Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

Dino246 · Sep 27, 2023

Nah… I’m looking at scripture, now I might be interpreting it wrong, wouldn’t be the the first…. Anyhow… let’s take a look at scripture.

Lev 11:46-47

46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. (KJV)

But when it says "This is the law of the beasts..." (Lev 11:46) it is not like the Ten Commandment Law, it is rather like the "law" of leprosy in the below:

Lev 14:54

54 This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall, (KJV)

In other words it was God's explanation. Let me explain like this:

When God explains foods, He is giving His explanation on what is healthy to eat (i.e., what is clean to the human body to consume).
When God explains the Medicinal, He is giving His explanation on what is diagnosis and cures of sicknesses (i.e., what is the way to cleanse the human body of disease).
When God explains Commandments, He is giving His explanation on what is commanded by God of men to do and not to do (i.e., what is the way to eternal life of the human soul).

Below is God explaining food Laws, i.e., what is the way of foods for the body:

Lev 11:46-47

46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. (KJV)

Below is God explaining Disease Laws, i.e., what is the way of diagnosis and curing of the sick body:

Lev 14:54-57

54 This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall,

55 And for the leprosy of a garment, and of a house,

56 And for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot:

57 To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy. (KJV)

Commandment Laws, i.e., what is the way that men ought to act under penalty of eternal death:

Exod 20:1-4

1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (KJV) [Etc., the Ten Commandments continue through verse 17...]

Kinda looks like, if you break the food laws you get sick, if you break the medicinal laws you won't get cured, but if you break His Commandment Laws you are apt to end up in Hell. 😉

I see your point... up to where you cite "commandment laws". All of the instructions God gave Israel through Moses are "commandments". Many of them had simple, practical application, but they were Law nonetheless. Jews still avoid eating pork and shellfish, and many Christians think they are forbidden from doing so as well (though they aren't).

When we use the term "division of the Law" it is usually in the context of "which laws apply today [for Christians] and which don't?" That's why I say there is no such division in Scripture. So, perhaps we're just talking past each other. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened for me today.

Truthnightmare · Sep 27, 2023

Dino246 said:

I see your point... up to where you cite "commandment laws". All of the instructions God gave Israel through Moses are "commandments". Many of them had simple, practical application, but they were Law nonetheless. Jews still avoid eating pork and shellfish, and many Christians think they are forbidden from doing so as well (though they aren't).

When we use the term "division of the Law" it is usually in the context of "which laws apply today [for Christians] and which don't?" That's why I say there is no such division in Scripture. So, perhaps we're just talking past each other. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened for me today.

Yeah, funny how a single word or how most people utilize a phrase creates a certain type of authority.

JaumeJ · Sep 27, 2023

Dino246 said:
The law is a unit, not a group of commandments that one may or may not follow. You either follow it completely or you are a

lawbreaker.
So we would have to slaughter animals to not be guilty of lawbreaking.

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I believe this means no man is saved without the Grace afforded all by Jesus Yeshua. Do not search for Judaizers; for this has become the perpetual witch hunt in the BDF. Let us keep our minds on all things beautiful.

romans113336 · Sep 28, 2023

ServantoftheMostHigh said:

Actually, since, right after that, Jesus denounced Torah as not being up to God's true standards (eg, Torah says "pay your vows", but Jesus says taking vows is "of the evil one"), you have to understand those words differently. As Jesus shows, the Torah principle stands, but the way in which it is to manifest is raised to a higher level.

romans113336 · Sep 28, 2023

Deuteronomy said:

Hello @ServantoftheMostHigh, first and foremost, we cannot keep the Law of Moses "like Jesus did". If such a thing was/is possible, then neither the Incarnation nor the Cross would have happened (because they would not have been needed).

I like how theologian Dr. Leon Morris puts it (in one of his commentaries). Here is an excerpt concerning v20 from that commentary concerning this matter.

Matthew 5
20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

20. "For" links the following on and is possibly explanatory, “for, as you see.” I tell you puts some emphasis on the surprising statement that follows: Jesus calls for his followers to have a "righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees".

He is surely using the term righteousness in a sense different from that which the scribes and Pharisees attached to it. They looked for strict legal correctness, whereas Jesus looked for love. They stressed the keeping of the law, and from the standpoint of the lawkeeper it is not easy to see how anyone could exceed their righteousness. Along the lines of lawkeeping who could possibly exceed the righteousness of those who tithed mint, dill, and cummin (Matthew 23:23)?

