Paul saw the ten commandments as part of the "ministry of death."
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I think He expounds on the Law and teaches the true Spirit of it.
There was also mercy in the OT, very similar to NT
Ezekiel 18:20-21, "“The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself. “But the wrong,a if he turns from all his sins which he has done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die.
Acts 3:19-20, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you,”
Hebrews 10:26-31, “For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Elohim underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of favour? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה.” And again, “יהוה shall judge His people.” It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.”
and there is a vital part to Yahshua's preaching many overlook
John 5:14, “Afterward יהושע found him in the Set-apart Place, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, so that no worse matter befalls you.”
John 8:11, “And she said, “No one, Master.” And יהושע said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."
There was also mercy in the OT, very similar to NT
Ezekiel 18:20-21, "“The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself. “But the wrong,a if he turns from all his sins which he has done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die.
Acts 3:19-20, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you,”
Hebrews 10:26-31, “For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Elohim underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of favour? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה.” And again, “יהוה shall judge His people.” It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.”
and there is a vital part to Yahshua's preaching many overlook
John 5:14, “Afterward יהושע found him in the Set-apart Place, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, so that no worse matter befalls you.”
John 8:11, “And she said, “No one, Master.” And יהושע said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."
Double post sorry , if there is anything I missed fom your post there was a lot there and I will reply if you have issue with anything
Ill add this, it's a good one imo
1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Ill add this, it's a good one imo
1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Literally. You were in error.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Thats not true when it comes to spiritual death
the penalty (wage) of sin is death.
You can spin it however you want. Adam and eve committed one sin and they died as promised.
I suggest you stop trying to excuse your own sin, and repent
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Thats not true when it comes to spiritual death
the penalty (wage) of sin is death.
You can spin it however you want. Adam and eve committed one sin and they died as promised.
I suggest you stop trying to excuse your own sin, and repent
So I dufferentiated between physical and spiritual, you seem to be conflating them only when claiming im wrong, while otherwise making the distinction...
You must disagree with on of the 12 disciples of Yahshua whose name is written on the foundation of the kingdom...
1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."
Admah and Hawwah (Eve) were literally warned that sin would literally cause death
Genesis 2:16-17, “And יהוה Elohim commanded the man, saying, “Eat of every tree of the garden, but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it you shall certainly die.”
You brought them up with a claim on me, I never said otherwise...
Show me where I have excused my own sin and I will repent of it.
If you can not then you are making things up, that is called a lie. Possibly you think I am doing so, because you disagree with my views but without evidence it is false witness.
Leviticus 19:16 , “You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people.”
You must disagree with on of the 12 disciples of Yahshua whose name is written on the foundation of the kingdom...
1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."
Admah and Hawwah (Eve) were literally warned that sin would literally cause death
Genesis 2:16-17, “And יהוה Elohim commanded the man, saying, “Eat of every tree of the garden, but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it you shall certainly die.”
You brought them up with a claim on me, I never said otherwise...
Show me where I have excused my own sin and I will repent of it.
If you can not then you are making things up, that is called a lie. Possibly you think I am doing so, because you disagree with my views but without evidence it is false witness.
Leviticus 19:16 , “You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people.”
Paul
1 Corinthians 4:15-16, “You may have 10,000 mentors who work for the Messiah, but not many fathers (G3962 patér). For in the Messiah Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. So I urge you to imitate me.”
Jesus
Matthew 23:8-9, “But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher (#G1320 didaskalos), and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father G3962 patér), who is in heaven.”
2 Timothy 1:13-15, "Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me (Paul), in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you. You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.”
John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”
Philippians 3:17-18, “Join together in imitating me (Paul), brothers, and pay close attention to those who live by the example we have given you. For I have often told you, and now tell you even with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.”
1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”
2 Peter 3:15-17, “15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. “
1 Corinthians 4:15-16, “You may have 10,000 mentors who work for the Messiah, but not many fathers (G3962 patér). For in the Messiah Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. So I urge you to imitate me.”
Jesus
Matthew 23:8-9, “But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher (#G1320 didaskalos), and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father G3962 patér), who is in heaven.”
2 Timothy 1:13-15, "Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me (Paul), in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you. You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.”
