What does that simple question reveal?

I realize what Rom. 8:9 means.

People do tend to get bored with pullstring dolls after awhile.

I do not agree that Cornelius and the others were saved the moment they believed. They did however receive the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. Afterward they obeyed the command to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus. It was at that point that they acquired their spiritual rebirth. Their experience of both receiving the Holy Ghost and obeying the water baptism command parallels what Peter told the Jews on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:37-42)

Because there are many operations of the Spirit. What Jesus is referring to here is gifts of the Spirit.
Notice the previous verses are about things people need. Physical needs are described. And even earthly fathers, who are sinful, meet our physical needs. Now what we should come to understand is that we have a perfect heavenly Father. How much more will He provide for our spiritual needs.
Thus, as we find ourselves in life needing strength to overcome sin or understanding to minister, we should pray with the expectation that our Father will provide for our needs.
You said earlier that people won't accept what the Bible teaches. The Bible is a book unlike any other. And while the plain reading of it generally carries its meaning, careful study is also required. But even this is not enough. It also requires its author to come and illuminate our understanding.
People fall into error many times because they come to a false understanding in one area, which then colors their understanding of what they learn next. And because their previous understanding was wrong, their subsequent understanding is as well.
I say this not because I want to belittle you in any way. But the understanding of the verse you gave to refute my argument was flawed. It wasn't about the giving of the Spirit by the Father in salvation. From its context, it is clearly talking about the operation of the Spirit to meet our spiritual needs in life.
I do hope you will take some time in prayer and ask God to do the same for you. I wish you the richest of blessings.

John the Baptist, and others Baptized many PRIOR to Jesus’s death and resurrection.

They may have believed Jesus was in fact the Messiah, but they COULDN’T have known that they needed to acknowledge that Jesus had died for their sins and resurrected again to life, BECAUSE it hadn’t happened yet!

You cannot be born again without the Holy Spirit living inside you. The Holy Spirit wasn’t given UNTIL Jesus ascended.

So how can those guys, that may not have even known that Jesus died and was resurrected, receive the Holy Spirit?

And we are not “baptized into believing”. We are believing, (in Christ’s sacrificial atonement for sin, and subsequent resurrection) and THEN baptized.

John the Baptist, and others Baptized many PRIOR to Jesus’s death and resurrection.

They may have believed Jesus was in fact the Messiah, but they COULDN’T have known that they needed to acknowledge that Jesus had died for their sins and resurrected again to life, BECAUSE it hadn’t happened yet!

You cannot be born again without the Holy Spirit living inside you. The Holy Spirit wasn’t given UNTIL Jesus ascended.

So how can those guys, that may not have even known that Jesus died and was resurrected, receive the Holy Spirit?

And we are not “baptized into believing”. We are believing, (in Christ’s sacrificial atonement for sin, and subsequent resurrection) and THEN baptized.

I do not agree that Cornelius and the others were saved the moment they believed. They did however receive the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. Afterward they obeyed the command to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus. It was at that point that they acquired their spiritual rebirth. Their experience of both receiving the Holy Ghost and obeying the water baptism command parallels what Peter told the Jews on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:37-42)

Baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is a reference to water baptism. Period.

I never said nor do I believe that receiving the Holy Ghost hinges upon water baptism. Others have expressed that.

Also, nothing you stated changes the fact the in scripture "being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" is a reference to water baptism.

It simply reveals that belief does not automatically result in a person being indwelt by the Holy Ghost. The account further confirms the truth Paul's question expresses.

Consider the fact that if Paul thought belief alone brought about the reality there would have been no need for him to ask that specific question; "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?"

Exactly what happened when you received the so called baptism of holy spirit?

I remember it like it was yesterday. It was Christmas Eve 1974, about 10.30 pm. I'd met a lot of Pentecostals, including people from Teen Challenge and a missionary in Hong Kong. Eventually, it seemed clear to me that I should be baptised in the Holy Spirit myself. However, I did not receive for several months. That night I was reading yet another book about the Holy Spirit. The last page had the answer to my problem. Pat Boon said that some people did not receive because they were focused more on the gift than the giver. That was me exactly. The moment I realised that was the problem, a weight lifted off me and I began to speak in tongues. It was not forced, no one coached me, there was no emotional hype, just me and Jesus.

