What if God had written IN STONE?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
Yes, Christ did teach and obey the 10 Commandments.

And the word "end" in that verse comes from the Old English KJV and it is used the same way that we would say "To what end do you take that action?"

It means objective or purpose.

Yes, Jesus certainly was the "end" (objective/purpose) of the Law for righteousness. He is the reason, and the goal, of us obeying the 10 Commandments. We are emulating His actions of obedience to the Father's Commandments.

Christians are followers of Christ.

Obedience to the 10 Commandments is how we follow Christ's ways of obeying the 10 Commandments.
John 15:10
And when you break one, do you offer a sacrifice? Are you unsaved? Did Paul ever teach the Ten Commandments to the Gentiles?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,412
13,755
113
just using examples but not applying them directly like you committed them. i am asking in question format.

let's take the Sin of Offense.
ever offend someone and not know it?
to God, it is still a sin, whether you know it or not.
I'm sure you're aware of this, but for any who aren't:

The existence of an offense does not necessitate the sin of offending. Jesus offended the Pharisees, but He didn't sin. ;)

God alone is the Judge as to when offending someone is sinful. I suspect that in most cases, the sin is not in the offending itself, but in something related that is inherently sinful.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,412
13,755
113
I've stated repeatedly that we all stumble.

You continue to try and force the accusation upon me that I've claimed to be perfect or that we must keep the Commandments perfectly, etc.

I've addressed that multiple times.

I'm not perfect and we don't have to be.

But we do have to try. If we love God, it's not difficult at all to try.

We always desire to make those we love happy. Do we not?
What you do is promote adherence to the ten commandments, which is not consistent with new covenant Christianity. What you seem to fail to understand is that those who are led by the indwelling Holy Spirit don't need to strive to obey; we live by the Spirit and therefore do not contravene the commandments. As Paul wrote in Romans, "Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law" so we who have the Spirit do by the Spirit's nature what is required by the law.

Instead of worrying over obeying the commandments, start living by the Spirit of God.
 

ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
974
596
93
I'm sure you're aware of this, but for any who aren't:

The existence of an offense does not necessitate the sin of offending. Jesus offended the Pharisees, but He didn't sin. ;)

God alone is the Judge as to when offending someone is sinful. I suspect that in most cases, the sin is not in the offending itself, but in something related that is inherently sinful.
IT is true, Jesus did not sin because he told the pharisees the truth for their edification. The truth does offend more often than not.

Blessings.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
63
if no one but God is good, how much hope do i have of achieving salvation by keeping the commandments?

:coffee::unsure:

so what's He really saying, here?
is it really 'keep the commandments for salvation'?
After Jesus said that if you want to enter into life keep the Commandments, how much hope do you have if you don't keep them?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,053
6,547
113
62
After Jesus said that if you want to enter into life keep the Commandments, how much hope do you have if you don't keep them?
If you have placed your trust in Jesus, you have already passed from death to life. You will not keep the commandments regardless of which is true of you.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
63
And when you break one, do you offer a sacrifice? Are you unsaved? Did Paul ever teach the Ten Commandments to the Gentiles?
Yes, I claim the sacrifice of Christ. He was offered as the perfect sacrifice so that I can be forgiven.

About the Law being taught to Gentiles...

Act 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Notice He was teaching Gentiles on the Sabbath? He didn't say "Oh you don't have to wait a week, come back tomorrow on Sunday." He was teaching the Sabbath by word and deed. Also, just what word of God was Paul teaching? The N.T. hadn't been written yet.

Act 16:12 and from there to Philippi, which is the foremost city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days.
Act 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.

Again, on the Sabbath, not Sunday or just any day but the Sabbath.

Act 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act 17:3 explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ."

What scriptures? The Old Testament. The New Testament was not canonized until around AD95 by John. Again, as Paul's custom was, he kept and taught on the Sabbath.

Yes, I claim the sacrifice of Christ. He was offered as the perfect sacrifice so that I can be forgiven.

About the Law being taught to Gentiles...

Act 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Notice He was teaching Gentiles on the Sabbath? He didn't say "Oh you don't have to wait a week, come back tomorrow on Sunday." He was teaching the Sabbath by word and deed. Also, just what word of God was Paul teaching? The N.T. hadn't been written yet.

Act 16:12 and from there to Philippi, which is the foremost city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days.
Act 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.