John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”
Philippians 3:17-18, “Join together in imitating me (Paul), brothers, and pay close attention to those who live by the example we have given you. For I have often told you, and now tell you even with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.”
1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”
2 Peter 3:15-17, “15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. “
This scripture you quote here does NOT SHOW That the Gentiles could take part in the Passover -and it certainly doesn't say the Gentiles were under God's laws -----
So again what your doing is taking the true Scripture and twisting it to suit your own beliefs and Agenda ----and ignoring the truth of the Scripture ----your cherry picking scripture and taking it out of CONTEXT so you can say your RIGHT ---
This is really what thje scripture says and there is noting in this scripture that says the all Gentiles were included in partaking of the Passover --or that they were under God's laws ------
Your ignoring this Scripture ----and below this scripture --------is what-Exodus 12 starting at verse 42 which you conveniently left out ------so you can try and prove your point --------say -----
Romans 2 ----Read and weep ----verse 14-----
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without [regard to] the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged and condemned by the Law.
13 For it is not those who merely hear the Law [as it is read aloud] who are just or righteous before God, but it is those who [actually] obey the Law who will be [b]justified [pronounced free of the guilt of sin and declared acceptable to Him].
14 When Gentiles, who do not have the Law [since it was given only to Jews], do [c]instinctively the things the Law requires [guided only by their conscience], they are a law to themselves, who do not have the Law
I say ----_____What is it you don't get ----clean your glasses off and read the Scripture
AND NOTICE HERE ___IT IS SAID TWICE in Verse 14 Gentiles do not have the Law ----Gentiles who do not have the Law
15 They show that the [d]essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts; and their conscience [their sense of right and wrong, their moral choices] bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or perhaps defending them
16 on that day when, [e]as my gospel proclaims, God will judge the secrets [all the hidden thoughts and concealed sins] of men through Christ Jesus.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Here is your Exodus 12 -----verses you felt out ---to cherry pick and try and prove your twisted point ----
Ordinance of the Passover
42 It is a night of watching to be observed for the Lord for having brought them out of the land of Egypt; this [same] night is for the Lord, to be observed and celebrated by all the Israelites throughout their generations.
43 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: no [h]foreigner is to eat it;
44 but every man’s slave who is bought with money, after you have circumcised him, then he may eat it.
I say ------So here you see that this talks about bought and paid for slaves --that they own --and there are stipulations that must be in place before they can partake in the Passover meal ---
verse 48 ------
all his males must be circumcised, and then he may participate and celebrate it like one that is born in the land.
NOTE ________But no uncircumcised person may eat it.
NOTE ______This is NOT saying that all the foreigners are able to eat from the Passover ---Not does it say the Gentiles are under God laws -----
45 No stranger (temporary resident, foreigner) or hired servant shall eat it.
46 It is to be eaten inside one house; you shall not take any of the meat outside the house, nor shall you break any of its bones.
47 The entire congregation of Israel shall keep and celebrate it.
48 If a stranger living temporarily among you wishes to celebrate the Passover to the Lord, all his males must be circumcised, and then he may participate and celebrate it like one that is born in the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat it.
49 The same law shall apply to the native-born and to the stranger who lives temporarily among you.”
50 Then all the Israelites did so; they did just as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron.
51 And on that very same day the Lord brought the Israelites out of the land of Egypt by their hosts (tribal armies
I say
So your one that thinks that because you cherry pick your scripture your proving your point ------I say your an easy target for Satan who has you duped --and deceived -----so carry on with your cherry picking and be duped by the Master Deceiver --AS he has you ----
So again what your doing is taking the true Scripture and twisting it to suit your own beliefs and Agenda ----and ignoring the truth of the Scripture ----your cherry picking scripture and taking it out of CONTEXT so you can say your RIGHT ---
This is really what thje scripture says and there is noting in this scripture that says the all Gentiles were included in partaking of the Passover --or that they were under God's laws ------
Your ignoring this Scripture ----and below this scripture --------is what-Exodus 12 starting at verse 42 which you conveniently left out ------so you can try and prove your point --------say -----
Romans 2 ----Read and weep ----verse 14-----
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without [regard to] the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged and condemned by the Law.