Longer term, I experienced some ot the manifestations of the Spirit. I prophesied, had words of knowledge, words of wisdom and spirtual discernment. I received a gift of faith for healing once also.

I also realised that being baptised in the Holy Spirit has little to do with fruit of the Spirit. Paul rebuked the "gifted" Corinthians. I discovered that the modern Pentecostal churches around my area were no better than Corinth.

The greatest risk for Pentecostals/Charismatics is spiritual pride. I've seen plenty of that.

The problem I see with the whole charismatic/Pentecostal movement is that the scriptures don't support it in today's church, and that it was limited in duration for specific reasons relative to the early church. It, the "gifts of the Spirit," or more appropriately termed, manifestations of the Spirit, those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10, were made manifest by the apostle's hands confirmed by such verses as Acts 5:12, Acts 6:6-8, Acts 8:9-19, Acts 19:6, and 2 Tim 1:6, so therefore they've all ceased as stated they would in 1 Cor 13:8 since the apostle's are dead. The gifts were needed to create, support, and propagate the early church, and unlike today, they then had no compiled written word to guide them, which purpose the gifts served. That's basically it as far as I see it relative to scripture. Is something going on today, most likely yes, but I question the source.

Sorry, but you have absolutely no scriptural basis for denying that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is for today. If you think that the perfect has come, you are deluded. Jesus is the living Word of God. No one alive has reached His perfection. If we compare the modern church to the early church, we are in even greater need of the power of the Holy Spirit.

I've been born again for around 50 years. Due to my military service and consequent travels, I experienced a great deal in the first few years of my Christian life. Where I live now, there are virtually no manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The church in general is shrivelling up. Many are losing members, especially the more traditional. Some are turning into entertainment centres. Others are embracing the world's demonic woke/progressive agenda. It's hard to find a church that functions as the body of Christ.

Be real careful about what you say about what you say about the "something". Yes, there is indeed a counterfeit of the Spirit as Jesus warned. It has deceived some of the elect. However, the reason there can be a counterfeit is because there is also the real. Don't start calling the Holy Spirit evil. God does not take kindly to that.

It is also clear from history that many revivals were associated with the restoration of the truth of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The revival that I know most about is the Welsh revival in the 1900's. There were excesses and fakes in among the real, but for sure it was an amazing time in the life of the church. It's a tragedy that the church so quickly settles into complacency and revival fizzles out. But that does not invalidate the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus told His disciples to make disciples and teach them what he taught. One of the things that Jesus said was that we need power to serve, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I can find no evidence that Lord Jesus rescinded that instruction.

Note: Paul asked the guys if they had received the Holy Ghost SINCE they believed. His question indicates he thought they believed in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection and understood they may not have received the Holy Ghost yet. The account parallels the Samaritans experience. They believed in Jesus, got water baptized in His name. They did not receive the Holy Ghost until days later.

All speculation on your part.

What is NOT speculation is that a person is saved, and sealed with the Holy Spirit WITHOUT water Baptism.

Really? you said the below :

Post 158
Wansvic,
"I do not agree that Cornelius and the others were saved the moment they believed. "

My post #158 was in answer to YOUR comment that Cornelius and the others were saved the moment they believed in Jesus and were indwelt with the Holy Ghost.

Scripture reveals acquiring the NT rebirth is a process involving steps of faith; belief in Jesus, repentance, being baptized in water in the name of Jesus, and being indwelt with the Holy Ghost as well. Clearly the Holy Ghost is not automatically received upon obedience to water baptism as confirmed in the Acts 10 account and Acts 8 too.

The detailed conversion accounts confirm the sequence in which one receives the Holy Ghost and submits to water baptism differ and are essential elements.

can you show me where in the bible it says it is a process? Other than the sanctification of the believer.


And explain the following please.

1. Peter did not lay hands on Cornelious or their family. The were baptized in the Holy Spirit, as Peter was yet speaking
2. the received the Holy Spirit before water baptism.

3. where did a person receive the Holy Spirit and not be saved first.

Have you received the Holy Ghost/Spirit SINCE you believed?