Can there be forgiveness without repentance?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
#1
I have seen stories on the news, where a family forgives a murderer, even though the murderer does not repent of what they did. They admit to what they did, but are not sorry. How can anyone offer forgiveness to someone who has not repented? Is this an example of casting your pearls before swine?
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
1,178
573
113
#2
Luke 17:3-4

"Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him."
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
#3
Luke 17:3-4

"Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him."
If he repent, forgive him...the key there is if he repents
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,953
961
113
44
#5
You absolutely have to repent to be saved, as clearly discussed so far, Jesus says so. To say repentance isn't necessary is to completely contradict what Jesus says about the matter. Besides that iron clad case for repentance, could you even picture anyone who wasn't repentant for the things they've done even coming to Jesus in the first place? I honestly can't picture in my head how that could ever work in the first place. I testify by what He's graced me with, and opened my eye's to, the truth that salvation couldn't happen without repentance logically or rationally. I want to be clear that I do NOT believe this happens the same way in all of us as far as "exact words or thoughts", I mean that in the way that I came to repentance, at a time when I thought I knew what being a Christian was. I repeated the prayer, I went and got baptized, I was declared to be saved by a pastor, I even attended church and all that. I was not saved.

God brought me to my knees while I'd already thought I'd "done that" and found that it didn't help when things got real tough. After trying to shoulder the world myself, I wanted to kill myself for 2 solid years everyday. I lost the use of my right arm in a motorcycle accident and couldn't handle it. 1 thing kept me from killing myself. I had 2 sons that I couldn't leave with "my dad killed himself". I knew that no one that tried to step up in my place could ever love my boys like their father. Sounds noble now, but to me then I was just stuck in life. It sucked. After 2 years of this nonstop it all came to a head. If I had ever believed in God before, when I hit my knees I did not. I didn't cry out Jesus, or God I need you. When I hit my knees I said, "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win, I lose and I quit". I picked myself up off the floor and went to bed. The next day I woke up brand new. I'd love to share more, but wasn't trying to make a super long post, or make it about "me", my point was made with this one part. I just wanted to make it clear that I believe YES repentance is a necessity, however how that repentance happens can look many ways and is between that person and God.
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
447
83
#7
Didn't Jesus forgive those who were crucifying Him?
And didn't Steven do similarly to those who stoned him to death?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,813
29,191
113
#8
How can anyone offer forgiveness to someone who has not repented?
The offer of forgiveness is open to all. Will all repent and accept it? Not likely. But it is still there.

Forgiving does not mean one has condoned the wrong that was done.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
#9
You absolutely have to repent to be saved, as clearly discussed so far, Jesus says so. To say repentance isn't necessary is to completely contradict what Jesus says about the matter. Besides that iron clad case for repentance, could you even picture anyone who wasn't repentant for the things they've done even coming to Jesus in the first place? I honestly can't picture in my head how that could ever work in the first place. I testify by what He's graced me with, and opened my eye's to, the truth that salvation couldn't happen without repentance logically or rationally. I want to be clear that I do NOT believe this happens the same way in all of us as far as "exact words or thoughts", I mean that in the way that I came to repentance, at a time when I thought I knew what being a Christian was. I repeated the prayer, I went and got baptized, I was declared to be saved by a pastor, I even attended church and all that. I was not saved.

God brought me to my knees while I'd already thought I'd "done that" and found that it didn't help when things got real tough. After trying to shoulder the world myself, I wanted to kill myself for 2 solid years everyday. I lost the use of my right arm in a motorcycle accident and couldn't handle it. 1 thing kept me from killing myself. I had 2 sons that I couldn't leave with "my dad killed himself". I knew that no one that tried to step up in my place could ever love my boys like their father. Sounds noble now, but to me then I was just stuck in life. It sucked. After 2 years of this nonstop it all came to a head. If I had ever believed in God before, when I hit my knees I did not. I didn't cry out Jesus, or God I need you. When I hit my knees I said, "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win, I lose and I quit". I picked myself up off the floor and went to bed. The next day I woke up brand new. I'd love to share more, but wasn't trying to make a super long post, or make it about "me", my point was made with this one part. I just wanted to make it clear that I believe YES repentance is a necessity, however how that repentance happens can look many ways and is between that person and God.
"1 thing kept me from killing myself. I had 2 sons that I couldn't leave with "my dad killed himself" That I understand. Many Christian don't understand it takes a person of an event in your life to change or keep you going. I got so fed up with Christians saying, "All you need is Jesus" to someone in pain.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#10
We are commanded to forgive others. Obedience to the command actually affects us. If we don't forgive God will not forgive us.

