Talking with Jesus

Honestly the reason I created the post in the first place was that I was feeling like the only one experiencing what I am experiencing, and I know this is wrong, so I hoped to go online and search for others.

Don't think we want to call G-d unfaithful in any way, shape or form.
Much more the case we don't fully understand He and His ways.
blessings

Good, cause I ask for Divine encounters in which I may be His hands and feet to extend His Gospel and growth, and this looks like it.
Sometimes He uses this format and us as such.
He also brought to my remembrance the Marty Sunday teaching at jglm, they put them on youtube for a while.
blessings

Hi Bee. If you are disabled for too long and you can't work you slowly become lazy, and that is just one example of how your physical condition on the outside can affect your spiritual condition on the inside. Suppose for some reason you can't get married, but you still have natural sexual desires. When you hold those in for your whole life it can have an effect on you. Suppose people judge you for either of those two reasons: lack of a career or lack of a marriage. It affects your relationships with people in general. And if you are seen as unsuccessful by people in general, how are you able to be a living testimony for Jesus? So again, one's physical conditions can impact his or her spiritual value. Suppose you can't learn new things or develop your talents. If you are a natural achiever, this can be a major setback to your sense of purpose. If every outlet of your gifting is blocked for various but simultaneous reasons, you become unhealthy, and this impacts your relationship with God. Then your relationship with God will affect your eternal future. It can also affect your spirit in the present, opening up your mind to darkness. Even if you are a perfect person in sinless harmony with Jesus, outside forces can break you down until you feel completely separated from Jesus and become practically vulnerable to other people and dark spirits. So, it would be nice if the Lord would sustain us while we live in flesh. This life matters, and I am very concerned about how its problems affect us spiritually.

Hi Shittim. So you noticed that. I began to cross some forbidden lines a number of years ago, and my feelings toward the Lord have become a little bit impure. I remember hearing the song "You're a good good Father" on the radio while the people at this church were treating me like garbage. I very distinctly thought, the way God is working (or not working) through this large group of Christians is very clearly not good, and I can't objectively call Him a good Father right now, because He is giving me no assurance of any sort to juxtapose the horrible way these church people are acting. Goodness is supposed to be a fruit of the Spirit, but for years I couldn't find goodness in churches where I looked for it. And to be honest I couldn't find it in scripture or in prayer, either. I created this topic to try to seek the Lord's face with other believers, but since I posted it I have stopped feeling His presence, and last night in particular I had a horrible lack of peace in my mind while I slept.

At this point the reason I am so open about my problems with Jesus is because when I really care about someone I love I am very honest with them. Jesus claims He is good, but realistically He is often inaccessible. Last night I prayed to Him and I felt no better. Many times in life I have been overcome by situations and no amount of desperate calling out to Jesus delivered me. So I want to know why. What level of suffering does He want me to experience to teach me whatever it is He wants to teach me? What is He trying to teach me? Lately I've started to wonder if He just feels so much misery Himself that He wants company. I mean, it is complicated, but if He is intentionally making things terrible for me, then why? I am doing my best to stave off sin. It is harder without His peace, though.

Shalom, Shittim.

We do what now?

I don't know about other churches, but in my church I have heard Acts chapter 2 preached a lot more than all the books Paul ever wrote.

I mean, the pastor preaches from Romans and Corinthians occasionally, but Acts chapter 2 gets a lot more coverage. And it's the same in a lot of other churches I have been to.

Hi, this video is the very basic first-time gospel message. There is a big difference between a mature relationship with Jesus and hearing the gospel presented to you for the first time. I have heard it this first time way thousands of times, and for years and years I was patient and humble enough to just accept the good intentions of the people preaching the basic gospel to me, as well as to listen and reflect upon the truth they share. But after getting a degree in mechanical engineering, listening to people try to teach you how to play with wooden alphabet blocks over and over starts to get futile. When I created this topic I was intending to facilitate a discussion amongst mature followers of Jesus who would discuss their experiences communicating with Him on an equal basis.

But perhaps if there are some deeper truths from the simple gospel message that you would like to specifically elucidate for us, you can share what you personally find challenging. I would love to hear it.

