REVELATION 2:9 Who are those who claim they are Jews but are of the synagogue of Satan?

This is mentioned twice in Revelation in the letter to the church of Philadelphia. Also, do these 7 churches in Revelation encapsulate the current churches today (or in the last days?)


I know thy works and tribulation and poverty (but thou art rich), and I know the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but do lie — behold, I will make them to come and worship at thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Revelation 3:9

We got a lot of candidates for that. You got the black hebrew israelites, you got russian furhats, you got the freckled irishman, you got the hebrew roots israelite folks who believe in "british israelism" some of them.

Basically an endless list.

God gave me this really long vision that takes place around the time of the Two Witnesses.Part of it was he had people knocking at my door,and falling at my feet saying God loves me.Some of them were satanist,and others were lukewarm at best.A lot of them did me wrong,and so I didn't like these people coming over.I asked God to stop bring these people over but they just kept on knocking.People started coming over with plates of food.Anything they could offer.Cars,money.
A couple even sold a cabin house,and gave the money, but kept some.God told me what they were doing before they showed up, and that the husband would only come, and the wife will come looking for her husband later.
He told me what to say to the husband and so I said it.Something along the line of" why are you keeping from God?".Then he dropped dead.
Right on cue two guys came walking up the dirt road and God told me to tell them to take him and bury him.They did.
And then I was told that the wife was to scared to come because she knew what they did was wrong.
God made a way for them to sell the house to give to the church but they kept some.Then he said "she's coming".I didn't want to believe it.Lo and behold there's a knock at the door.I open it and it's the guys wife.And she looks scared and asks for her husband.
I say the line God tells me to say.And she drops dead just as the two guys who finished burying her husband are walking up the drive way.They see her dropping dead,and we all had this fear in our eyes.
They are told to bury her too.
I feel that those who fall at their feet are people repenting.

When I gave myself to God and started reading the Bible for the first time.Seeing scripture like this after God showed me these visions was a real eye opener.The Word came alive to me.

hi! welcome! perhaps this will help---

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Rom 2:28-29)

To this, specifically: The seven churches were real-life local fellowships in the latter half of the first century. Do these letters contain lessons for today? Yes.

Are they some kind of summary of the historical church over time? No. Do these congregations somehow represent all modern churches? No.

There are major problems with such theories: they consistently over-represent the negative aspects of any church to which they are applied, under-represent the good points, and simply ignore things that "don't seem to fit". That's not how they were written, and not how they should be interpreted. Jesus's words were both specific and relevant. The Holy Spirit is quite capable of speaking specific encouragement or correction to local congregations today; we need not apply flawed hermeneutics in a vain attempt to sideline Him.

The way most understand this is that the 7 churches represent the actual communities of the early movement, but the message can be applied to all believers throughout all time (because people are still the same in nearly 2000 years; so a particular church can represent a type of believer, thematically).

Out of the seven churches, only two had a "good report" while the rest had cleaning up to do before it was too late. The fact that Messiah says several times to clean up before He comes further supports that His words can be applied to all believers throughout time since (a) He still hasn't appeared since these words were first shared and (b) the book begins by saying these words were sent to the servants of God to show them what must come to past (and clearly we have servants of God that exist today).

Taking the first passage (Rev 2:9), there's a distinction that the Messiah is making between the two groups.

The true Jews (whoever they are) were/are:
- suffering tribulation
- poor (i.e., without money/substance/riches)

By reason, this means that on a basic level, the fake Jews were not or have not suffered tribulation and were/are monetarily wealthy...but they claim the identity of Jews. Now history proves that there were two groups that claimed the identity, but one was persecuted terribly while the other amassed tremendous wealth through their dealings (particularly through banking).

History will also show that one group is genetically descended from Jacob while the other group converted to a religion called "Talmudism" which was first created by Pharisees in Babylon after the fall of Jerusalem. Talmudism was later renamed "Judaism", where - specific to this religion - there was a rule established that when a person converts to this faith they become genetic descendants of Jacob too, which I don't think is particularly how The Almighty reckons familial covenants.

----

Next, you have the phrase "synagogue of satan". If you recall in Stephen's speech where he judged the Pharisees, he mentioned a time in Israel's history when they worshipped false gods. Stephen then references how The Almighty condemned them through the prophet Amos...

Amos 5:25-27 (referenced in Acts 7:43)
Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god [remphan], which ye made to yourselves.

27 Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.

The Almighty judged ancient Israel for many offenses including bearing a star they made in the worship of a false god. Next, history will show that there were certain synagogues found with five-pointed and six-pointed stars etched into their structures during the time of the gospel. There are even ruins of an ancient synagogue in Capernaum - led by the Pharisee religious leadership - that still bear the six-pointed star.



The Almighty never had a star that represented Him and said not to learn the way the pagans worship and do it for Him.

Yet, we currently have the state of Israel that - upon its establishment - chose to bear the same star as its banner, calling it the Star of David. David never had a star either.



This was also the banner of who became the wealthiest and most powerful Jewish family in the world, the Rothschilds.

