Saved by faith alone?

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J

justpassinthrough

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Oct 31, 2015
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Lamar said:
Does the phrase, "saved by faith" equivalent to the term, "saved by faith alone"?
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Absolutely not.


For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8


Faith must have grace.

Grace is the God given ability to do what we can not do, without it.


Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.


Grace, like truth, like wisdom, like understanding, like the fear of the LORD, and so many other things in the Bible is both something and Someone.


Grace is something and Someone. The Spirit of grace.


Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:28-29



Faith must have grace, because faith operates by a principle or law.

Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience to make it complete as well as alive (activated) in order for faith to produce the intended divine result.


I will break this down with scripture in the next post if you want to discuss.




JPT
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
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Feb 11, 2013
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#502
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ '

Lord didn't I do this, didn't I do that, didn't I do......AWAY FROM ME, YOU WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS.

Those in this thread thinking they are going to use their works as credits towards salvation will be told to DEPART from the Lord. The verse above in Matthew are those who thought they did enough, who thought they were good enough who THOUGHT their works would be credited unto them as righteousness. It's going to be a major shock to them on that soon coming day.

Note: in the verse above it never says "didn't we show enough faith?" It's all based on works that God is throwing out. They lacked true saving faith...faith ALONE.
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

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#503
Feb 22, 2021
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#503
op: faith alone? or faith + works??

No one has addressed the following 'view' yet...
------
In God's Context of prophecy / covenants / law = "faith PLUS works"

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

In God's Other Context of Mystery / Grace = "Grace Through faith"
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Both sides are absolutely Scriptural, but one of them is UNdispensational, Yes?

More here: I have decided to follow Jesus?
and here:

UnScriptural or UNdispensational?

Amen.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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May 21, 2023
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justpassinthrough said:
Absolutely not.


For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8


Faith must have grace.

Grace is the God given ability to do what we can not do, without it.


Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.


Grace, like truth, like wisdom, like understanding, like the fear of the LORD, and so many other things in the Bible is both something and Someone.


Grace is something and Someone. The Spirit of grace.


Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:28-29



Faith must have grace, because faith operates by a principle or law.

Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience to make it complete as well as alive (activated) in order for faith to produce the intended divine result.


I will break this down with scripture in the next post if you want to discuss.




JPT
Click to expand...
Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience to make it complete as well as alive (activated) in order for faith to produce the intended divine result.

Your above statement is quote correct but many here will label it as heresy, lawlessness or works-salvation.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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NewYorkHarry said:
As Pastor Harry representing https://BibleHeaven.org, I would like to address the question about the phrases "saved by faith" and "saved by faith alone." While both phrases are related to the concept of salvation in Christianity, they carry slightly different theological implications.

The phrase "saved by faith" generally refers to the Christian belief that salvation is a gift from God that comes through faith in Jesus Christ. This means that belief in Jesus as the Son of God, who died for our sins and rose again, is the central foundation for receiving God's grace and eternal life. It emphasizes the importance of faith as the means by which individuals enter into a personal relationship with God and become recipients of His salvation.

On the other hand, the term "saved by faith alone" often represents a specific theological position known as "sola fide," which emerged during the Protestant Reformation. This doctrine asserts that faith is the sole basis for salvation, and no human works or efforts can contribute to one's justification before God. In this context, "faith alone" highlights the belief that salvation is entirely a result of God's grace received through faith, without any merit from our deeds.

While some Christian denominations emphasize "faith alone" as a core doctrine, others may view it as part of a broader understanding of salvation, where faith and good works complement each other. These Christians believe that genuine faith naturally leads to a life characterized by acts of love, compassion, and obedience to God's commandments.

Ultimately, the exact interpretation of these phrases may vary among different theological perspectives within Christianity. However, at https://BibleHeaven.org, our goal is to promote a balanced understanding of salvation, emphasizing the transformative power of faith in Jesus Christ, and the loving response it inspires in us towards God and others.
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"In this context, "faith alone" highlights the belief that salvation is entirely a result of God's grace received through faith, without any merit from our deeds." We are well pass this point. The majority of the people here are strict faith alone regeneration theology followers and hence are willing to label ANY acts of obedience as acts of merit. They are willing to go so far as label the submission to baptism for the remission of sins as heresy. They have no bounds.

In their zeal for "sola fide" they have become modern day Pharisees. They are unwilling to even "knock for the door to be opened" afraid that the act of knocking is a work of virtue.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#507
Lamar said:
"In this context, "faith alone" highlights the belief that salvation is entirely a result of God's grace received through faith, without any merit from our deeds." We are well pass this point. The majority of the people here are strict faith alone regeneration theology followers and hence are willing to label ANY acts of obedience as acts of merit. They are willing to go so far as label the submission to baptism for the remission of sins as heresy. They have no bounds.

In their zeal for "sola fide" they have become modern day Pharisees. They are unwilling to even "knock for the door to be opened" afraid that the act of knocking is a work of virtue.
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You are actually mischaracterizing the argument. You use the phrase...without any merit from our deeds. The argument is that no deeds are necessary at all for salvation. But there is the expectation that deeds will follow faith.
Here's the difference:
Grace employs faith which produces salvation. Faith will then produce works.
In your understanding:
Grace produces works which when completed produces faith and salvation.

