Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

Hello turbo. Thanks for your Q. It's good to discuss this emotive subject in a friendly manner and share viewpoints. I'll think about what you said. That's a tough passage you quoted, in more ways than one!

In 1 Corinthians 5 there's a specific case then a general principle.

Verse 5: hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

This man in verse 5 who is handed over to Satan, the purpose it says is that his spirit maybe saved. A shock to cause him to repent. If he is indeed born again he will be saved.

Verse 11: But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler.

The key word in verse 11 is 'claims'. Claiming is not automatically being. Professing to know God but denying him by their works (Titus 1:16). It reminds me of the Lord Jesus talking about watching for wolves in sheep's clothing (Matthew 7:15). A wolf was never a sheep, it's a predator in disguise. When a wolf is unmasked as a wolf it hasn't lost it's salvation, it hasn't lost it's membership of the flock, it was never of the flock to begin with. So booting an immoral person out, it seems like protecting the flock from a wolf in disguise, however in the perhaps less likely case of verse 5, a born again believer in some dreadful situation, the shock of being turned over to Satan is that he may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Hope this is of some interest, God Bless

I should have asked if we could take it slow, sorry. If we put too much out there at one time, points tend to get buried and never realized. I’m glad you use scripture and explain your understanding of the scripture. You’ve made a lot of statements I would love to address and hopefully we will in time. So If it's ok with you, I would like to go back to the point I was trying to make.

You said and remain so, by what Christ alone did, not by what they may do or not do. I submitted my rebuttal proof text in Matt. 25 because it directly addressed your statement.
Your reply The "lambs" of Matthew 25 were made so by Christ Could you point to the part of the passage, and/or context of the chapter, that tells us that?

I should have asked if we could take it slow, sorry. If we put too much out there at one time, points tend to get buried and never realized. I’m glad you use scripture and explain your understanding of the scripture. You’ve made a lot of statements I would love to address and hopefully we will in time. So If it's ok with you, I would like to go back to the point I was trying to make.

You said and remain so, by what Christ alone did, not by what they may do or not do. I submitted my rebuttal proof text in Matt. 25 because it directly addressed your statement.
Your reply The "lambs" of Matthew 25 were made so by Christ Could you point to the part of the passage, and/or context of the chapter, that tells us that?

The Israelites were saved out of Egypt in the sense that they were delivered out of Egypt.

the text says believed not/did not believe and NOT 'quit' believing.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Humans are not born perfect but are conceived in sin. (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

God's warnings in Jude 1:5,6 stands, your opposing opinion does not.




They would have been destroyed or rejected long before coming out of Egypt if they were never believers in the first place as you suppose.

These verses speak of those that turned away and QUIT believing:

Those that Turned Away from the Lord

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

*By addressing this to “brethren” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.




Those that turn away from Him... are those that turn away from Him going back to sin have become wicked once again and will be cut off as they have sown to the flesh and have reaped corruption... they turned away and decided to forsake the Lord.




That's false on it's face! David's mother was living in sin when David was conceived, and Romans 5:12 says sin came UPON all men and all have sinned... not that men were all born sinners.

It also says righteousness came UPON all men in Romans 18 so you must think all men are now saved (universalism) You can't have it both ways which is why verse 18 is left out of your comments.

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life.

It's obvious here that you suffer from an acute form of Cherry Pickers Syndrome (CPS) where one only accepts a few happy verses that fits their preconceived ideas and ignore or explain away the rest of God's Word.

The Lord forms us in the womb (Jeremiah 1:5), so for all to have been born sinners... this mean you'd have to claim that GOD made all people to be sinners.

God's Word clearly teaches that children are not being held responsible for their father's sins (Deuteronomy 24:16) and the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him (Ezekiel 18:20-32)

God's Word actually says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) so we are only held responsible for our own sin, not Adam's sin.

What Adam did caused sin and darkness to come UPON all men providing them with opportunity to sin.

What Jesus did caused righteousness to come UPON all men providing them with opportunity to become righteous. (Romans 18)

Titus 2:11,12 (biblical definition of God's Grace)
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

Only those abiding IN CHRIST can be righteous... those that turn away from the Lord to go back to their sin... God did not forsake them, they turned away and just like we see in Jesus teaching on the prodical son the Father considered His son dead while he was turned away but alive again once he returned unto the Father.

nothing that can separate us from the love of God.

God loved every person that went to hell.... yet they went to hell anyway because they refused to abide IN CHRIST and instead choose to abide in the devil.

