Baptism

Note that Paul's letter to the Ephesians speaks of those being sealed with the Holy Ghost of promise AFTER they heard and believed the word of truth, the gospel of salvation. Acts 19:1-6 provides a detailed account of this truth in action:

"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.


The 12 Ephesians believed and acted in obedience to Paul's message and received the Holy Ghost.
"In whom (Jesus) ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:13)

like these gentiles then ?


“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-48‬ ‭

notice how no one ever receives the holy spirit and then Insists baptism isnt necessary ? They believe so they act on it. Receiving the holy spirit isn’t about remission of sins baptism for remission of sins is

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Like this our example

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water,

he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Water and spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,( water )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( spirit ) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The order doesn’t matter whether it’s the order on chapter ten or chapter two of acts is irrelevant there’s always water for remission in his name because one believes and spirit that is a gift from God because one believes. Remission of sins is when you hear this

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then you partake of baptism on his name which means among other things this

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( sin is remitted when we die Jesus is the atonement for our sins , it’s why we’re baptized and buried in his name and also lifted up again in his name it’s also why we take communion and in his name why we pray in his name ect )

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-6, 8, 11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Baptism isn’t cancelled by the spirit it was given by the holy spirit of God to man for remission of sins

right compare that to this

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there is no proscribed order it’s about bekieving the gospel being born of the spirit

and hearing about remission of sins of n him and getting baptized for remission in his name

Being born of water and spirit but the order is clearly not important we can get baptized for remission of sins then receive the spirit or we can receive the spirit because we hear and believe the truth and then act in faith and get baptized for remission of sins because we do believe the gospel

there seems to be an idea that spirit replaces water but this isn’t so baptism is for repentance and remission of sins

receiving the holy spirit is a promise Jesus made to his disciples then now and forever n the gospel paces like John chapter 14-16 Jesus eas promising when he was glorified he would send his spirit into the world for believers remission of sins is baptism both are Gods established plan

Thanks for clarifying. I agree. I haven't talked with many that understand this.

So are you saying baptism "in the name of" Jesus is NOT water baptism?

I believe the scriptures of course. Could you please clarify your point. I love that you recognize that the letter is written to Christians and then went to see how they were actually converted. I wish more people would do that.

Do you believe baptism "in the name of" Jesus is water?

Yes. Baptism in the name of Jesus is water baptism.

I pointed out Ephesians 1:13 as another confirmation of the truth expressed in the conversion accounts in Acts. That scripture does not contradict, as many suppose, but rather confirms the conversion accounts recorded in Acts.

Most don't understand a lot of things not just on this issue but many scriptural issues

a you know how in the gospel you have johns ministry and then Jesus starts preaching the gospel ?

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12-15, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Amen of course it’s something you do when you hear and believe the gospel like this

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-39‬ ‭

it seems like an endless circle though we can read these many accounts specifically showing us yeah baptism is performed in water and then make the argument

“ water baptism is this or that it’s not really baptism it doesn’t mean what scripture clearly and plainly says it means listen to me about this other baptism that’s not ever taught in scripture I’ll explain it to you “

it seems like just a circle basically on every subject it seems increasingly pointless to bring up what the Bible says in this forum lol ….. just fodder for arguments rather than answers we seek

I see this a lot around here, but what you're really saying is "I believe what I believe the Bible says."

But I really mean it I do my best to understand what the bible says. I will be quick to tell anyone, I don't know anything but what the bible tells me.

It is crazy and sad that we all have the same bible yet see very different things. It should not be so!!!

Which is why the statement I proposed is accurate.

why is it so?

“ Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The apostle Paul bout 30 years after that

“preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The apostle Peter

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus sent the truth into the world for salvation to all People

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now 1900 years later you have centuries of false teachers who have turned people so far from Jesus words in the gospel which are truth and life and spirit

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the issue is we let people “ explain “ how they are a teacher and are going to teach us how to properly believe the gospel Jesus sent to each believer sayong “ I will teach them “ I will dwell
In them myself “ I will lead them by my spirit , I will write my ways and laws upon thier heart , I will be the mediator I will teach believers my ways “

that’s why we’re called to hear and believe and share the gospel that Jesus already established it’s the truth from God to mankind and will save us