But Jesus has already spoken of a different kind of righteousness (Matthew 3:15), and it is central to the Christian gospel that Jesus would fulfil all that Scripture means in making a new way, a way in which he would bring those who believe in Him to salvation. This does not mean cheap grace, for the words of this verse bring out the truth that those who have been touched by Jesus live on a new plane, a plane in which the keeping of God’s commandments is important.

Their righteousness is a given righteousness.

Nowhere do we get the idea that the servant of God achieves in his own strength the kind of living that gives him right standing before God. But when he is given that standing, Jesus looks to him to live in accordance with that standing.

Later in this sermon Jesus will emphasize the spirit rather than the letter of the law. The Pharisees put a tremendous emphasis on the letter of the law, but Jesus was looking for something very different from the Pharisaic standard. For them it was a matter of observing regulations (and softening them where possible), but for Him it was keeping the commandments in depth; He taught a radical obedience.

~Morris, L. (1992). The Gospel according to Matthew (pp. 110–111). W.B. Eerdmans; Inter-Varsity Press.

I remember reading about a popular 1st Century rabbinic teaching concerning the "keeping" of Torah. Since every (honest) Jew back then realized that keeping/obeying the Law perfectly (or even close to perfectly) was impossible, the idea was put forth that if a person could obey just ~one~ of the 613 Laws perfectly, from adulthood to the grave, God would be ok with that.

James 2:10-11 is just one of the verses/passages that explains why that rabbinic belief/teaching could not be true, so the Father sent the Lord Jesus here to live a perfectly righteous life before Him on our behalf (the life that we were supposed to live before Him, but could not), and then to die on the Cross in our stead to atone for/save us from both the power of our sins (in this life) and from the penalty of our sins and His wrath in the age to come.

Therefore, Jesus is our only innocence, our only righteousness, and the only atonement and satisfaction for our sins and His wrath.

HAPPY NEW YEAR

GOD BLESS YOU!!

~Deuteronomy

2 Corinthians 5

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

It just dawned on me: Jesus reprimanded the religious hypocrites for neglecting the "weightier measures of the Law", so, if there are some aspects that are "lighter" than others, and the Pharisees' error was focusing in on the comparatively miniscule aspects of the Law, it would be easy for someone in whom God is working and fulfilling the weightier measures of the Law to surpass them.

JaumeJ · Sep 28, 2023

Let your yay be yay and your nay be nay. We have no right nor power to even swear on our own soul, and we must thank God for this.

When we say it, we must do it.

NilsForChrist · Oct 3, 2023

Dino246 said:

Exactly

JacobMartinMertens · Oct 3, 2023

ServantoftheMostHigh said:

I've heard other sincere believers say that since Jesus kept the Laws of Moses we should keep them or at least try and somehow that is following Him. Is this what Jesus was talking about in these passages?

Mathew 5:17-20 Jesus said, Do not think that I came to destroy the law and the prophets. No , I have not come to destroy them , but to fulfil them... whoever breaks the least of these commandment , and teaches men so, he will be called the least in the kingdom....

Mathew 5 verse 20 For I(JESUS) say to you, unless your rightousness exceeds the rightousness of the scribes and the pharisees, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

In verse 17, Jesus said we're teach and do the law of Moses to be great in the kingdom and in verse 20 Jesus said unless your rightousness exceeds the rightousness of the Law you'll in no case enter the kingdom of heaven.
Are we to do both, keep the Law of Moses like Jesus, and keep Jesus words in red . Would that be exceeding the scribes and pharisees rightousness?

What does it mean that Jesus has fulfilled the Law and the Prophets?

Soyeong · Oct 11, 2023

ServantoftheMostHigh said:

Indeed, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6)

Jesus was much more zealous for obedience to the Mosaic Law than the Pharisees were and he never criticized them for obeying it, but he did criticize them for not obeying it or for not obeying it correctly.

For example, in Mark 7:6-9, Jesus criticized them as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions. In Matthew 4, whenever Jesus directly quoted from Scripture, he proceeded it by saying "it is written", but in Matthew 5, when Jesus quoted from what the people had heard being said, preceded it by saying "you have heard that it was said...", so he was fulfilling the law by correcting what the people had heard being incorrectly said about it and by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally intended. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness, so he was calling them to have a higher level of obedience to it in a manner that was in accordance with its weightier matters.

In Matthew 4

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Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

Dino246

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Truthnightmare

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JaumeJ

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romans113336

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