13 For it is not those who merely hear the Law [as it is read aloud] who are just or righteous before God, but it is those who [actually] obey the Law who will be [b]justified [pronounced free of the guilt of sin and declared acceptable to Him].
14 When Gentiles, who do not have the Law [since it was given only to Jews], do [c]instinctively the things the Law requires [guided only by their conscience], they are a law to themselves, who do not have the Law
I say ----_____What is it you don't get ----clean your glasses off and read the Scripture
AND NOTICE HERE ___IT IS SAID TWICE in Verse 14 Gentiles do not have the Law ----Gentiles who do not have the Law
15 They show that the [d]essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts; and their conscience [their sense of right and wrong, their moral choices] bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or perhaps defending them
16 on that day when, [e]as my gospel proclaims, God will judge the secrets [all the hidden thoughts and concealed sins] of men through Christ Jesus.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Here is your Exodus 12 -----verses you felt out ---to cherry pick and try and prove your twisted point ----
Ordinance of the Passover
42 It is a night of watching to be observed for the Lord for having brought them out of the land of Egypt; this [same] night is for the Lord, to be observed and celebrated by all the Israelites throughout their generations.
43 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: no [h]foreigner is to eat it;
44 but every man’s slave who is bought with money, after you have circumcised him, then he may eat it.
I say ------So here you see that this talks about bought and paid for slaves --that they own --and there are stipulations that must be in place before they can partake in the Passover meal ---
verse 48 ------
all his males must be circumcised, and then he may participate and celebrate it like one that is born in the land.
NOTE ________But no uncircumcised person may eat it.
NOTE ______This is NOT saying that all the foreigners are able to eat from the Passover ---Not does it say the Gentiles are under God laws -----
45 No stranger (temporary resident, foreigner) or hired servant shall eat it.
46 It is to be eaten inside one house; you shall not take any of the meat outside the house, nor shall you break any of its bones.
47 The entire congregation of Israel shall keep and celebrate it.
48 If a stranger living temporarily among you wishes to celebrate the Passover to the Lord, all his males must be circumcised, and then he may participate and celebrate it like one that is born in the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat it.
49 The same law shall apply to the native-born and to the stranger who lives temporarily among you.”
50 Then all the Israelites did so; they did just as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron.
51 And on that very same day the Lord brought the Israelites out of the land of Egypt by their hosts (tribal armies
I say
So your one that thinks that because you cherry pick your scripture your proving your point ------I say your an easy target for Satan who has you duped --and deceived -----so carry on with your cherry picking and be duped by the Master Deceiver --AS he has you ----
As I said before. this is physical death No spiritual death
And they did die. the moment they ate, they died spiritually. And every man or woman born after is born dead in adam "in adam all die"
if you are claiming that not every sin causes spiritual death or separation from God. You are excusing your own sin.
And they did die. the moment they ate, they died spiritually. And every man or woman born after is born dead in adam "in adam all die"
if you are claiming that not every sin causes spiritual death or separation from God. You are excusing your own sin.
You sure it doesn't say that?
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Ohh, wow it actually says exactly that.
Yeah as I said before gentiles who know nothing about YHWH will not know the Law, once they entered into Israel as a nativeborn they would learn it.
Yet a mixed multitude left Egypt with them freely, that were not indentured servants:
Exodus 12:37-40, “And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. 38, And a *mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. 39, And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual. 40, Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.”
The words “*mixed multitude” are words: H6154 - עֶרֶב עֵרֶב - ‛êreb ‛ereb, ay'-reb, eh'-reb, The second form used in 1 Kings 10:15 with the article prefixed); from H6148; the web (or transverse threads of cloth); also a mixture, (or mongrel race):—Arabia, mingled people, mixed (multitude)
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Ohh, wow it actually says exactly that.
Yeah as I said before gentiles who know nothing about YHWH will not know the Law, once they entered into Israel as a nativeborn they would learn it.
Yet a mixed multitude left Egypt with them freely, that were not indentured servants:
Exodus 12:37-40, “And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. 38, And a *mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. 39, And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual. 40, Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.”
