Baptism

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Everlasting-Grace

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#81
Dec 18, 2021
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#81
turbosixx said:
The bible says So those who received his word
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Which means they repented. they came from a point of unbelief, to a point of belief.. and they recieved his words in faith.

I think we can agree means believed and repented were baptized,
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No we can not agree. water baptism came AFTER they recieved the word, afgter they repented. and after they recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit

hopefully we can agree based on the context is water. and there were added that day about three thousand souls Those who believe and were baptized and having received the Holy Spirit were added. Just as Jesus instructed the apostles days earlier Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved
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Again, we can not agree.

they had faith and believed because they repented. Just as jesus said in John 3. he who believes is not condemned

again, you can not use mark 16 without making it equal john 3..

If I understand what you are suggesting, are you asking what did those who only repented receive? The bible does not tell us. I'm curious of your thought on this. Based on the context, those who repented were baptized in the name of Jesus.
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Jesus said in John 3, he who believes is born again.

how are they born? Of the spirit

there is no baptism mentioned.

They were already baptized with the spirit.. proven by the fact, they had received the spirit.

see also eph 1: 13 - 14.. again, no baptism.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

see, Not only have they recieved the HS, they were sealed with him,, which is proof they have eternal life.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#82
Dec 18, 2021
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#82
turbosixx said:
I suggest this isn't really a good argument. Would you want me to use this tactic with you?
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No

I just want you to show me the word baptize.

Jesus told Nicodemus (and us) how to be born again of the spirit.

show me where he said we are to be baptized.

if you can not. I must assume I am correct..
 
D

DJT_47

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#83
Oct 20, 2022
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#83
hornetguy said:
And, I'm going to leave this pointless back and forth... it is gaining us nothing. I have more useful things to do.... blessings on you all.
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These guys are delusional hornetguy. Trying to converse with them, and you know who they are, is like trying to converse with a toilet being flushed.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#84
Dec 18, 2021
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#84
DJT_47 said:
These guys are delusional hornetguy. Trying to converse with them, and you know who they are, is like trying to converse with a toilet being flushed.
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thats exactly what it is like in conversing with water people..
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#85
Feb 24, 2009
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#85
Again, the book of John is about knowing you have eternal life and it barely mentions baptism at all.

It is through belief in Jesus as God and Saviour that eternal life is given. Not by immersion in water.

Immersion in water is the picture of the salvation act ..not the means of the salvation.

Born of water in John 3 is water at birth. That is the type in question. Jesus does not change the subject of water at birth but adds being later being born of the Spirit.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#86
Jul 18, 2017
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#86
Everlasting-Grace said:
unless one is born of water and spirit (2 births) Jesus is explaining what born again means.. not one birth but two births.. one in water (flesh) one in spirit (spirit)
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THE FLESH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SPIRIT. Do not persist in your errors. Natural birth is a given, and in fact Christ clearly contrasted natural birth with supernatural birth. When He said "that which is born of the flesh is flesh" He also included the sin nature, since "flesh" applies to both the human body and the indwelling sin nature. Now what does the sin nature have to do with the New Birth? In fact the New Birth is a rejection of the sin nature.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#87
Dec 18, 2021
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#87
Nehemiah6 said:
THE FLESH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SPIRIT. Do not persist in your errors.
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I never said it did.

please do not persist in your false accusation and misunderstanding

Natural birth is a given, and in fact Christ clearly contrasted natural birth with supernatural birth. When He said "that which is born of the flesh is flesh" He also included the sin nature, since "flesh" applies to both the human body and the indwelling sin nature. Now what does the sin nature have to do with the New Birth? In fact the New Birth is a rejection of the sin nature.
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Have you ever witnessed a flesh birth? or seen a mothers water break?

if not. You could not understand
 
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turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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#88
Everlasting-Grace said:
No we can not agree. water baptism came AFTER they recieved the word, afgter they repented. and after they recieved the gift of the Holy Spirit
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This seems to be the sticking point thinking water baptism came AFTER they received the Holy Spirit.

