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seemlesanctity

Member
#821
Oct 22, 2023
21
2
8
#821
the Book of Hebrews Chapter 1: explains from the Manuscripts.

:1 Many ways, also various ways, long ago the God spoke to their fathers

:2 IN THEIR PROPHETS UNTO THESE LAST OF DAYS, OF THESE, HE SPOKE TO THEM IN HIS SON UPON WHOM IS GIVEN HEIR, OF WHOM ALSO THIS IS FOREVER DONE

:3 WHO BEING THE EMANATION / RADIATING OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS CONFIDENCE

Many people believe that Jesus and God are NOT the same,

many are unsure and just a little confused - specifically about the Trinitarian teaching. Some may believe Jesus to be a part of God or a servant of God but not literally God himself. HOWEVER -

The scriptures do declare Jesus the anointing to be the very SAME God himself, manifest in the flesh - " THE ONE GOD "


Php 2 : 6 - - explains concerning JESUS

:6 WHO IN MORPH GOD EXISTED NOT TAKING AUTHORITY TO BE EQUALLY GOD.
:7 BUT HIMSELF, EMPTY / VOID MORPH OF A SERVANT, RECEIVING IN THE LIKENESS OF MANKIND, HE BECAME.

the scriptures clearly explain that God conceived himself in Jesus the Son of man born of Mary

The Invisible Spirit of God created himself as visible - as MORPHED, CHANGED, LOWERED, EMPTY, LESSER , ADJUSTED, PHYSICAL BEING MORPHING / forming HIMSELF into the form of a man and - formed himself as a man and that the Spirit, Holy of God dwelled inside the man - this man is Jesus, The Anointing Spirit Of God

this man was created as God himself and made in the likeness of sinful flesh, the existence and deity and very SPIRIT OF JESUS is the same Eternal Spirit that is God himself - and that the Eternal Spirit in Jesus is God himself
the God - Eternal Spirit, Holy in the form of The Anointing whom is Jesus
the Anointing of God's spirit.

1Pe 1:10 speaks - CONCERNING - GOD AS THE ETERNAL SPIRIT GIVING ANOINTING " INSIDE THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS “

:10 The prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

:11 Searching what, or what manner of time- “ THE SPIRIT OF THE ANOINTING / CHRIST “ WHICH WAS IN THEM - did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of THE ANOINTING / CHRIST :


We see clearly that the very same Spirit of Jesus himself, was the very same Spirit that had been previously upon the earth - as “ THE SPIRIT OF THE ANOINTING “ - – in / inside the prophets in the Old testament..

Jesus ------- he is the ANOINTING of the Spirit, Holy -- BEING THE LITERAL ANOINTING OF GOD - the installation, placement, application, positioning, stationing, appointment, applying of the Spirit, Holy Of The God in our lives.
To apply. to be the application

Jesus, The Anointing Spirit Of God - the word of God

His Spirit is the manifestation, form of what is being applied, ANOINTED - placed, applied, positioned, stationed, appointed, working, rubbing, moving anointing - the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, to handle); to furnish what is needed; , to apply and to use.

This is the role of Jesus the Anointing / Christ - that Gods Holy Spirit has applied HIS SACRIFICE for our salvation and also for communication to Him, the eternal spirit, the " Holy Spirit " gives glory to Jesus the Anointing / Christ - in that the Holy Spirit sanctified the blood of God through the Spirit / the Anointing, through Jesus, - through the eternal spirit

Please notice the scriptures below.

1Co 12:6 And there are DIVERSITIES OF OPERATIONS, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
:7 But the manifestation of THE SPIRIT is given to every man to profit withal.
:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge BY THE SAME SPIRIT;
:9 To another faith by the SAME SPIRIT; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
:11 But all these worketh that one and the SELFSAME SPIRIT, dividing to every man severally as he will.
:13 For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT.