Are you saying that a lot of churches predominantly only teach from one single chapter of the Bible?

Do you go to Pentacostal churches? My family went from church to church to church as I grew up. My mom stopped counting at 30 something. I have heard more often from the pulpit, "Paul says" than I have heard "Jesus says." Justification by grace/faith is entirely a Pauline doctrine.

The reason I ask about Pentacostal churches is I have been to a few of them, and I can verify that they do teach out of Acts 2 more. That is sort of the basis for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, which is very important to Pentacostals. My dad was saved into a Pentacostal church, and my best friend is Pentacostal, and I have strong Pentacostal roots.

But outside of Acts 2, most of the theology I hear taught from the pulpit comes from Paul, though. Moreso than from Jesus.

For one thing, Jesus never explained why He was getting crucified and what that accomplished spiritually. He said a lot of times that He was going to get crucified, and rise again, and that He needed to, but it was basically Paul who came up with all the theology about it. The only reason Jesus gave was that He needed to suffer. But Jesus didn't say that His suffering would atone for our sins. Paul claimed, "on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus." — Romans 2:16. Paul's gospel. If you compare what Jesus taught and what Paul taught, you will find major differences. For that matter you will even find differences in some of the things Paul said with other things he said. I mean, compare Romans 2:13 with Romans 3:20.

Hi, I just spent a few minutes listening to Marty on YouTube through JGLM, his June 25 and July 2 sermons. I listened to about 5 minutes of each one. I apologize for not listening to more. If you think they are really important, I can try. Each of the three of them is a full 2 hours long. From what I listened to, he talks about not listening to your emotions and not being offended. Personally I think listening to one's feelings is a measure of sanity. Anyway, thank you for the suggestion. Take care.

You are starting to get waaaaaay out in left field here. I have read the Bible multiple times and never seen anywhere Paul contradicts either Jesus or himself.

And no, we don't teach only Acts. Our pastor uses what Jesus says and Acts a lot more than he mentions Paul though.

My wife had an issue with her siblings, financial care for her father's house, getting the house in one of the kid's name before he died (since some of them didn't have ID and inheritance issues would have been difficult otherwise in her country.) She had a disagreement with her sister about it, prayed for God to speak through the Bible to her and opened to 'forget your father's' house. Sometimes she feels like the Lord speaks to her through a specific Biblical passage, that the Holy Spirit is speaking those words to her situation. I'm more of a 'principals of scripture' kind of guy myself. But I did pray for an answer to something, I believe I heard a verse reference, and there was an answer to my question in the verse when I looked it up.

If someone hears God speak to them daily, good for them. I can't say I get specific direction or hear a 'word' from God every single day, except when I read scripture I try to hear what it says. Don't despise that, because that is probably the primary way God directs many of us.

I had a friend who had to make a big decision of moving thousands of miles away, uprooting his family in the process. There was a job offer there, but none where he was. He would probably have preferred to stay where he ways. He said he prayed about it. He read the Bible to see if there was any principle in the Bible about it. (The Bible did not say, "Thou shalt move to that city.") He would try to perceive if the Lord was speaking to him, or giving hi a dream, then make a decision and submit the issue to God in prayer. It sounded like a good 'method.'

If you pray, praise, and sing praises to God, you can spend time listening. If you don't hear anything, be happy to praise God. I've done extended times of prayer and then setting aside quite a bit of time to listen. That helped develop patience, but it didn't mean I would 'hear something. When I was doing that a lot, I suspect I may have been praying into some of Clinton's marital problems back in the day, because when I prayed for people later, I'd pray about specific problems they had I couldn't naturally know about. I began to perceive how these prayers seemed to be coming up out of my spirit and I learned to listen better by doing so. But that doesn't mean I prayed, listened and always had a two-way dialogue with God. If someone does every time, that is good. I also prayed about a problem and had a picture drop in my mind, which I think is a kind of vision, that answered my prayer right away. And I experienced that where I was praying for someone about problems I didn't know about, but praying in great detail, that I got a kind of picture that went along with the prayer.

