the meaning of it as far as duties performed and live witnessing the life of Christ Jesus, our Lord.”

Paul’s naming his role and position of an apostle of Jesus the lord

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ,

called to be an apostle,

separated unto the gospel of God,

(which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s conversion to Christianity from Judaism

“And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:18, 20, 22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul began making the argument Jesus is the messiah who the prophets foretold should come

Paul Under oath explaining his ministry

“but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:20, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats what Paul was doing he was called to this by Jesus just like Peter James John Matthew ect they were all called to be apostles . Paul’s no dofferent from the other apostles he has the same role they are all chosen and annointed witnesses appointed to spread the gospel to the ends of the world with thier witness and that’s what our Bibles New Testament is the gospel thier witness of Jesus the lord and his doctrine of salvstion and eternal life

even today people hear Paul’s wotness of Jesus in his epistles they hear Peters wotness of Jesus johns matthews Luke’s marks ……

Jesus preached the gospel to these men and then chose and annointed them as divine messengers to spread the gospel he taught them

“I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:14-18, 20-21‬ ‭

Jesus preached the gospel and then chose the apostles to go preach the gospel to all people

Paul is one of the apostles Jesus chose and annointed to carry out this mission on earth whic benefited us even today as we hear the true witness of Jesus and the gospel.

paul is one ne of Jesus apostles his role was to go teach the world the gospel the same role as this and was part of this being fulfilled It’s why Paul also had power like the other apostles

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus was sent to preach the gospel he chose twelve men minis Judas the plus paul

( Matthias wasn’t chosen by Jesus but Peter cast lots before the Holy Ghost eas given , Jesus appeared himself and chose and appointed paul like he had the other eleven apostles )

There’s no difference in Peter and paul they are part of the same group Jesus sent to preach the gospel to all people

“Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everything we’re supposed to know and believe is already written and interpreted for us by Jesus chosen witnesses Paul is not different he’s another witness of the gospel

I love Luke's gospel and his tremendous work documenting the early church in the book of Acts. I remember when I first started reading the Bible in my late teens, I started at Genesis and tried to plow my way through the Old Testament. It was foreign and confusing to say the least, and I think my reading plan fell to shreds when I reached Leviticus.

It was only after I became converted with the help of a lot of great pastors, mentors, and fellow brethren that I fully engrossed myself in the New Testament and core Christian doctrines from brilliant disciples like Paul that I became ready to tackle the Old Testament. It's been a lifelong venture yet a worthwhile one that has enriched my Bible studies and writing tremendously.

The New Testament provides us with the proper context to understand the Old Testament. At least for me, I should have started out with the Gospels and then selectively worked my way through the Old Testament. There are areas I still skim like genealogies, the old sacrificial processes, layout of the tabernacle/temple to name a few because I won't remember them anyway, and they aren't important for my life as a Christian.

I like all of the OT, but I was given to read Isaiah first of all, and I found myself sying to myself, that is so true, wow, that is true, and on and on. Previous to having come to believe I could nto complete a sentence in either of the Testaments, after I could not stop reading it cover to cover, which I continued doing for decades. It is always new. God bless all in Jesus Yeshua..amen.

Paul is one of my patron saints. John, Peter, and the rest of the original apostles (minus Judas of course) are awesome, too, but Paul was given a special mission to expand the gospel to the Gentile world. This was revolutionary, and the scope of his ministry spread the gospel to the civilized Western world.

As a very well educated and trained scholar, Paul was also a Roman citizen, which gave him special rights for travel and protection under Roman law. He fully immersed himself into the teachings of Jesus and with the help of the Holy Spirit, Paul documented some of the greatest Christian literature ever written. His letters are filled with sound doctrine written in plain language, and they best summarize the core Christian teachings of the early church to the Mediterranean region of that day.

I'm 35+ into my study of the Bible and like you said, "It is always new."

My background is classical literature, and there isn't another book that comes close to the Bible.

Wow, my background has been classical literature, but French.. I fell away from that when I came to Jesus Yeshua. (Tooo happy to continue in it..)

The original 12 apostles had their main focus on Judea and firmly establishing the church in that region.

Paul's apostleship expanded Christianity into the civilized world so, yes, I agree that Paul's impact was much larger on a worldwide scale.

It all goes back to Jesus as the Head of the Church and the Holy Spirit as its guide along the way! The original apostles did their job trying to reach the Jews as their primary target audience. Paul went to those who were viewed as inferior and outside the covenants of God and proved that God's ultimate New Covenant applies to all who will accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and continue that spreading of the gospel according to our talents.

Paul's apostleship was an addendum to the original twelve's apostleship in my view. Paul had the same authority as the other apostles, and he submitted to the organizational structure that Jesus established with Peter being the chief apostle.

However, Paul's apostleship was unique in that he had special talents that suited him for the next phase in God's work--expanding the gospel beyond Palestine into the rest of the civilized world. Paul had no problem challenging and correcting Peter and the other apostles when their views were distorted by old Jewish ideas, and Jesus fully supported Paul in these instances (very few and the apostles on the whole agreed and fully supported Paul's ministry/mission).

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there were/are any other "apostles" after the original 12 and Paul. Sure, there are some who have claimed they are "God's apostle," but I don't think that aligns with mainstream Christianity. That role like that of a prophet is currently not active or has been modified based on the current needs of the Church.

Sorry. church doctrine is dominated by Paul.

John concentrates on the deity of Christ.

There were other apostles.

The other apostles were Barnabas and James (the Lord’s brother) and some Greek apostles Apollos, Epaphroditus, Andonicus, Junias, Silas and Timothy.

and many reject much of it like the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

he said, how he see's God now is like looking in a dim mirror, but soon FACE to FACE, he will see what he doesn't and cannot see now.
even said, his knowledge of God now is like a child.
but when the PERFECT COMES, he will have the understanding as an adult.

and they turned this into the Bible being completed hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Thats ok. You have a right to post your thoughts just as much as anyone else here at CC, dear brother.

Church ordinances and sacraments are not as important as the Gospel. It was John who quoted the Words of Jesus verbatim and walked with Jesus daily. John left his own name out of the Gospel so as to completely focus on Jesus. Paul talked about himself constantly, even to the point of boasting of his apostolic credentials and pharisaical high standing. Paul did much but was not the humble example of servitude and meekness that John was.

Paul was a Martha and John was a Mary.

Luke 10:42 Context
39And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. 40But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. 41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.