Eph 2:18 For by him we have access both in ONE Spirit to the Father. - singular spirit
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 14:18 I - Jesus, - I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Mat 10:20 For it is not you that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER that speaketh in you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Spirit of the Holy , whom the Father will send in my name, - - - - { I will come to you. )
Rom 8:15 but you have received the spirit of adoption of sons, whereby we cry: Abba (Father).
Ga 4:6 And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father. - - { I will come to you. )
Eph 2:18 For by him we have access both in ONE Spirit to the Father. -
 
Fundaamental

Fundaamental

Well-known member
#824
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#824
It's beyond me why this discussion can't be tolerated, off course there could be consistent attempts from deliberate attempt to cause division.

But with the same token there it could be the same member stuck in mindset that's hindering is walk
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#825
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#825
Fundaamental said:
It's beyond me why this discussion can't be tolerated, off course there could be consistent attempts from deliberate attempt to cause division.

But with the same token there it could be the same member stuck in mindset that's hindering is walk
Click to expand...
If you study our history from the time of Christ, you find that often the earthly church was clearly wrong. Millions of people were murdered as the Protesents and Catholics fought each other, although murder is wrong.

The OT clearly tells the Jews of Christ, the sacrificial system is symbolic of Christ also, yet most deny Christ.

We must humbly study and follow scripture, and carefully watch church doctrine to be sure it follows the teachings of the Lord.

I am not a Lutheran, Babtist, Catholic, etc., I am a Christian.
 
G

goga

New member
#826
Nov 25, 2023
22
13
3
#826
Blik said:
If you study our history from the time of Christ, you find that often the earthly church was clearly wrong. Millions of people were murdered as the Protesents and Catholics fought each other, although murder is wrong.
Click to expand...
"an hour is coming when whoever kills you will think and claim that he has offered service to God. "

carefully watch church doctrine to be sure it follows the teachings of the Lord.
Click to expand...
As far as I can understand the whole issue, Lord did not teach anything, he was asking questions and explaining conditions. Why?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#827
Jul 3, 2015
59,909
29,289
113
#827
goga said:
As far as I can understand the whole issue, Lord did not teach anything, he was asking questions and explaining conditions. Why?
Click to expand...
The people were astonished at His teaching, because He taught
as one who had authority, and not as the scribes. Mark 1:22

Luke 2:47
And all who heard Him were astounded at His understanding and His answers.

Matthew 7:28-29
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished
at his doctrine, because He taught as one who had authority, and not as their scribes

Matthew 11:1
After Jesus had finished instructing His twelve disciples, He went on from there to teach and preach in their cities.

Matthew 13:53-54
When Jesus had finished these parables, He withdrew from that place. Coming to His hometown, He taught the people
in their synagogue, and they were astonished. "Where did this man get such wisdom and miraculous powers?" they asked.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#828
Oct 29, 2023
3,470
452
83
#828
JacobMartinMertens said:
I have considered it. I may be able to just ask Him if He can hear me, such that it would not be prayer. For He taught us (the disciples) to pray to the Father, God. Or, His Father, God.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that one does not have to believe Jesus is God to be saved. Nowhere in the preaching of Jesus in Acts did the disciples insist on people believing Jesus is God before baptising them. Nevertheless I myself understand God as a triune comm-unity of three distinct Persons without beginning or end.

What do you make of the following,

John 17:3 "And THIS is everlasting life, to KNOW You, the only True God, AND Jesus Christ whom You sent.".

And John 14:23 "... and My Father will love him, and we will come and make our abode with Him."

And 14:20 "In that day ye shall know that I am in My Father, and ye in Me and I in you."

And John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father and He shall give you another Comforter; that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive, because it sees Him not, nor knows Him; for He dwells with you and shall be in you."

John 20:22 And when [Jesus] had said this he breathed on them and said, "Receive ye the Holy Spirit."

Is this three Persons being described as being with and in believers?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#829
Jul 3, 2015
59,909
29,289
113
#829
PaulThomson said:
I agree with you that one does not have to believe Jesus is God to be saved.
Click to expand...
John 8 has Jesus declaring to the scribes and Pharisees Who He is, which they reject. I suggest you read the whole chpater.


