I would like to preface this by saying: I am an extremely skeptical person, and try to be very cautious in voicing my thoughts. I am more critical of my own views than probably any of my own critics could ever be. That said, I do not tend to express my thoughts or conclusions in an open forum format unless I can say (in my own mind), and without hesitation, that it (will and) has survived the scrutiny it deserves. Laced into my subconscious is the Proverb,
The words of a man’s mouth are deep waters;
The fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.
5 To show partiality to the wicked is not good,
Nor to thrust aside the righteous in judgment.
6 A fool’s lips bring strife,
And his mouth calls for blows.
7 A fool’s mouth is his ruin,
And his lips are the snare of his soul.
8 The words of a whisperer are like dainty morsels,
And they go down into the innermost parts of the body.
9 He also who is slack in his work
Is brother to him who destroys.
10 The name of the Lord is a strong tower;
The righteous runs into it and is safe.
11 A rich man’s wealth is his strong city,
And like a high wall in his own imagination.
12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty,
But humility goes before honor.
13 He who gives an answer before he hears,
It is folly and shame to him.
In short: I try to spend more time articulating and developing my points, than yapping like a poodle. That way, when I do “yap” (as we all do), it is rooted and grounded in its proper dwelling, so that when the “verbal assault” and “punches” come, I am not caught off guard like a deer in the headlights, but that they are met by the “strong tower.” And not a “strong tower” based off “imagination,” but rooted in
the Strong Tower. That’d be a bit like punching a brick wall.
That said, I do not hesitate to say, that Jubilees, 2 Ezra, or Enoch is not at all valid, but I don't dismiss it as irrelevant. Total avoidance is not the right approach. It is real, historical data that gives us a glimpse into what scribes during the time believed. You don't have to accept it (I don’t). Or you might accept parts of it, and not the rest. In either case, that doesn’t mean we should dismiss the fact that what’s
missing from each of these accounts, in each their own tradition (Jewish, Christian, or Secular), is one very important aspect: Angels existing prior to Gen. 1:1.
That should at least cause folks to give pause for a moment before they jump the gun on Job 38:4-7.
We just need to be a bit more pragmatic and objective to the approach, and take into serious consideration that our previously held interpretation of Job 38:4-7 just might be due for some fine tuning, given the fact that the language does not
require any such tradition that sometimes gets imposed onto the text. People have read too much into Job 38:4-7, and not enough into the texts that attribute the act of “creation” to her Creator.
It would be one thing if I was basing this objection off a tradition with minimal attestation, but that’s not necessarily the case in our situation. We have information coming from multiple streams/traditions that suggest angels find their place in the order of things sometime along the 7-Day spectrum. Some of those sources may agree or even disagree with one another. But the one thing they do agree on is simple: Angels did not exist prior to Gen. 1:1.
That said, that should cause the reader to dig further into Scripture to see what God’s Word does, and does not say. The OT does
not specify with any degree of precision which day the angels came into existence, but one thing is certain: Job 38:4-7 (in harmony with the other aforementioned data) does not require we push their existence back to a time that antedates Gen. 1:1, either.
And when one takes into account texts such as Isaiah 44-45, Deut. 32:39 and couple that with the NT (where both sets of texts are alluded to over and time again), it becomes quite clear that the only power responsible for “creating” are (in harmony with Targum Neofiti on Gen. 1:1), Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (cf. Jn. 1:1-3). Angels find their place in the natural sequence of things, but the only power present prior to the formation of the heavens
and the earth are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. John doesn’t mention angels anywhere in his prologue. Paul (while alluding to the Genesis mandate) specifically identifies none other than the Father, through the Son, in Spirit, bringing forth creation.
Therefore, I am on very solid ground to suggest Job 38:4-7 is probably best understood (with some flexibility) in this order of sequence:
To expand on this a little further, consider Jubilees 2:2-4 (translation by RH Charles),
For on the first day He created the heavens which are above and the earth and the waters and all the spirits which serve before him -the angels of the presence, and the angels of sanctification, and the angels [of the spirit of fire and the angels] of the spirit of the winds, and the angels of the spirit of the clouds, and of darkness, and of snow and of hail and of hoar frost, and the angels of the voices and of the thunder and of the lightning, and the angels of the spirits of cold and of heat, and of winter and of spring and of autumn and of summer and of all the spirits of his creatures which are in the heavens and on the earth, (He created) the abysses and the darkness, eventide <and night>, and the light, dawn and day, which He hath prepared in the knowledge of his heart.
And thereupon we saw His works, and praised Him, and lauded before Him on account of all His works; for seven great works did He create on the first day.
And on the second day He created the firmament in the midst of the waters, and the waters were divided on that day -half of them went up above and half of them went down below the firmament (that was) in the midst over the face of the whole earth. And this was the only work (God) created on the second day.
This account from Jubilees 2 is quite “packed.” There are probably a couple different ways the reader can understand the specifics of this. One option is to see the author as taking events from the “Day 2” account of Genesis and merging it together with its own version of the “Day 1” account. But I think the better option is that the author of Jubilees is describing the creation of the “third heavens” (along with its hosts) in its “Day 1” account, and then latter goes on to describe a “lower heaven” on Day 2. Either way, packed into their version of the “Day 1” account, the author arranges its (“Day 1”) events in a sequence that follows a pattern which Gen. 1 routinely makes: The “dwelling” is established first (whether that “dwelling” is the
earth [for its inhabitants],
sea [for the sea creatures],
land [for land mammals],
heavens, etc.), and then the mention of its corresponding inhabitants/hosts are made.
This same theme is illustrated in 2 Enoch’s account, though it does lay out the details in a bit of a different order, but the “prepared dwelling” → “host” sequence remains the same.
I mention this, because I think this helps illustrate a point as we detour through the OT. While Ps. 104 does not exclusively identify which “day” the angels were brought into existence, there is, (tucked away into the backdrop) a presupposition that relies on a similar sequence of events: “prepared dwelling” → “hosts”
In Ps. 104:2-3, it describes God as “stretching out the heavens,” and “laying the beams of His upper chamber.” But then notice, that as a part of that process of “stretching out the heavens” (as laid out in the second half of v. 2) is “who makes cloud His chariot,” “who rides on the wings of the wind,” “who makes His messengers the winds,” and “attendants a flame of fire” (cf. Heb. 1:7). This sort of language comports perfectly with Jubilees 2. Whereas in the Jubilees account, angels are apart of that “third heavens” creation experience, so too is that what is being drawn upon in Ps. 104. Both accounts list the sequence of that “third heavens” creation experience with the “dwelling” coming first, and then thereafter, the angelic hosts.
So while I do not see Jubilees as “inspired,” I do see it as an ancient Jewish attempt at understanding Gen. 1 in light of Ps. 104. Whereas in Ps. 104, the angels are referred to as “messengers of the winds,” and “attendants of fire,” the Jubilees account likewise refers to the angels as “messengers of fire,” and “messengers of the wind.” The point being is that Ps. 104 provides details that were not otherwise provided in Gen. 1. These angels are brought into existence prior to the formation of the “earth” (Job 38:4-7), but after their dwelling had been established first (Ps. 104:2-3). Christ is said to have existed “before all things” (Col. 1:16-17), and is instrumental in their creation (Col. 1:16, Jn. 1:1-3, Heb. 1:7-10). Angels did not assist God in creation, nor were they there “passively” when “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” They are only on the scene at sometime on Day 1 or Day 2, prior to the formation of earth.
If we want to discuss angels, we can start by putting them back into their proper pecking order.
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