Again, on the Sabbath, not Sunday or just any day but the Sabbath.

Act 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act 17:3 explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ."

What scriptures? The Old Testament. The New Testament was not canonized until around AD95 by John. Again, as Paul's custom was, he kept and taught on the Sabbath.

Yes, I claim the sacrifice of Christ. He was offered as the perfect sacrifice so that I can be forgiven.

About the Law being taught to Gentiles...

Act 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Notice He was teaching Gentiles on the Sabbath? He didn't say "Oh you don't have to wait a week, come back tomorrow on Sunday." He was teaching the Sabbath by word and deed. Also, just what word of God was Paul teaching? The N.T. hadn't been written yet.

Act 16:12 and from there to Philippi, which is the foremost city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days.
Act 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.

Again, on the Sabbath, not Sunday or just any day but the Sabbath.

Act 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act 17:3 explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ."

What scriptures? The Old Testament. The New Testament was not canonized until around AD95 by John. Again, as Paul's custom was, he kept and taught on the Sabbath.

Did Paul teach Gentiles to keep the Law?

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,256
4,300
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
Would that convince the doubting faithless of the permanence of His declaration of expectations for mankind? Ever so sadly not.

Modern perspectives would lead many to believe that the 10 Commandments were written in stone due to some primitive caveman evolutionary gobbledy-gook. "Well it's because that's all they had back then!", they surmise.

The fact is that everything God has ever done has had deep symbolic meaning beneath the obvious surface purposes.

The 10 Commandments written in stone could not have been a more obvious declaration from God Almighty that they were intended to stand forever and never, ever be changed. Just as God is unchanging, so are His Laws and the 10 Commandments are also a moral structure of just who God is. It's no coincidence that Jesus Christ is referred to as the rock; the solid, unchanging, immovable foundation of Truth and all things holy and just.

The 10 Commandments were given to all mankind and Christ reiterated their importance by teaching them all, obeying them all and made certain that His followers understood to continue to keep them after His Crucifixion - which is exactly what they did. It would only make sense that He would do so as He was the Creator of them.

Why then do we have so many naysayers today who make such ridiculous claims as 'You will be damned to hell if you obey the Commandments!' and 'Obedience to the Commandments is "works salvation"!'? The Bible told us very clearly that we would have grievous wolves come into the churches and lead many astray. We have been told that the blind leaders of the blind lead many into the ditch. We have also been told by Jesus Himself that the road to salvation is a narrow one and many, many would be led down the wide road to destruction.

The 10 Commandments are now, and always will be, applicable to all professed Christians and they are quite literally the very foundation of the Christian Faith.

I know that the law has a purpose, but where does it say that the 10 commandments are the foundation of the Christian faith?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,795
13,549
113
After Jesus said that if you want to enter into life keep the Commandments, how much hope do you have if you don't keep them?
Romans 3:19-22​
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,309
3,131
113
The 10 Commandments are all that is required as far as obeying the Commandments. The 10 cover all scenarios that aren't expired - like the sacrificial ordinances, etc.

Yes, Jesus is called the Rock of Ages in reference to the decalogue written in Stone by God.

He is forever just as they are.
If we could obey God's commandments, Jesus suffered and died for nothing. You are entirely wrong. The Law was given through Moses; grace and truth through Jesus Christ. If the law is sufficient, there is no need for grace and truth. You should try reading the New Testament. You might learn something. I'd start with Galatians and then read Hebrews.

My next question is why only 10 commandments? There are 613 in all. Some are no longer applicable and some apply either to men or women or specific groups of people. However, the Law is the Law and must be obeyed or else. Will you go to the temple and sacrifice a lamb for your sin? Oh, you can't. There is no temple. Tough luck, you are condemned because you have failed to meet the requirements God's Law.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,309
3,131
113
After Jesus said that if you want to enter into life keep the Commandments, how much hope do you have if you don't keep them?
If you could keep the commandments, Jesus suffered and died for nothing.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,256
4,300
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
Would that convince the doubting faithless of the permanence of His declaration of expectations for mankind? Ever so sadly not.


The 10 Commandments are now, and always will be, applicable to all professed Christians and they are quite literally the very foundation of the Christian Faith.
I think this is what you are looking for.

24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
Galatians 3

The purpose of the law in regards to salvation from hell is the following.
A...We don't keep it and we deserve death in hell. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death."