I remember when I was overseas, praying about a place to live since the place I was living wouldn't be available in a few weeks, trying to hear God. I have a conversation with someone else in the house, a minor disagreement over a factual matter, not a quarrel, just disagreeing. I believe I perceived God directed me to reconcile with that other person who was actually a little upset about our previous conversation. But I wanted to hear about what I wanted to hear about.

Something to watch out for is getting into a habit of claiming to hear from God when it isn't true, and claiming God said it, like someone who says God said to buy a Honda, then you meet that person the next week and he bought a Toyota. He says there was a discount, so God said not to buy the Honda, but buy the Toyota. That's a silly hypothetical example, but there are people who put God's name on their own thoughts. That might be false prophecy, a death penalty sin in the Old Testament. Also, Paul implies bearing false witness of God is a bad thing in I Corinthians 15. Job had to intercede for a friend who had spoken falsely about the Almighty. So we need to be careful not to make false statements about what God says, thinks, feels, or cant' do.

Brian, just suppose that instead of all the scenarios you present here, you simply believed the words of Psalm 27? I won’t post it here since you don’t seem to want the Bible quoted at you. I can understand that. I’m sure you’re quite familiar with that psalm already anyway. Perhaps you remember that David said he would have lost heart, had he not believed he would see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. Where do you suppose this “land of the living” is? Is it someplace attainable to everyone but you? I don’t think so. David didn’t lose heart; and you don’t have to either.

Nothing about your physical condition can impact your spiritual value in God’s eyes. It doesn’t matter how others see you, especially if they judge your success by your physical appearance. That would be their sin; not yours. Many of us are “natural achievers.” We want to bring glory to God, and yes, He has provided each of us with gifts to do so. Since we know that “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable“ (Romans 11:29), there must be a way to carry on even when physically impaired, even when faced with crises in our daily lives, even in horribly, seemingly impossible circumstances. If your circumstances open your mind to spiritual darkness, shine the light of the gospel and God’s inevitable victory upon it. Tell the darkness to flee from your mind, and it will. You express yourself very well; not everyone has that gift. Use your voice for His glory. You don’t have to see the results. God will handle that end and make sure the right words hit the right mark.

Signs and wonders predate the 'signs and wonders' movement. I find the attitude of some people to seek signs and wonders for the sake of signs and wonders to be troubling.

In Acts 4, the apostles, after being arrested and threatened by Jewish authorities, Peter and John met with others and prayed for God to 'consider their threats' and to stretch forth His hand to deal and to do signs and wonders for the same of His Servant Jesus.

A wicked and adulterous generation eat bread, drink water, go to the bathroom, go to sleep at night. But that doesn't make someone who eats bread, drinks water, goes to the bathroom, and goes to sleep at night wicked and adulterous. If a wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign, that didn't make the apostles wicked or adulterous for praying for signs for a legitimate reason.

I knew a brother who loved to read all kinds of stuff including Christian books. I repeated a line from a sermon about the idea that we should 'seek his face, not His hand.' He said that to the lover, every part of the lover is beautiful, including the hand.

If we are honest, we need to seek the Lord's hand... as a metaphor for provision. Jesus said to pray, 'Give us this day, our daily bread.' We are dependent on God for every breath be breathe, the food we eat. We should feel free to ask for 'help in time of need' and also to pray for material provision, and also signs and wonders.

I used to read posts (elsewhere) from a man who used to be a chair at secular university, teaching Greek and Latin. He pointed out that the word translated 'worship' in both Old and New Testaments most often referred to prostration. There is a long translation history of using 'worship.' If you read about the psalmist saying he will 'worship towards your temple' that makes sense. Samaritans used to prostrate toward their temple on Mt. Gerizim and the Jews prostrated toward the temple in Jerusalem. The woman at the well wanted to debate where men should prostrate. And John bowed down toward an angel. The translation that he 'worshipped' the angel sounds like he was treating the angel as God. You can see in some contexts translations will say 'bow down' and the same word is translated 'worship' in other verses.