The words “*mixed multitude” are words: H6154 - עֶרֶב עֵרֶב - ‛êreb ‛ereb, ay'-reb, eh'-reb, The second form used in 1 Kings 10:15 with the article prefixed); from H6148; the web (or transverse threads of cloth); also a mixture, (or mongrel race):—Arabia, mingled people, mixed (multitude)
Correct the un-circumcised can not eat of it... that why it says:
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Aslo
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what YHWH says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying; YHWH has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what YHWH says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YHWH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Aslo
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what YHWH says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying; YHWH has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what YHWH says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YHWH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
I see you changed it to "if"
So you said i did something and now its if...
Sin seperates mankind from YHWH, persiod. I never said otherwise, you keep moving the goal posts with false claims., if I claimed any of what you accuse you would have quoted it. So from false witness to "if" with no repenting of the false witness. I forgive you, I assume you have unsettled hinderances.
Isayah 59:1-3, “Behold, YHWH's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your own iniquities have separated you from your Father; and your own sins have caused Him to hide His face from you, cso He will not listen. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; sin. Your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness."
may we all be guided to truth and the right path.
So you said i did something and now its if...
Sin seperates mankind from YHWH, persiod. I never said otherwise, you keep moving the goal posts with false claims., if I claimed any of what you accuse you would have quoted it. So from false witness to "if" with no repenting of the false witness. I forgive you, I assume you have unsettled hinderances.
Isayah 59:1-3, “Behold, YHWH's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your own iniquities have separated you from your Father; and your own sins have caused Him to hide His face from you, cso He will not listen. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; sin. Your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness."
may we all be guided to truth and the right path.
Correct the un-circumcised can not eat of it... that why it says:
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Aslo
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what YHWH says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying; YHWH has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what YHWH says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YHWH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
Aslo
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what YHWH says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying; YHWH has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what YHWH says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YHWH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."
Yeah I’m sort of losing the point I’ve been clear I dont think it’s okay to sin ….
thats not what myself or anyone else is saying it seems to be what your arguing against . I agree though we can’t keep sinning …..
im not sure we’re even talking about the same matter I don’t write really well probably hard to understand what I’m saying maybe that’s the problem
this law this word that came from Mount Sinai when Moses went into the cloud for fourty days isn’t for a Christian to take as thier law
“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
but their minds were blinded: ( what blinded their minds ?)
for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:12-15 KJV
That’s really basic and simple but it’s also hard for some to accept because of what they thought priorly but when you start letting that kind of thing that Paul’s explaining into your thinking this stuff then all makes better sense
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
( Remember this isn’t me writing what I think anything means it’s just Paul explaining these things all I’m doing is highlighting points he’s making and agreeing with them)
Wherefore then serveth the law? ( then what’s the law for ?)
It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, ( it’s an angel speaking to Moses and Moses to the people I parting thier dispositions and judgements gos gave then that authority when the people broke the first commandment but you have to read it )
but God is one.”( father son and Holy Ghost in Christ the true mediator )
Galatians 3:10-12, 19-20
The gospel is the father son and Holy Ghost in one person telling man how to be saved
moses commanded this
“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:21 KJV
Jesus commands this opposite principle
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( this is moses judgement if someone offends you they are repaid equally that’s not mercy it’s equal justice mercy requires what Jesus is saying )
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
Moses said one thing Jesus is teaching e opposite principle one is merciful the other imputes sin and results in death when you die the law ends it’s last judgement is the sinner be put to death this is the entire idea of Jesus dying for our sins and delivering us from the judgements and disposition of the law that’s not for the righteous but for sinful people who won’t repent they need a constant reminder not to sin Christian’s need to hear what to do so they will be set free of sins dominion and control over them
sin is a corruption within us in our minds and hearts and when we act in sin it’s just coming out of us
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23
The law doesn’t help that change it only provokes that wockedness on us to act by telling us not to it’s a provocation to the flesh because we’re corrupted inside need can’t be saved under the law of Moses that’s why god gave the gospel to save us from sin and death the law can’t do that it’s why Paul says in his epistles so much like I’m quoting the apostles of Jesus are the ones who are explaining this studs to us all we need to do is read what they themselves are saying and we can actually start understanding the Bible a lot better than trying tojinteroret what they have already interpreted fornus and are explaining like this this is a conclusion from Paul of what he’s saying to the church in this section
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
argue is Paul explaining something to us about the laws purpose I could be way off to do this but what I do is try to let what the nt is saying in chapters sink in and find the conclusions and lessons the New Testament is not vague about the Old Testament law in any way
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
Romans 10:4 KJV
aid we follow what jesus is teaching as we learn from him we’re going to be walking in the spirit of God And all that sin stuff can be left behind where it belongs
thats not what myself or anyone else is saying it seems to be what your arguing against . I agree though we can’t keep sinning …..