Jesus' Words in John 8:23b plus 24b
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#831
Oct 29, 2023
3,470
452
83
#831
Magenta said:
John 8 has Jesus declaring to the scribes and Pharisees Who He is, which they reject. I suggest you read the whole chpater.


Jesus' Words in John 8:23b plus 24b
Click to expand...
Magenta said:
John 8 has Jesus declaring to the scribes and Pharisees Who He is, which they reject. I suggest you read the whole chpater.


Jesus' Words in John 8:23b plus 24b
Click to expand...
The requirement to believe Jesus is God is noticeably absent from the book of Acts as something sinners were told they needed to believe to become baptised believers.
Jesus was arguably referring to Deut 18:15, and the need to believe that Jesus is the prophet like unto Moses whose words all were required to listen to. See also Acts 3:22 and Acts 7:37
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#832
Mar 1, 2022
19,003
6,530
113
62
#832
PaulThomson said:
The requirement to believe Jesus is God is noticeably absent from the book of Acts as something sinners were told they needed to believe to become baptised believers.
Jesus was arguably referring to Deut 18:15, and the need to believe that Jesus is the prophet like unto Moses whose words all were required to listen to. See also Acts 3:22 and Acts 7:37
Click to expand...
According to Jesus it is the revelation of Jesus by the Father that the church is built upon. It was a given.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#833
Jul 3, 2015
59,909
29,289
113
#833
PaulThomson said:
The requirement to believe Jesus is God is noticeably absent from the book of Acts as
something sinners were told they needed to believe to become baptised believers.
Jesus was arguably referring to Deut 18:15, and the need to believe that Jesus is the prophet
like unto Moses whose words all were required to listen to. See also Acts 3:22 and Acts 7:37
Click to expand...
Moses did not come from heaven as Jesus claimed to, juxtaposed against those (humanity, all) of Earth.
He is declaring Himself to be God, and telling them if they do not believe that He is Him (Who else do
you think that He refers to in John 8:23b???), they will die in their sins. I would say it is pretty important
to know that Jesus is God considering Jesus says that otherwise you will die in your sins.

Regardless of this absence in Acts.


Jesus' Words in John 8:23b plus 24b
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
#834
Sep 17, 2018
4,056
3,169
113
#834
PaulThomson said:
I agree with you that one does not have to believe Jesus is God to be saved. Nowhere in the preaching of Jesus in Acts did the disciples insist on people believing Jesus is God before baptising them. Nevertheless I myself understand God as a triune comm-unity of three distinct Persons without beginning or end.

What do you make of the following,

John 17:3 "And THIS is everlasting life, to KNOW You, the only True God, AND Jesus Christ whom You sent.".

And John 14:23 "... and My Father will love him, and we will come and make our abode with Him."

And 14:20 "In that day ye shall know that I am in My Father, and ye in Me and I in you."

And John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father and He shall give you another Comforter; that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive, because it sees Him not, nor knows Him; for He dwells with you and shall be in you."

John 20:22 And when [Jesus] had said this he breathed on them and said, "Receive ye the Holy Spirit."

Is this three Persons being described as being with and in believers?
Click to expand...
This poster was banned over a month ago. Hence the word "banned" under his name.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#836
Oct 29, 2023
3,470
452
83
#836
Magenta said:
Moses did not come from heaven as Jesus claimed to, juxtaposed against those (humanity, all) of Earth.
He is declaring Himself to be God, and telling them if they do not believe that He is Him (Who else do
you think that He refers to in John 8:23b???), they will die in their sins. I would say it is pretty important
to know that Jesus is God considering Jesus says that otherwise you will die in your sins.

Regardless of this absence in Acts.
Jesus' Words in John 8:23b plus 24b
Click to expand...
I would expect some doctrine essential to salvation would be clearly stated in the book of Acts which describes the conversion of the first Christians. We agree that Jesus is God, but I don't see where belief in the deity of the Lord is stated as essential to regeneration. The realisation of the fulness of Jesus' nature comes as our relationship with Him develops after the new birth, imho. I have already answered what Jesus meant to indicate by the "He" in John 8:23-24: He most likely refers to the promised prophet, whom the Jewish leaders were rejecting and not listening to.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#837
Oct 29, 2023
3,470
452
83
#837
Magenta said:
Moses did not come from heaven as Jesus claimed to, juxtaposed against those (humanity, all) of Earth.
He is declaring Himself to be God, and telling them if they do not believe that He is Him (Who else do
you think that He refers to in John 8:23b???), they will die in their sins. I would say it is pretty important
to know that Jesus is God considering Jesus says that otherwise you will die in your sins.