But then you have the false teachers who introduce alternative gospels and explain why the gospel Jesus said will save everyone who believes the ent the truth listen to thier gospel instead

jesus is the truth when we hear the gospel and start to let it in we are learning from God our father who teaches his children things like this but many refuse to believe the truth he came to witness

“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

….For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:9, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is a teaching of the lord later sent to all people in the gospel but the issue is many refuse to accept it because they have heard many teachers explaining other ideas bout God as if Jesus the son in the flesh isn’t going to know out God the father n heaven better than any human ever

We just have to think basics Jesus came and said hear me and believe and be saved now go tesch everyone the same things I taught you and they’ll all be saved i Jesus am the lord …..

so many won’t do that won’t learn from Jesus who was sent to teach us the truth to believe and be saved

Help me understand how you see the elders mentioned in the Acts 15 account. The pronouns indicate that they also received the Holy Spirit in the same manner.

I am reluctant to say Cornelius’s conversion was different because Peter says there were no (outhen/not one) distinctions between Cornelius, the apostles, and the elders present in Acts 15. He also said the same thing about the six who accompanied him to Cornelius in Acts 10. Peter‘s involvement did satisfy the requirement that the apostles be Jesus’ witnesses to the Gentiles in Acts 1:8. We can see this also with the Samaritans in Acts 8. They could not receive the Holy Spirit until the Apostles came. Again in accordance with Acts 1:8.

Cornelius' conversion wasn't different, a conversion is being converted to Christ; believing in him, then being obedient to that good news you heard and believed, subsequently resulting in repentance and being baptized into the body of Christ. That obviously did happen, similarly to the conversion of the Jews on the day of Pentecost, the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8, and others cited in scripture. But what was different was that the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles without the laying of an apostle's hands (Peter) first, as it was a miraculous manifestation of the Spirit (one of the gifts as delineated in 1 Cor 12:8-10), the reason being, it was validation from God that it was his will to bring the Gentiles into the church. The Holy Spirit fell 1st, and then, they (Cornelius and his) completed their conversion by being baptized into Christ at which point they received the gift of the Holy Ghost itself, the indwelling of the Spirit as taught by Acts 2:38, and were thus added to the Lord's body; this also was the beginning of the church amongst the Gentiles in Caesarea. This is the difference between Acts 10 and Acts 2. In Acts 2, the Holy Spirit fell miraculously also as a sign, but did so on the apostles who then spoke in tongues, resulting in the conversion of the Jews and the start of the church in Jerusalem.

Yes, a lot of years of different gospels and not using scripture properly. That's why I only recognize using scripture in context without adding/removing words.

I would suggest since the context is Jew/Gentile, Peter is referring to us a Jews. Also, both Acts 11&15 are referring back to Pentecost. A good question might be were the elders present at Pentecost.


I suggest comparing the conversions we have recorded in Acts and there are about 12. This one is totally different than all the others for a specific reason.

CorrectiveLens said:
Water baptism does not save. There is a believer's water baptism where the believer outwardly shows that he dies with Christ when he goes under water, and is resurrected to a new birth when he comes up. I suspect that this is a new practice in this age but is not required. It is the baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit that saves, not water and not the person that gets baptized. The Father chooses and grants repentance, the Son erases sins through belief in Jesus' death for the forgiveness of sins, and the Holy Spirit perfects when the person is indwelled with the Holy Spirit of the Father and Son who fill our hearts with the divine love necessary to obey the Spirit of the Law upon which the letter of the law is based. In the Old Testament Jews got spiritually cleansed by getting baptized in mikvehs, which are pools of water. They are still used and many synagogues have them built in.

DJT_47 replied


You are at odds with scripture


1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

CorrectiveLens reply:

I did not state that baptism does not save. I stated that Water Baptism does not save. Please read the rest of the paragraph to understand what kind of baptism does save. If water baptism does saves, then we wouldn't need Jesus.

There is one baptism that WE must do and that's baptism on water which goes back to John's. Baptism unless otherwise stated is always immersion in water. How does one get baptized otherwise and what scriptures state this that you're relying on? How were the Jews on the day of Pentecost baptized and how was the Ethiopian eunuch baptized as recoreded in Acts 8?