im not sure we’re even talking about the same matter I don’t write really well probably hard to understand what I’m saying maybe that’s the problem
this law this word that came from Mount Sinai when Moses went into the cloud for fourty days isn’t for a Christian to take as thier law
“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
but their minds were blinded: ( what blinded their minds ?)
for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:12-15 KJV
That’s really basic and simple but it’s also hard for some to accept because of what they thought priorly but when you start letting that kind of thing that Paul’s explaining into your thinking this stuff then all makes better sense
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
( Remember this isn’t me writing what I think anything means it’s just Paul explaining these things all I’m doing is highlighting points he’s making and agreeing with them)
Wherefore then serveth the law? ( then what’s the law for ?)
It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, ( it’s an angel speaking to Moses and Moses to the people I parting thier dispositions and judgements gos gave then that authority when the people broke the first commandment but you have to read it )
but God is one.”( father son and Holy Ghost in Christ the true mediator )
Galatians 3:10-12, 19-20
The gospel is the father son and Holy Ghost in one person telling man how to be saved
moses commanded this
“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:21 KJV
Jesus commands this opposite principle
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( this is moses judgement if someone offends you they are repaid equally that’s not mercy it’s equal justice mercy requires what Jesus is saying )
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
Moses said one thing Jesus is teaching e opposite principle one is merciful the other imputes sin and results in death when you die the law ends it’s last judgement is the sinner be put to death this is the entire idea of Jesus dying for our sins and delivering us from the judgements and disposition of the law that’s not for the righteous but for sinful people who won’t repent they need a constant reminder not to sin Christian’s need to hear what to do so they will be set free of sins dominion and control over them
sin is a corruption within us in our minds and hearts and when we act in sin it’s just coming out of us
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23
The law doesn’t help that change it only provokes that wockedness on us to act by telling us not to it’s a provocation to the flesh because we’re corrupted inside need can’t be saved under the law of Moses that’s why god gave the gospel to save us from sin and death the law can’t do that it’s why Paul says in his epistles so much like I’m quoting the apostles of Jesus are the ones who are explaining this studs to us all we need to do is read what they themselves are saying and we can actually start understanding the Bible a lot better than trying tojinteroret what they have already interpreted fornus and are explaining like this this is a conclusion from Paul of what he’s saying to the church in this section
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
argue is Paul explaining something to us about the laws purpose I could be way off to do this but what I do is try to let what the nt is saying in chapters sink in and find the conclusions and lessons the New Testament is not vague about the Old Testament law in any way
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
Romans 10:4 KJV
aid we follow what jesus is teaching as we learn from him we’re going to be walking in the spirit of God And all that sin stuff can be left behind where it belongs
I didnt really think you were outright saying that, but rather a disagreement that the Law is bad, I think it is righteous and transgression of the Law is bad.
1 John 3:4, “Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness”
Isayah 42:21, "YHWH is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable."
True mediator, correct, the veil was the Levitical priesthood, there is a new way to entr in, a way they as a nation, while Yahshua has thousands of followers, they as a nation weretrying to hang on the the Levitical priesthoos after the veil was torn.
Matthew 27:50-51, “And יהושע cried out again with a loud voice, and gave up His spirit. And see, the veil of the Dwelling Place was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth was shaken, and the rocks were split.”
Hebrews 9:1-3, “Now the first covenant indeed had regulations of worship and the earthly set-apart place. For a Tent was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, and the table, and the showbread, which is called the Set-apart Place. And after the second veil, the part of the Tent which is called Most Set-apart.”
Hebrews 9:24, “For Messiah has not entered into a Set-apart Place made by hand – figures of the true – but into the heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of Elohim on our behalf,"9:25, "not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters into the Set-apart Place year by year with blood not his own.”