Forgiving others is a choice. Those who forgive, regardless of an offender's willingness to repent, keep themselves from the grip of the enemy. Maintaining one's primary focus on God rather than the actions of those influenced by the enemy has the ability to keep people from being trapped in a prison of their own making; steeped in hatred, and ongoing grief.

God is well aware of the effects of unforgiveness on those He created. His command to forgive is for our protection:

Matt 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Mark 11:25-26
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
 

MsMediator

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2022
1,078
720
113
#11
Didn't Jesus forgive those who were crucifying Him?
And didn't Steven do similarly to those who stoned him to death?
Here, the wrongdoers were ignorant and didn't know right from wrong. They were also unbelievers.
 

MsMediator

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2022
1,078
720
113
#12
Luke 17:3-4

"Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him."
What I get from this is that we must be quick to forgive unbelievers, but if a believer trespass against us there is a process for repentence and forgiveness and hopefully reconciliation.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
13,728
113
#13
I have seen stories on the news, where a family forgives a murderer, even though the murderer does not repent of what they did. They admit to what they did, but are not sorry. How can anyone offer forgiveness to someone who has not repented? Is this an example of casting your pearls before swine?
It appears that you equate “forgiving” with “offering forgiveness”. They aren’t the same thing. ;)
 

MsMediator

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2022
1,078
720
113
#14
Regardless of whether we are allowed the opportunity to forgive which is initiated by confession and repentance, we are still called to love.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
#15
It appears that you equate “forgiving” with “offering forgiveness”. They aren’t the same thing. ;)
There was no offer of forgiveness, they started off saying, "we forgive you? If there was an offer, they would have said.....we can forgive you if you repent. They did not do this, so there was no offer.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
#16
We are commanded to forgive others. Obedience to the command actually affects us. If we don't forgive God will not forgive us.

Forgiving others is a choice. Those who forgive, regardless of an offender's willingness to repent, keep themselves from the grip of the enemy. Maintaining one's primary focus on God rather than the actions of those influenced by the enemy has the ability to keep people from being trapped in a prison of their own making; steeped in hatred, and ongoing grief.

God is well aware of the effects of unforgiveness on those He created. His command to forgive is for our protection:

Matt 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Mark 11:25-26
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
You often hear Christians talk about “forgiving the unrepentant person.” They say, “You must do it for your own sake, so your life is not controlled by another person.”
But in asking you to forgive the unrepentant person, they’re asking you to do something that God Himself never does, and in the process, they’re changing the nature of what repentance is. God’s forgiveness always effects a restored relationship.
Forgiveness involves the reconciling of two people—one who repents and the other who forgives. , that it is a great mistake to tell people that they must forgive where there is no repentance.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
13,728
113
#18
There was no offer of forgiveness, they started off saying, "we forgive you? If there was an offer, they would have said.....we can forgive you if you repent. They did not do this, so there was no offer.
You seem to believe that forgiveness is a transaction between people, which it is not. It’s the offended party surrendering judgment and retribution to God. Anyone who has had to forgive a dead person understands that.

Forgiveness is freeing for the offended party. It has no effect on the offender. Whether the offender ever repents is irrelevant.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,197
1,601
113
Midwest
#19
op: forgiveness?

Forgiving the 'murderer {repentant or not} who did them wrong' would be more
"for their own 'closure' of the matter, and 'moving on' with life," eh?

Confusion of two Different Bible contexts, solved 'Rightly Divided':

Covenants / Prophecy / Law for Israel:

Forgive others First, Then God Will Forgive!
(Matthew 6:14-15, 18:35; Mark 11:25-26; Luke 6:37)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

Mystery/GRACE! For [ Already Forgiven members of ] The Body Of Christ:

"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another,
Even as God for Christ's Sake Hath Forgiven you." (
Ephesians 4:32)

Amen.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
#20
You seem to believe that forgiveness is a transaction between people, which it is not. It’s the offended party surrendering judgment and retribution to God. Anyone who has had to forgive a dead person understands that.

Forgiveness is freeing for the offended party. It has no effect on the offender. Whether the offender ever repents is irrelevant.
Well this frees up anyone from repenting. If I don't have to repent to receive forgiveness.