If you told me already, I apologize.
Could you please explain how you see this verse. I assumed but maybe I should ask, do you see baptism in this verse as being water?
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

My understanding, after believing Peter tells them to repent, be baptized and then they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Not baptized with the Holy Spirit.
 
wattie

wattie

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#89
Feb 24, 2009
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#89
turbosixx said:
This seems to be the sticking point thinking water baptism came AFTER they received the Holy Spirit.

If you told me already, I apologize.
Could you please explain how you see this verse. I assumed but maybe I should ask, do you see baptism in this verse as being water?
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

My understanding, after believing Peter tells them to repent, be baptized and then they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Not baptized with the Holy Spirit.
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And entire group receiving the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as individual indwelling..for a start.
 
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turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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#90
wattie said:
And entire group receiving the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as individual indwelling..for a start.
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I would suggest that even though a large crowd, it was also individual.
“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
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turbosixx

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#91
wattie said:
Born of water in John 3 is water at birth.
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Do you see this as water?
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
 
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Gideon300

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#92
Mar 18, 2021
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#92
hornetguy said:
Where does it say this?
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The parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector tells us that the tax collector was forgiven because he confessed his sin. No mention of baptism. The thief on the cross was not baptised. Jesus forgave the sins of many without them being baptised. I was born again and forgiven before I was baptised. Every born again believer should be baptised by immersion. However, it's an act of obedience after the born again experience, not in order to be forgiven.
 
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turbosixx

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#93
Gideon300 said:
The parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector tells us that the tax collector was forgiven because he confessed his sin. No mention of baptism. The thief on the cross was not baptised. Jesus forgave the sins of many without them being baptised. I was born again and forgiven before I was baptised. Every born again believer should be baptised by immersion. However, it's an act of obedience after the born again experience, not in order to be forgiven.
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May I suggest you might be overlooking an important fact. Were the tax collector and the thief saved by the gospel?
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
 
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CorrectiveLens

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Dec 30, 2020
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#95
wattie said:
Yes... immersion in water.
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You make disciples through preaching and it is through preaching that people get baptized by the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is they who do the baptizing, not us.
Acts 9: 17-18 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Spirit. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales; and he received sight, and arose, and was baptized.
In verse 10-16 Ananias has a vision of the Lord telling him that Saul in his praying also had a vision of Ananias putting his hand on him and getting his vision back. When it actually happened, Saul believed and was baptized immediately.
 
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CorrectiveLens

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#96
We are baptized in the name of the Father when we recognize that we are sinners and He grants the repentance that causes us to turn to Him for forgiveness. We get baptized in the name of the Son when we trust in the Father's plan for the forgiveness of sins committed through Jesus Christ, and then Christ baptizes us in the name of the Holy Spirit when we get filled with the Holy Spirit of the Father and Son who perfect us by filling our hearts with divine love for God first and and everyone else second as the motivation for every thought and action. John said that he baptized with water, but there will be someone who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.
 
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turbosixx

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Sep 16, 2023
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#97
wattie said:
Yes... immersion in water.
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Thanks, I just wanted to be sure. It's hard to accurately move forward making assumptions.

In John 3, Jesus tells Nicodemus that unless one is born of water and Spirit he can not enter. Jesus is looking forward to after He purchases the church with His blood. The Holy Spirit was not poured out until after His death, burial and resurrection on the day of Pentecost.
Before He ascended, He tells the apostles to baptize the believers.
On the day of Pentecost Peter tells the believers to be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit. We see the water and Spirit Jesus was looking forward to.

I suggest to you just as Jesus said, water and Spirit go together. Please consider.
Acts 8 Philip baptizes the believers, in the name of Jesus, but they didn't receive any spiritual gifts. Peter and John come down and lay hands on them to give them spiritual gifts.
who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

Then we see Paul runs across some believers who were baptized but not in the name of Jesus. Paul did not lay hands on them until they had been baptized in the name of Jesus.
Acts 19:2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

Those in Acts 8 had been baptized in the name of Jesus, so all Peter had to do was lay hands. Those in Acts 19 had not so Paul had to baptize them in the name of Jesus then lay hands on them. Water and Spirit.
 
wattie

wattie

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#98
turbosixx said:
Thanks, I just wanted to be sure. It's hard to accurately move forward making assumptions.