Hebrews 9:11-12, “But Messiah, having become a High Priest of the coming good matters, through the greater and more perfect Tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, entered into the Most Set-apart Place once for all, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood, having obtained everlasting redemption.”
The problem (veil in this matter) is not do not murder, it was a defunct priesthood....
1 John 3:4, “Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness”
Isayah 42:21, "YHWH is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable."
to magnify the Law, and make it honorable
Mat 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is YHWH; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of YHWH. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection of YHWH, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in YHWH's ways, and following Me." to magnify the Law, and make it honorable
True mediator, correct, the veil was the Levitical priesthood, there is a new way to entr in, a way they as a nation, while Yahshua has thousands of followers, they as a nation weretrying to hang on the the Levitical priesthoos after the veil was torn.
Matthew 27:50-51, “And יהושע cried out again with a loud voice, and gave up His spirit. And see, the veil of the Dwelling Place was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth was shaken, and the rocks were split.”
Hebrews 9:1-3, “Now the first covenant indeed had regulations of worship and the earthly set-apart place. For a Tent was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, and the table, and the showbread, which is called the Set-apart Place. And after the second veil, the part of the Tent which is called Most Set-apart.”
Hebrews 9:24, “For Messiah has not entered into a Set-apart Place made by hand – figures of the true – but into the heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of Elohim on our behalf,"9:25, "not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters into the Set-apart Place year by year with blood not his own.”
Hebrews 9:11-12, “But Messiah, having become a High Priest of the coming good matters, through the greater and more perfect Tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, entered into the Most Set-apart Place once for all, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood, having obtained everlasting redemption.”
The problem (veil in this matter) is not do not murder, it was a defunct priesthood....
Isayah 42:21, "YHWH is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable."
Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”
Heaven and earth "passes" in Rev 21, it has not happened yet.
Matthew 23:8-9, “But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher (#G1320 didaskalos), and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father G3962 patér), who is in heaven.”
1 Corinthians 4:15-16, “You may have 10,000 mentors who work for the Messiah, but not many fathers (G3962 patér). For in the Messiah Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. So I urge you to imitate me.”
Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”
Romans 16:25, “Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.”
John 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh does not profit at all. The words that I speak to you are Spirit and are life.”
2 Timothy. 2:8, "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel."
2 John 1:9, “Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.”
Romans 7:25, “Thank God through Jesus the Messiah, our Lord, because with my mind I myself can serve the Law of God, even while with my human nature I serve the law of sin.”
John 8:34-36, " 34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.”
Galatians 2:19, “For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.”
Hebrews 10:16-17, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
The Law is ove huh? Not according to Jesus...
Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”
was originally written in Koine Greek...TELOS the end-goal, purpose, look at its usage in James 5:11 and tell me it means over...
The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;
Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."
1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."
1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."
If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.
Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”
James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose (telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”
1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”
1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”
Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”
Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”
Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."
The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…
Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”
Heaven and earth "passes" in Rev 21, it has not happened yet.
Matthew 23:8-9, “But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher (#G1320 didaskalos), and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father G3962 patér), who is in heaven.”
1 Corinthians 4:15-16, “You may have 10,000 mentors who work for the Messiah, but not many fathers (G3962 patér). For in the Messiah Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. So I urge you to imitate me.”
Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”
Romans 16:25, “Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.”
John 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh does not profit at all. The words that I speak to you are Spirit and are life.”
2 Timothy. 2:8, "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel."
2 John 1:9, “Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.”
Romans 7:25, “Thank God through Jesus the Messiah, our Lord, because with my mind I myself can serve the Law of God, even while with my human nature I serve the law of sin.”
John 8:34-36, " 34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.”
Galatians 2:19, “For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.”
Hebrews 10:16-17, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
The Law is ove huh? Not according to Jesus...
Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”
was originally written in Koine Greek...TELOS the end-goal, purpose, look at its usage in James 5:11 and tell me it means over...
The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;
Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."
1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."
1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."
If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.
Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”
James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose (telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”
1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”
1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”
Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”
Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”
Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."
The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…
Acts 15: “The Jerusalem Council” James was spot on continually.
Acts 15:19-21,29 “19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles (new converts) who are turning to YHWH, 20, but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood. 21, For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath. 29, that you abstain from what is offered to idols, and blood, and what is strangled, and whoring. If you keep yourselves from these, you shall do well. Be strong!”
