What is a successful church or ministry?

I made a comment on another thread, and it got me to thinking.

I referred to pastors of successful churches.

When I made the comment, I was looking at three characteristics. First the church preaches and teaches the Word. Second the congregation is made up of all ages, nationalities, and classes of people. Finally the church takes the Word beyond the doors and into the surrounding community. When these things are present, souls are being saved. If the baptismal pool is dry, there is something missing in the church.

What do you think?

If one posits that an individual is successful to the degree he or she is conformed to the image of Christ, then it follows that the success of a church would be measured by how well it does aiding those in attendance to be so conformed.
I would agree with #1 because this is the heart of the great commission. The makeup of a church is in the purview of Jesus, who should be the One building the church so I don't see that #2 applies. #3 is a good goal for any church, but if the goal is growth it is wrongly motivated. Church growth shouldn't be seen in terms of an increase in people. Rather, it should be the growth of those attending.

most assuredly, when someone becomes saved, he or she is going to want to be baptized also. must have baptismal opportunities.

Finding the plan He has for each of our lives and walking it out in obedience is always the successful way.

I believe that the makeup of the congregation should represent the makeup of the community that it serves. If it doesn't, it is a good time to take a close look at the church outreach ministry.

I believe that the future of any church can be predicted by the looking at the ages of the congregation members.

I agree. How do we know if a church is and will continue to help members find that plan?

We disagree on what the makeup should be because we disagree on who is building the church. As far as ages go as a predictor of the future viability of a church I believe depends on your definition of "church". If you mean still having people meeting together you would be right. If you mean a gathering of God's people, then faithfully executing the great commission will generally suffice.

Incidentally, simply because a diverse group of people gather together and perform religious activities regularly doesn't necessarily constitute a church. Many churches began through a work of God but no longer have God in attendance. I'm not suggesting this is true of your church. I am suggesting that many churches that started well and were rich with the presence and power of God have become meeting places of religious activity, void of God's presence and power. I believe this is so because people became more enamored with with what looks successful in men's view rather than through God's eyes.

A successful church is one in which the Holy Spirit is in charge, not man.

We were given Dominion in Chapter one, Holy Spirit was sent as a helper.

The Word of God—all of it—should be taught diligently.

Holy Spirit teaches the Word of G-d without error.
People can miss the mark.
Blessings

Just as Jesus created the world and gave man dominion over it, so too did He create the church and has given dominion of it to man. But man's dominion over creation was never meant to be exercised apart from Jesus. Likewise, man's dominion over the church is not to be exercised apart from the Holy Spirit.

"Never intended to be apart from Jesus" ?
Very interesting and well worth meditation,.
Thank you kindly dear brother

Now- isn't that better than some of the knock down, drag out, exchanges we have seen? lol!

Why else did Jesus come each day and walk with Adam and Eve? No doubt He found enjoyment in the interaction. But surely He was there to give guidance and life. Just as Jesus maintains creation in general, His words would preserve and impart life to its hearers.

I don't see where it was Jesus, says to me it was the Father.

No man can has seen God and lived. Jesus has always been the Son, and done the heavy lifting. What is the word for God in Genesis 1:1? To whom does it refer?

The word Created in the OT also means "revealed'.
The Creation story is about man created to tend the garden, and He, the Creator would meet with them in the cool of the evening.
We were in the Garden, in one on one fellowship, there was no need for an intercessor as there was no sin yet.
blessings good friend and brother

Here is where there is a misunderstanding. It is not pastors but God who makes a church what it should be. And "successful" is an inappropriate term. "Effective" would be more like it. And to be effective the church should simply implement the pattern given by the first church -- the one at Jerusalem. It is all spelled out in Acts 2.

They invited Holy Spirit to come with wisdom, guidance, instruction, etc.

It is the pastor's responsibility to keep the church focused on and continuing to grow in the word of God.

I like the term "effective" too. I also agree with you on using the first church as a pattern.

What was the first churches pattern of worship? They met together daily.

Who did the first church reach out to? Everyone who would listen.

How was the success of the first church measured? Souls were added daily.

We can note from Paul's church planting ministry that he continuously monitored the churches growth and reacted to their problems.