And then we use 'worship' in some churches to mean either singing praises to God (or the slow kinds of songs) or our whole life lived in honor to God. But a lot of the verses used to talk about 'worship' are about prostration.

The word translated 'worship' here is a word related to the concept of 'service.' Some translations say that. I don't think the verse is specifically about how we praise God in song, although that is one component of the overall life of service to God.

That being said, is this a terrible song? I've probably thought critically about this song. I don't mind hearing a song about how we long for God's glory, as long as we can sing it honestly and sincerely. That's a good thing. Let's look at the lyrics.

"Holy Spirit you are welcome here. Come flood this place and fill the atmosphere. Your glory God is what our hearts long for, to be overwhelmed by your presence, Lord....Let us be filled with the glory of your goodness, etc."

The thing I notice is a prayer addressed to the Holy Spirit. I don't find any examples of that in scripture. I pray to the Father. Jesus told the disciples that they would pray to the Father in His name. But I am not saying it is a _sin_ to pray to the Spirit. I am not totally against the song for that reason, but if I had the skill or gift of making songs, I might do something else.

I am also not too excited about songs about God filling the atmosphere. Being raised Pentecostal and being around Charismatics, I hear an emphasis on that, feeling God's presence, etc. in church meetings. Experientially, I might be able to appreciate that. I don't see it emphasized in scripture as something to sing in church. The Spirit is in the saint. But I also see on one occasion that the power of God was present to heal the sick, so that is a good thing, so I am not against this song for that reason.

There are passages in the Old Testament about the cloud filling the tabernacle, then much later the temple. Maybe this song is kind of mixing up the concept of 'kavod' with glorifying God, which are two concepts with the same word in English.

It isn't my favorite song for lyrics, but I am not opposed to it either. I was singing 'You Rose, You Reign', or 'Every Victory is Yours' or whatever it is called recently. I prefer that one for the lyrics, and the sound, too.

I don't see where Christians are restricted to only sing specifically songs of praise to God, though I do prefer that to many other types of songs. The Psalms contain some other content. If 'Awake O sleeper' in the New Testament was a church song... it isn't addressed to God as praise.




So to answer your question in a word, no, I am not seeking signs and miracles. I am seeking direct words from the Lord, first to know what He wants, and then to gauge from His presence how I can respond, and as necessary, to ask Him for the assistance I will need to do what He asks me to do.

Most of us have the blessing to pursue good things in life, for our enjoyment, but at this point I have a really limited capacity to do this. So I want Jesus to hopefully accept my devotion to Him instead.[/QUOTE]

Considering the direction this thread has taken, this looks like a good spot for this song:






I would take no for an answer
Just to know I heard You speak
And I'm wondering why I've never
Seen the signs they claim they see
A lot of special revelations
Meant for everybody but me
Maybe I don't truly know You
Or maybe I just simply believe

Cause I can sniff, I can see
And I can count up pretty high
But these facutlies aren't getting me
Any closer to the sky
But my heart of faith keeps pounding
So I know I'm doing fine
But sometimes finding You
Is just like trying to
Smell the color nine

Alright. I understand how it looks like I am in left field. I know that Christianity teaches that Paul was an apostle called by Jesus and that we can benefit from his teachings. Maybe you can answer a few questions I have about Paul, genuinely and honestly, as I try to accept everything he said in the Bible.

(1) Why does Romans 2:13 say that doers of the law are justified, but Romans 3:20 says that no flesh is justified by the law?
(2) Wasn't Jesus Christ's sinlessness due to the fact that He completely obeyed God's Law, both the written law and the spiritual law?
(3) Why does Paul say that no flesh can be justified by the law? Why does Paul condemn the flesh elsewhere when JESUS CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH?
(4) Why does Paul, in all of his writings, including the book of Hebrews, NEVER ONCE state that Jesus was entirely without sin?
(5) Why does Paul state that Jesus's afflictions are lacking (in Colossians 1:24)?
(6) Why does Paul constantly command us to remember him in his sufferings, but not to remember Jesus's sufferings?
(7) Why did someone I met at a Bible study claim that Paul said to come to him before coming to Jesus? IN SUPPORT OF PAUL!!! Maybe this conclusion comes from the verse "Imitate me as I imitate Christ."
(8) Why did Paul claim that God will judge us by "my" (Paul's) gospel?
(9) Why does Paul proclaim curses upon people who hate Jesus? "Anathema maranatha!" Anathema means evil chaos, and maranatha means come, so it is like he is saying, come evil chaos. Why would ANY Christian call upon evil?
(10) Can you explain why he says, "Though we have known Jesus in the flesh, we no longer know Him this way," when John warns us about spirits that deny Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