In John 3, Jesus tells Nicodemus that unless one is born of water and Spirit he can not enter. Jesus is looking forward to after He purchases the church with His blood. The Holy Spirit was not poured out until after His death, burial and resurrection on the day of Pentecost.
Before He ascended, He tells the apostles to baptize the believers.
On the day of Pentecost Peter tells the believers to be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit. We see the water and Spirit Jesus was looking forward to.

I suggest to you just as Jesus said, water and Spirit go together. Please consider.
Acts 8 Philip baptizes the believers, in the name of Jesus, but they didn't receive any spiritual gifts. Peter and John come down and lay hands on them to give them spiritual gifts.
who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

Then we see Paul runs across some believers who were baptized but not in the name of Jesus. Paul did not lay hands on them until they had been baptized in the name of Jesus.
Acts 19:2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

Those in Acts 8 had been baptized in the name of Jesus, so all Peter had to do was lay hands. Those in Acts 19 had not so Paul had to baptize them in the name of Jesus then lay hands on them. Water and Spirit.
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Okay..before going onto other passages.. the book of John is about receiving eternal life. How is it done? By believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. That He is God...died and rose again, and whoever believes in Him will have everlasting life.

That is the message of salvation all through the book of John .

Going to John 3... Nicodemus is questioning how can a man be born a second time .. referring to water of the womb.

Jesus doesnt change the subject .. but talks about after birth ..later if a person believes in Jesus, they will be born of the Spirit.

That is the context...water of the womb. That's the subject of Nicodemus question.

In Acts 19.. these are already disciples who believed.

Disciples of Apollos who had believed.

Apollos didn't know the right way of baptism and his followers needed to be baptised again in Jesus' name.

They didn't know about the Holy Spirit...that doesnt mean the Holy Spirit hadn't actually indwelled each of them .

When the received the Spirit, it was as an entire group. That is how a church is formed. The Holy Spirit comes 'in the midst'
 
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turbosixx

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#99
wattie said:
That is the message of salvation all through the book of John .
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The way I see it, the whole bible is the message of salvation.

wattie said:
That is the context...water of the womb. That's the subject of Nicodemus question.
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It's the subject of Nicodemus question because that is how he thinks, fleshly. Nic was trusting his birth (fleshly) into the Jewish nation for salvation. Jesus is telling him that birth will not save him. He needs to be born again, spiritually. Water of the womb is fleshly birth. Baptism in the name of Jesus is spiritual birth.

wattie said:
In Acts 19.. these are already disciples who believed.

Disciples of Apollos who had believed.

Apollos didn't know the right way of baptism and his followers needed to be baptised again in Jesus' name.

They didn't know about the Holy Spirit...that doesnt mean the Holy Spirit hadn't actually indwelled each of them .

When the received the Spirit, it was as an entire group. That is how a church is formed. The Holy Spirit comes 'in the midst'
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Yes, Apollos didn't know the right baptism. We can't be taught wrong and baptized right.
If baptism is just an outward showing of an inward change, they had already been water baptized, why didn't Paul just lay hands on them as Peter did in chapter 8? They had already been water baptized, why baptize again and then lay hands? Why not lay hands first then baptize in the name of Jesus?
This is the last recorded conversion. What we see it's just like the first recorded conversions, be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit.

That is what we see in the bible (1)water and (2)spirit unless one is born of (1)water and the (2)Spirit,

be (1)baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the (2)Holy Spirit

they were (1)baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the (2)Holy Spirit came on them,
 
Underwhosewings

Underwhosewings

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#100
Ephesians 1:13 KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:

in whom also after that ye believed,

ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 
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