" to abstain from the defilements of idols"
Yet Paul says:
1 Corinthians 8:7-8, “However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.”
SO is it ok to eat food offered to idols or not?
15:20, "but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood.
1. No idols
2. No whoring
3. No partaking of what has been strangled
4. No food containing blood
These are ALL “Old Testament” Laws an only one of them is from the 10 Commandments. It is also interesting that even though this decree was made for Gentile converts to the faith, today it seems that even these basic commands for beginners are completely ignored.
Ex 22:20, Lev 17:7, Deut 32:17, Deut 32:21, 1Co 10:14, 1Co 10:20-21. Num 25:1-3, Lev 17:7. Gen 9:4, Ez 33:25 (Strangled; One way of eating meat with blood) Pro 21:25. Lev 17:10-14
I have a ton more but I want to see what your take is on the idol issue....
Acts 15:19-21,29 “19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles (new converts) who are turning to YHWH, 20, but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood. 21, For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath. 29, that you abstain from what is offered to idols, and blood, and what is strangled, and whoring. If you keep yourselves from these, you shall do well. Be strong!”
" to abstain from the defilements of idols"
Yet Paul says:
1 Corinthians 8:7-8, “However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.”
SO is it ok to eat food offered to idols or not?
15:20, "but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood.
1. No idols
2. No whoring
3. No partaking of what has been strangled
4. No food containing blood
These are ALL “Old Testament” Laws an only one of them is from the 10 Commandments. It is also interesting that even though this decree was made for Gentile converts to the faith, today it seems that even these basic commands for beginners are completely ignored.
Ex 22:20, Lev 17:7, Deut 32:17, Deut 32:21, 1Co 10:14, 1Co 10:20-21. Num 25:1-3, Lev 17:7. Gen 9:4, Ez 33:25 (Strangled; One way of eating meat with blood) Pro 21:25. Lev 17:10-14
I have a ton more but I want to see what your take is on the idol issue....
Just because I am on the Side that says, the LAW, even though it does not Apply to me, it still connects because it DEFINES my Own SINS.
The SAME SINS the LAW covered, are the SAME SINS we STILL commit today as GENTILES and CHRISTIANS.
The SINS we can COMMIT have not changed. and those SINS we STILL commit are defined by the LAW.
That is what Paul is saying here.
You act like because you have GRACE, these SINS you COMMIT are not connected to the Definitions of the LAW!
How else are the SINS You COMMIT, as a CHRISTIAN, understood?
We KNOW what SINS are because they WERE DEFINED 4800 years ago.
That Definition Standard will NEVER change!
A SIN is going to forever be a SIN and it can forever be DEFINED by the LAW.
And that connects to us, even in GRACE, because if we SIN, that SIN, is a SIN because it reflects the LAW.
The SAME SINS the LAW covered, are the SAME SINS we STILL commit today as GENTILES and CHRISTIANS.
The SINS we can COMMIT have not changed. and those SINS we STILL commit are defined by the LAW.
That is what Paul is saying here.
You act like because you have GRACE, these SINS you COMMIT are not connected to the Definitions of the LAW!
How else are the SINS You COMMIT, as a CHRISTIAN, understood?
We KNOW what SINS are because they WERE DEFINED 4800 years ago.
That Definition Standard will NEVER change!
A SIN is going to forever be a SIN and it can forever be DEFINED by the LAW.
And that connects to us, even in GRACE, because if we SIN, that SIN, is a SIN because it reflects the LAW.
15:19, "“Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to YHWH,"
New International Version
“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
New Living Translation
“And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
English Standard Version
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,
“the Gentiles who are turning to YHWH” This shows us new Gentile converts are the topic. Not Gentiles period, but new Gentile converts.
“turning” is word #1994 - epistrephó: to turn, to return, Original Word: ἐπιστρέφω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: epistrephó, Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-stref'-o), Short Definition: I turn back to, Definition: (a) trans: I turn (back) to (towards), (b) intrans: I turn (back) (to [towards]); I come to myself.
New International Version
“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
New Living Translation
“And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
English Standard Version
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,
“the Gentiles who are turning to YHWH” This shows us new Gentile converts are the topic. Not Gentiles period, but new Gentile converts.