I'm not trying to be a troll, or clever, or subversive, or whatever. I genuinely pick up the New Testament from time to time and read Paul's letters with an open mind and a sincere heart, and I make large efforts to try to accept what he says, but every time I can only get so far before I develop huge problems with what I'm reading. This is not a conspiracy I heard from someone else. This is what I see when I read it for myself. No one taught me to distrust Paul. I developed these thoughts completely on my own. So if you can explain Paul's validity to me, I would really appreciate it.

[/QUOTE]

Hi presidente,

I really like you. You really analyzed my words very well.

What I like about the Pentacostal flavor of faith is the desire for holiness and repentance. I believe that this is the point of being a Christian. I believe that the purpose of life is for God to grow our character as we grow to know Him more and more.

I agree with you that it is good to seek God's hand to a degree. The more we depend on God, the more we tend to respond by living for Him. I have prayed for his natural intervention many times, and sometimes He has acquiesced to my requests.

What you said about worship and glory each having different meanings in the old testament and new testament is interesting, too. I see worship as serving God. Prostrating myself before Him in prayer demonstrates my submission and willingness to receive His instruction. Don't you think we ought to be mindful of living for Him rather than Him living for us?

It seems to me that some Christians are more conscientious about living for God, like seekingthemindofchrist, whereas a lot of people just consider themselves Christians for their own gain.

Hi Bee,

You are making me cry, which is very rare for me. Thank you so much. You really encouraged me a lot, especially how you combined your faith with practical understanding. Psalm 27 is beautiful and very relevant to me. Unfortunately, I have literally been overcome by my enemies, beginning with a Christian family who slandered me a long time ago. The promises and hopes of that Psalm have all been broken in my life. I remember when I would depend on that Psalm, read it, stand on it, and have faith in the Lord's deliverance, but my worst fears have continued to transpire increasingly moreso all the time. It is so beautiful to me to stand on faith, to see strong faith in someone such as yourself, and to share in the fellowship of it. But something is wrong for me, or with me, and all the truth is having less and less ability to save me as time goes on. Tonight the person I live with said I have to move out, after strongly asserting two nights ago that this would not happen as I have no place to go. All this time I have spent chatting with Christians in the past two days made her angry. Also, I stopped feeling the Lord's presence, and have not heard him speak to me, and my sleep at night has become very unsettled. If it were not for my underlying faith in Him, I would stop believing in Him, because all of the promises of scripture and everything God-related is once again failing me very badly.

I was very touched by your words, Bee. Bless you. -Brian

Hola presidente,

I appreciate your stories. I like your balanced and experienced perspective. Just so you know I stopped feeling the Lord's presence a couple days ago and it feels difficult to pray now. I am happy for you, though.

So I was just praying to Jesus, about my present crisis. I started out explaining myself to Him, reminding Him that I try to be slow-to-speak, patient, soft-spoken, think before I speak, and choose intelligent words when speaking with people. I said this to Him because for some reason I tend to get in a lot of conflict with others. After saying that, I paused, wondering if I should assert my own strength of character to Him further, but instead, I said, "Lord, I don't know if You want me to say this, but I am a sinner, in need of Your grace." And He answered me and said, "I'll see what I can do for you."

That's an impressive confirmation bias you've built there. You twisted sooooo many things Paul said, that I'm not even going make a dent if I sort through the list and explain it all.

SHORT VERSION: Nothing Paul said means what you are saying it means. Beyond this, I can't help you. Good luck.