B. The object of your faith in keeping the law is futile. Hypothetically, IF you were able to keep it 100% from this day forward, you already blew it. You broke it far more than once. Your turning from those sins you can actually remember along with all the tears you can muster don't pay for sins.
I used to think that God had scales in heaven to weigh out good work against our sins. That was a misunderstanding that I had to reconsider and reject. "There is none righteousness, no not one." Romans 3

C. You must change your decision of trusting in your good works of trying to keep the 10 commandments and instead make Jesus Christ the Object of your faith. Trust that He gave His life suffering what you deserve, died, and three days later took back His life and arose from the tomb. Don't add works to what He did all by Himself or you will keep your punishment. If you want God's forgiveness, that gift must be received His way apart from keeping the law.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I hope THIS LINK is a blessing to you
please pray with them at the end.
📖🙂👍
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,428
6,705
113
What is wrong with doing our best to follow the Ten? What is wrong with each of them?

I know I am yet not perfect, for God will complete that condition in me, but the ten Commandments are wonderful and good guidelines for all who live in grace to attempt to follow to the letter, for they are nor without mercy and love.

So, please address these augmenting questions.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,010
1,267
113
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

So we being dead to the law frees us from the law as many scriptures affirm. The old law is dead, we are then in response dead to that law and free to re-marry a new husband and law...the law of Christ of the new covenant being no longer bound to the old dead law.


Clarke:

Romans 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren - This is a parallel case. You were once under the law of Moses, and were bound by its injunctions; but now ye are become dead to that law - a modest, inoffensive mode of speech, for, The law, which was once your husband, is dead; God has determined that it shall be no longer in force; so that now, as a woman whose husband is dead is freed from the law of that husband, or from her conjugal vow, and may legally be married to another, so God, who gave the law under which ye have hitherto lived, designed that it should be in force only till the advent of the Messiah; that advent has taken place, the law has consequently ceased, and now ye are called to take on you the yoke of the Gospel, and lay down the yoke of the law; and it is the design of God that you should do so.

Gill:

are become dead to the law, and that to them, as in Rom_7:6, and can have no more power over them than a law can have over dead persons, or a dead abrogated law can have over living ones. They are represented as "dead to sin", and "dead with Christ", Rom_6:2; and here, "dead to the law", as in Gal_2:19, and consequently cannot be under it; are out of the reach of its power and government, since that only has dominion over a man as long as be lives the law is dead to them; it has no power over them, to threaten and terrify them into obedience to it; nor even rigorously to exact it, or command it in a compulsory way


Matthew Henry:


I. Our first marriage was to the law, which, according to the law of marriage, was to continue only during the life of the law. The law of marriage is binding till the death of one of the parties, no matter which, and no longer. The death of either discharges both.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,578
9,094
113
He who obeys and teaches the 10 Commandments is called greatest in heaven.
Matt. 5:19

If your righteousness does not exceed the righteousness of the hypocritical scribes and Pharisees, who taught the 10 Commandments but never obeyed them, you have no chance of entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt. 5:20

Jesus' words.

Not mine.

How many preachers do you know today who even teach the 10 Commandments, much less even attempt to keep them?
Well, you said Jesus didn't teach that loving God and your neighbor fulfilled the Law. I posted Scripture proving He did.

You didn't bother addressing that Scripture. Instead, you moved on to a passage you completely got wrong.
So first, address the Scripture I posted that refutes your false claim, then I will show you your error in the passage you cite.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,053
6,547
113
62
What is wrong with doing our best to follow the Ten? What is wrong with each of them?

I know I am yet not perfect, for God will complete that condition in me, but the ten Commandments are wonderful and good guidelines for all who live in grace to attempt to follow to the letter, for they are nor without mercy and love.

So, please address these augmenting questions.
Doing our best misses God's best. We were never to live independently of God. We are only complete in God. Adam and Eve walked with God each day even before sin entered. How much more do we need to walk with God.
But more than this, God has offered a way for us to live without sinning. As we walk in the Spirit, we live, but not us, Christ lives in us. And as He is able to live in perfect obedience, He lives perfectly obediently in us.
What God has secured for us in Christ is incredible. Unfortunately, too few Christians take advantage of it.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,428
6,705
113
Did I not post the condition of being in grace? If I did not , please forgive that.