Works Complete Faith?

Well....its a good time to brush up on the book of James. The second (maybe first) most misunderstood book in all the NT no doubt.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/52919654562847/
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/92212148263/
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/83112127523/

Chronister absolutely destroys the commonly held erroneous view.
You need to FF the first lecture by at least 50%.

To my knowledge, nobody here on CC has yet to correctly exegete James ch 2.
You are basically dealing with love of wealth materialistic unbelieving pharisaism vs love of God faith based believing.
The pharisaic frauds LOVE their wealth and DO NOT in fact edify the Body with it.......they hoard wealth to themselves.

A perfect complement to the rest of the Bible as it speaks to this matter.

James 2:
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Turnaround is fair play. You get what you give. Suck it up, buttercup.

The theme of meditation for me this week has emerged as a consideration of the answer to "what is the condemnation of the devil?" and a tributary I've come upon is "what is an 'unclean spirit'?"

It seems your view is inverted from the conclusion that I've reached, that either justification or condemnation will determine that which one walks in.

BTW.....nowhere in this chapter does it say that you need works to be saved. Nowhere.

Amen! In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead.

If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) James certainly does address true and false faith.

The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Nowhere do we see "true faith" and "false faith" in James's epistle.

He compares faith to a body--it's either complete (with its spirit) or incomplete (without its spirit). He doesn't say "Dead faith is like a mannequin--a false body!" A dead body is not a false body, a mannequin, it's an incomplete body. 🤣

That's exactly his point about faith--you can't just have faith, you must also walk in faith.

Simple.

That is, whether one believes they are justified or that they are condemned, whether clean or unclean, that is the spirit by which they will walk.

Says/claims (key word) to have faith = empty profession of faith/dead faith in James 2:14.

In regard to James 2:26, I never said false body and the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

https://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html

Genuine faith in Christ, James says, will produce a changed life and result in good works (James 2:20–26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his or her life.

The works are an outward show of genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26)—and it’s that outward show that “justifies” the believer in the sight of other people.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/80-20/the-characteristics-of-false-and-true-faith
The Characteristics of False and True Faith

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.gotquestions.org/faith-vs-works.html

Works are the product of faith. Those who have true faith in Jesus Christ will be “eager to do what is good” (Titus 2:14). John the Baptist called for “fruit in keeping with repentance” (Matthew 3:8). The book of James emphasizes the nature of true saving faith as that which results in good works: “Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead” and “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead” (James 2:17, 26). Grace through faith saves, and that faith is manifest in works. If someone claims to have faith yet exhibits no good works, his or her faith is “dead,” or nonexistent.

The faith vs. works debate, then, is really no debate at all. Both faith and works are integral parts of the Christian life. Biblically, faith is the cause of salvation, while works are the evidence of it.

2 Timothy 2:19

Nevertheless the foundation of EL(Theos, Elohim, YAH, God) stands sure, having this seal, The Adonai knows them that are His. And, Let every one that names the Name of Messiah depart from iniquity.

Says/claims (key word) to have faith = empty profession of faith/dead faith in James 2:14.

In regard to James 2:26, I never said false body and the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Obviously something's wrong indeed. Jesus never knew these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 which means they were never saved. These many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and not in Christ alone. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ - Romans 3:24-28; Philippians 3:9) was still stained with sin.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Instead of Lord, Lord, didn't WE, the correct answer for these many people in Matthew 7:22 would have been Lord, Lord, didn't YOU die for our sins, were buried and rise again the third day to provide for us eternal life? We trust in you alone as the all-sufficient means of our salvation.

In regard to Matthew 7:21-23, (I will never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church) I read Matthew 7:22 and was astonished! I remember thinking to myself, these many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of the natural man who believes that obtaining salvation is based on works.

That's exactly his point about faith--you can't just have faith, you must also walk in faith.

No, the Corinthians had genuine faith but didn't walk in faith but after the flesh.

YOU are so WRONG ____Faith is a Substance ------Faith is your title deed ---your assurance to God's promises ------Faith bring your unseen hope into this Seen realm -------

NOTE :_---You need to get a grip and stop spouting your own Human understanding of what Faith is and isn't ----you are wrongly dividing the Word of truth ------and that is the Truth --------

HEBREWS 11 ---NKJB
By Faith We Understand
11 Now faith is the [a]substance of things hoped for, the [b]evidence of things not seen.

I say ---understanding what Substance means is needed here -------

Strong's Concordance
hupostasis: a support, substance, steadiness, hence assurance

a support, substance, steadiness, assurance
Usage: (lit: an underlying), (a) confidence, assurance, (b) a giving substance (or reality) to, or a guaranteeing, (c) substance, reality.


Hebrews 11----- AMP BIBLE

The Triumphs of Faith
11 Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].

I say ------when you walk in Faith -----your walking in Confidence and Assurance That what God says in His word will come to pass ------




No------- they didn't Have Genuine Faith -----they had False Faith and were Disguising themselves as Christ Apostles ------so again you need to do what the Scripture says ----In Wisdom Get Understanding--Proverbs 4:7

View attachment 256305

Oops!

"Can that faith SAVE him?"