Regardless of this absence in Acts.
Jesus' Words in John 8:23b plus 24b
Click to expand...
I would expect some doctrine essential to salvation would be clearly stated in the book of Acts which describes the conversion of the first Christians. We agree that Jesus is God, but I don't see where belief in the deity of the Lord is stated as essential to regeneration. The realisation of the fulness of Jesus' nature comes as our relationship with Him develops after the new birth, imho. I have already answered what Jesus meant to indicate by the "He" in John 8:23-24: He most likely refers to the promised prophet, whom the Jewish leaders were rejecting and not listening to.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#838
Jul 3, 2015
59,909
29,289
113
#838
PaulThomson said:
I would expect some doctrine essential to salvation would be clearly stated in the book of Acts which describes the conversion of the first Christians. We agree that Jesus is God, but I don't see where belief in the deity of the Lord is stated as essential to regeneration. The realisation of the fulness of Jesus' nature comes as our relationship with Him develops after the new birth, imho. I have already answered what Jesus meant to indicate by the "He" in John 8:23-24: He most likely refers to the promised prophet, whom the Jewish leaders were rejecting and not listening to.
Click to expand...
As an historical account of the early Christian church and its leaders, Acts contains many teachings and doctrines that are
essential to the Christian faith. Are you saying that every doctrine essential to the Christian faith is articulated in Acts?
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#839
Oct 29, 2023
3,470
452
83
#839
Magenta said:
As an historical account of the early Christian church and its leaders, Acts contains many teachings and doctrines that are
essential to the Christian faith. Are you saying that every doctrine essential to the Christian faith is articulated in Acts?
Click to expand...
Which meaning of essential are you thinking of?
essential
1 of 2adjective
es·sen·tial i-ˈsen(t)-shəl

Synonyms of essential
1
: of, relating to, or constituting essence : INHERENT

2
a
: of the utmost importance : BASIC, INDISPENSABLE, NECESSARY
an essential requirement for admission to college

b
: being a substance that is not synthesized by the body in a quantity sufficient for normal health and growth and that must be obtained from the diet
a vegetable oil rich in essential fatty acids

see also ESSENTIAL AMINO ACID compare NONESSENTIAL sense 2

3
: IDIOPATHIC
essential disease

essential hypertension

I would say that in Acts every doctrine necessary for being born again as a babe in Christ was taught by the apostles to those who believed and were saved. Converts would grow from there by adding more details about Jesus through the study of scripture and through experience as the Holy Spirit interprets these for us. Recoognising Jesus as God would be essential to maturity in the faith, but not for salvation by grace through faith in Christ..
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#840
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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113
#840
PaulThomson said:
Recognising Jesus as God would be essential to maturity in the faith, but not for salvation by grace through faith in Christ..
Click to expand...
That is certainly not what the Bible reveals.

How can anyone believe that the finished work of Christ in His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension is true (and applicable to himself), yet not believe that the Lamb of God, the Savior of the world, was not (and is not) the God-Man -- fully God and fully sinless Man? This is exactly what "faith in Christ" means. Indeed the account of the birth of Christ says that it is Immanuel (Emmanuel) -- GOD WITH US -- who was born in a manger.

How can anyone believe that the blood of Christ was shed for the remission and ongoing cleansing of his or her sins, and not believe that it is THE BLOOD OF GOD. Indeed that is exactly what the Bible says (Acts 20:28): Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Since it was not God the Father but God the Son who was sacrificed on the cross, this clearly tells anyone that in order to be saved they must believe that JESUS IS GOD. [/QUOTE]
 
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