As I have already posted, some turn away from the Lord and choose to follow doctrines of demons... when one does this, they are no longer "elect" and are no hell bound.

Unless they confess their sin and forsake their sin and come back to the Lord and abide in Him once again... like the prodigal son did.

God's warnings in Jude 1:5,6 stands, your opposing opinion does not.




They would have been destroyed or rejected long before coming out of Egypt if they were never believers in the first place as you suppose.

These verses speak of those that turned away and QUIT believing:

Those that Turned Away from the Lord

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

*By addressing this to “brethren” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.




Those that turn away from Him... are those that turn away from Him going back to sin have become wicked once again and will be cut off as they have sown to the flesh and have reaped corruption... they turned away and decided to forsake the Lord.




That's false on it's face! David's mother was living in sin when David was conceived, and Romans 5:12 says sin came UPON all men and all have sinned... not that men were all born sinners.

It also says righteousness came UPON all men in Romans 18 so you must think all men are now saved (universalism) You can't have it both ways which is why verse 18 is left out of your comments.

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life.

It's obvious here that you suffer from an acute form of Cherry Pickers Syndrome (CPS) where one only accepts a few happy verses that fits their preconceived ideas and ignore or explain away the rest of God's Word.

The Lord forms us in the womb (Jeremiah 1:5), so for all to have been born sinners... this mean you'd have to claim that GOD made all people to be sinners.

God's Word clearly teaches that children are not being held responsible for their father's sins (Deuteronomy 24:16) and the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him (Ezekiel 18:20-32)

God's Word actually says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) so we are only held responsible for our own sin, not Adam's sin.

What Adam did caused sin and darkness to come UPON all men providing them with opportunity to sin.

What Jesus did caused righteousness to come UPON all men providing them with opportunity to become righteous. (Romans 18)

Titus 2:11,12 (biblical definition of God's Grace)
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

Only those abiding IN CHRIST can be righteous... those that turn away from the Lord to go back to their sin... God did not forsake them, they turned away and just like we see in Jesus teaching on the prodical son the Father considered His son dead while he was turned away but alive again once he returned unto the Father.

Only those IN CHRIST are righteous. Only those abiding IN CHRIST bear fruit. Otherwise, we would need salvation every day, and many times each day.
Instead, when we are saved, we are placed positionaly IN CHRIST. As we learn to walk in the Spirit, we abide.
Once we are placed, more accurately, INTO Christ, there is nothing that can separate us from the love of God.

The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. This is not something that only elite saints do, but all genuine saints.

1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit... 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Only those IN CHRIST are righteous. Only those abiding IN CHRIST bear fruit. Otherwise, we would need salvation every day, and many times each day.
Instead, when we are saved, we are placed positionaly IN CHRIST. As we learn to walk in the Spirit, we abide.
Once we are placed, more accurately, INTO Christ, there is nothing that can separate us from the love of God.

God loved every person that went to hell....

In all times, there have been those who have attached themselves to God who later fell away. But there has never been one whom God has attached Himself to who has ever fallen out of Christ.

Do you always abide in Christ?

Scripture says otherwise. "As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” - Romans 9:13 ESV

More buffoonery from John Calvin and his followers!

God is NO respecter of persons... He does not elect some and then reject others as you suppose... which is false doctrine from that UN-repentant (according to him) murderer John Calvin

More buffoonery from John Calvin and his followers!

God is NO respecter of persons... He does not elect some and then reject others as you suppose... which is false doctrine from that UN-repentant (according to him) murderer John Calvin





Yes. I do not knowingly or willing commit sin or do sinful things.

It should be a rare occurrence for Christians to sin and IF they did it's not something that knew was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.




It's very obvious from God's Word that He does not want any to perish and out of love has provided opportunity for ALL to be saved (Limited Atonement is a lie!)

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Esau taught false doctrine so... that's why he was hated.

Clearly, then, "elect" doesn't mean what they think it means!

Esau taught false doctrine so... that's why he was hated.

That's not what scripture says. You just like to make stuff up as you go along.

So your claim is he was in right standing with the Lord.... and one day the Lord just decided... "meh, I jhust hate that guy... for no reason in particular"

No, it does not.

Once someone turns away from the Lord... they cease being one of the elects.

Not sure why the OSAS peoples have a problem with not turning away from the Lord... I guess they like to keep the door open to do a little sin on the weekends and get all freakly deaky... just don't let the pastor find out!