----

Next, the Amos passage says that the punishment of Israel for not worshiping The Almighty the way He commanded was expulsion from the land. This was the covenant that Israel and The Almighty established. As long as Jews do not accept the New Covenant (i.e. the Messiah) the covenant at Sinai remains in full effect, which means full obedience is required to remain in the land...and yet the Jewish people of the State of Israel:

- Do not accept the Messiah
- Are predominantly atheistic
- Do not obey the commandments but obey manmade religious traditions added by the Pharisees (which is exactly what Messiah condemned)
- Sin terribly (Tel Aviv is the 2nd LGBT capital of the world)
- Persecute others in the land

In other words, this group of people is doing everything that kicked the ancient children of Israel out of the land, and yet not only had they received the land in 1948 but have remained there... almost as if they weren't the descendants of those who ever established the Sinai covenant with The Almighty, so why would they ever be in violation of it? Never mind the fact that prophesy says that the Messiah Himself gathers them and leads them back into the land when He returns.

So why are they supposedly already there?

----

Let God be true and every man a liar (Romans 3:4)

Unless... He did.

Have you read Josephus' The Wars of the Jews?

No..haven't read it.

But then if He had come, we run into a problem with the rest of scripture that says what else is supposed to happen when He arrives. Nothing I read says He arrives, judges the churches, then leaves again.

Perhaps we have generally misunderstood what He told us, in part because we are unaware of the events of 70 AD.

Well, the only way to see is to dive in! What in particular have we misunderstood prophetically regarding 70 AD? Is it safe to assume you adhere to a preterist view, Dino? If I recall past conversations I think you agree with at least some things from that POV.

Full disclosure, I take the historicist view: that we are given a timeline of events that are progressively fulfilled through human history until the Messiah appears for a second time at the end of the age. In that view, where we currently are in 2023, I feel an awful lot has been fulfilled in the past 2000 or so years, and that we are at the very end now. But I don't believe all was fulfilled in 70 AD.

I don't "adhere" to any view in particular... partly because I don't think any "view" is free from flaws, and partly because many people are incapable of considering a different view without pigeonholing the one who suggests it for consideration... as you have done here.

What have you got against the Irish?

I haven't pigeonholed you at all, Dino.

^This is called an interrogative statement. Otherwise known as a question seeking clarification.

^This was me sharing the reason for the question, even pointing out that it wasn't full adherence but a degree as a reason for seeking clarification.

If I made a declarative statement about you then I would be guilty of what you've said.

----

Would you like to share an example of where you feel we are misunderstanding scripture or not, sir? Or would you like to continue this surface-level back and forth that won't get either of us anywhere?

Welcome!

Romans9:6b-8

Fair enough; I retract the accusation.

The seven letters in Revelation 2 and 3. Many people (not you necessarily) believe these are prophetic of the church through history. I honestly believe that is erroneous and is rooted in a lack of historical knowledge regarding the specific churches addressed.

I also believe that Jesus 'Olivet discourse' was intentionally clear in some points and obscure in others, and because of that, rightly understanding everything that He meant is difficult. The fulfillment of the instruction to flee Jerusalem is as clear as day to those who know the events of 70 AD, but people still argue about what "abomination of desolation" means. In my view, it doesn't matter, because it already happened! People read "the end of the age" as "the end of all things temporal on Earth" when 'the end of the Levitical age' fits the context perfectly. Instead of accepting what is plain and clear in light of historical events, we (the generic we) begin with an ignorance of history and are left trying to force-fit the text into today's newscast. People have been doing this publicly for decades, and have been consistently wrong, and usually without apology or retraction. I don't see that trend changing any time soon.

Does that mean I believe that everything has been fulfilled? No... of course not. However, I do believe that a lot more has been fulfilled than many Christians (especially American evangelicals) think.

For me, I take the following position similarly to when reading Paul's letters. Clearly, his letters were written to specific communities and their particular struggles at a specific time in history. However, I read them today because we are dealing with many of the same struggles, so the inspired instruction/correction is still relevant to us. Likewise, the Messiah corrected those past churches but if we are still guilty of committing the same infractions then His corrections equally apply to us too (wherever the shoe fits)...until He comes (which may be our only point of disagreement).

Agreed. But to explain why I agree; from my POV [Historicist], if we do take the Olivet Discourse - also taking both Luke's rendering in ch21 and Mark's rendering in ch13 - It is clear that the destruction of Jerusalem was the START of judgment upon the Jews for rejecting Him, followed by many other predicted events that necessarily needed/needs time to play out.

Timeline:
[Start] 70 AD Destruction of Jerusalem ---------->[other predicted events]----->[end]

...but just how much time was/is needed is determined by stitching other prophetic passages together.

This interpretation is reasonable to explore. But does this specifically tie back to your original suggestion (i.e., "that maybe The Messiah had already come and judged those early churches")? If so, how exactly?

AGREE FULLY. History is very important to me when confirming fulfillment. This point is specifically why I believe those who are currently in control of Jerusalem are the fulfillment of the pretenders prophesied in Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9. I can further flesh out my reasoning for this using Scripture if you'd like.



-----

It seems like you and I agree on a LOT of what you've shared so far. I'd say prophetic scripture is next to impossible to understand correctly when isolated. I've found that there are dozens of passages throughout Scripture that speak to many of the same series of events, for example, Old Testament passages prophesying the "great calamity" and "Jacob's trouble" that was predicted to fall on the people...are directly related to the events spelled out in the Olivet Discourse.

So we (generally speaking; not saying you are) shouldn't limit ourselves exclusively to the obviously prophetic passages we commonly explore (i.e., Matthew 24, Revelation, Daniel) when trying to understand end-time events. There are so many more passages that provide different "pieces", filling in necessary gaps.