“turning” is word #1994 - epistrephó: to turn, to return, Original Word: ἐπιστρέφω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: epistrephó, Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-stref'-o), Short Definition: I turn back to, Definition: (a) trans: I turn (back) to (towards), (b) intrans: I turn (back) (to [towards]); I come to myself.
Acts 15:24 Parallel Verses
New International Version, We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
New Living Translation, We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them!
English Standard Version, Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,
New American Standard Bible, Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,
King James Bible, Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Holman Christian Standard Bible, Because we have heard that some without our authorization went out from us and troubled you with their words and unsettled your hearts,
International Standard Version, We have heard that some men, coming from us without instructions from us, have said things to trouble you and have unsettled you.
NET Bible, Since we have heard that some have gone out from among us with no orders from us and have confused you, upsetting your minds by what they said,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English, We hear that men among us went out and have alarmed you with words and have subverted your souls, as they were saying, 'Be circumcised and keep The Law', which we have not commanded them.
GOD'S WORD® Translation, We have heard that some individuals who came from us have confused you with statements that disturb you. We did not authorize these men [to speak].
Jubilee Bible 2000, forasmuch as we have heard that certain ones who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the law, to whom we gave no such commandment,
King James 2000 Bible, Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment
American King James Version, For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment
American Standard Version, Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;
Douay-Rheims Bible, Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment:
Darby Bible Translation, Inasmuch as we have heard that some who went out from amongst us have troubled you by words, upsetting your souls, [saying that ye must be circumcised and keep the law]; to whom we gave no commandment;
English Revised Version, Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;
Webster's Bible Translation, Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain who went out from us, have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law; to whom we gave no such commandment:
Weymouth New Testament, As we have been informed that certain persons who have gone out from among us have disturbed you by their teaching and have unsettled your minds, without having received any such instructions from us;
World English Bible, Because we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law,' to whom we gave no commandment;
Young's Literal Translation, seeing we have heard that certain having gone forth from us did trouble you with words, subverting your souls, saying to be circumcised and to keep the law, to whom we did give no charge,
So a group went out speaking a message that the 12 disciples didn not send them to speak, in the original it is not stated what the message is,
yet in later manuscripts someone added in what they chose the message was, right or wrong nothing can be added to the text and it still be authentic.
New International Version, We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
New Living Translation, We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them!
English Standard Version, Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,
New American Standard Bible, Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,
King James Bible, Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Holman Christian Standard Bible, Because we have heard that some without our authorization went out from us and troubled you with their words and unsettled your hearts,
International Standard Version, We have heard that some men, coming from us without instructions from us, have said things to trouble you and have unsettled you.
NET Bible, Since we have heard that some have gone out from among us with no orders from us and have confused you, upsetting your minds by what they said,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English, We hear that men among us went out and have alarmed you with words and have subverted your souls, as they were saying, 'Be circumcised and keep The Law', which we have not commanded them.
GOD'S WORD® Translation, We have heard that some individuals who came from us have confused you with statements that disturb you. We did not authorize these men [to speak].
Jubilee Bible 2000, forasmuch as we have heard that certain ones who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the law, to whom we gave no such commandment,
King James 2000 Bible, Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment
American King James Version, For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment
American Standard Version, Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;
Douay-Rheims Bible, Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment:
Darby Bible Translation, Inasmuch as we have heard that some who went out from amongst us have troubled you by words, upsetting your souls, [saying that ye must be circumcised and keep the law]; to whom we gave no commandment;
English Revised Version, Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;
Webster's Bible Translation, Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain who went out from us, have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law; to whom we gave no such commandment:
Weymouth New Testament, As we have been informed that certain persons who have gone out from among us have disturbed you by their teaching and have unsettled your minds, without having received any such instructions from us;
World English Bible, Because we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law,' to whom we gave no commandment;
Young's Literal Translation, seeing we have heard that certain having gone forth from us did trouble you with words, subverting your souls, saying to be circumcised and to keep the law, to whom we did give no charge,
So a group went out speaking a message that the 12 disciples didn not send them to speak, in the original it is not stated what the message is,
yet in later manuscripts someone added in what they chose the message was, right or wrong nothing can be added to the text and it still be authentic.