The above explanation is what I have deduced from a variety of your posts. If I have mischaracterized your position, please take the time to explain it to me.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Lamar said:
"In this context, "faith alone" highlights the belief that salvation is entirely a
result of God's grace received through faith, without any merit from our deeds."
Click to expand...

John 5:24-25
:)
 
Lamar

Lamar

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Cameron143 said:
You are actually mischaracterizing the argument. You use the phrase...without any merit from our deeds. The argument is that no deeds are necessary at all for salvation. But there is the expectation that deeds will follow faith.
Here's the difference:
Grace employs faith which produces salvation. Faith will then produce works.
In your understanding:
Grace produces works which when completed produces faith and salvation.

The above explanation is what I have deduced from a variety of your posts. If I have mischaracterized your position, please take the time to explain it to me.
Click to expand...
You use the phrase...without any merit from our deeds. Are you sure this phrase is from me? It does not seem like something I would write. Could you provide the post number of my use of this phrase.

In your understanding:
Grace produces works which when completed produces faith and salvation. I don't even understand the meaning of this comment. I believe faith comes before grace, works or salvation. And faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, not from grace.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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P
Lamar said:
You use the phrase...without any merit from our deeds. Are you sure this phrase is from me? It does not seem like something I would write. Could you provide the post number of my use of this phrase.

In your understanding:
Grace produces works which when completed produces faith and salvation. I don't even understand the meaning of this comment. I believe faith comes before grace, works or salvation. And faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, not from grace.
Click to expand...
Perhaps the phrase is quoted but it is difficult to tell whether it was part of a previous post because of the way you copy material, but it was in your post that I addressed.
As far as grace coming after faith, Ephesians 2:8 is plain...For by grace are we saved through faith...Grace clearly precedes faith and is it's cause. If not for God's grace there is no faith and no salvation.
A good example is Noah. He found grace in the sight of the Lord. As a result, God spoke to him...faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Noah believed what God said...faith...and built the ark...a work.
Grace leads to faith which produces works.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Lamar said:
I believe faith comes before grace, works or salvation. And faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, not from grace.
Click to expand...
Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.” (John 6:44)
And, “No one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” (John 6:65)

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is
the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8–9)

Faith is also presented as a gift from God in 2 Peter 1:1, Philippians 1:29, and Acts 3:16.


John 6:63
:)
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
As far as grace coming after faith, Ephesians 2:8 is plain...For by grace are we saved through faith...
Grace clearly precedes faith and is it's cause. If not for God's grace there is no faith and no salvation.
Click to expand...
That is so true. Saying faith precedes grace is like saying man moves
first and then God responds, when it is clearly the other way around.


Romans 11:32
:)
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#515
Lamar said:
Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience to make it complete as well as alive (activated) in order for faith to produce the intended divine result.

Your above statement is quote correct but many here will label it as heresy, lawlessness or works-salvation.
Click to expand...
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness (which produced the divine result) was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. (James 2:18) That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham's faith remained dead and unactivated in Genesis 15:6 until many years later, after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. It also does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar many years later in Genesis 22 either.

When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Yet Abraham was still accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. The argument made by JPT (which you agree with) culminates in works-salvation which is heresy. (Romans 4:2-6)
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Beckie said:
Really equating water to the Blood of Jesus really?

Did babies toddlers and other youngsters cross the Red Sea?

Act 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Do we know there were no kids in Lydia's household?

1Co_1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other
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Baptism is not required of young children. Scripture reveals obedience to the command requires a conscious decision on the part of the individual submitting to it:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:36-37
 
selahsays

selahsays

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selahsays said:
Good morning, brothers and sisters. :)

It is by our Father’s all-sufficient GRACE that we are saved—Salvation is God's gift. Nothing about it comes from ourselves; it is given and placed within the ❤️ by our Father’s loving hands. There it is, finished, if you want it. You don’t make it your own. Why? because this gift is perfect, a masterpiece—it is so, so precious and costly that Christ Jesus suffered greatly and shed His own precious blood for it … selah …

And so, being a gift from God, it is forEver secure, in contrast to human gifts which quickly deteriorate. Our Lord Jesus declares in John 14:27, "Not as the world giveth, give I unto you." If our Lord Jesus offers you salvation right now, you have it now and you will always have it. He won't take it back, and if He can't take it away from you, who else can? If he saves you right now through faith, you are saved—so saved that you will never perish.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand —John 10:28
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Here is another wonderful example of our Father’s ALL-SUFFICIENT GRACE in the Millennium (This is prophecy; it hasn’t happened yet.)

But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."

- Hebrews 10:15-17
 
Radius

Radius

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#518
Lamar do you just throw out all of Eph. 2:8?
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."

How clear can Scripture be? It literally tells you HOW to be saved and how NOT to be saved. You are 100% saying the Bible is wrong, that you do have to work your way there and that works are need in conjunction with the cross.

TO ALL NEW BELIEVERS OR ANYONE ELSE READING THIS THREAD. Please don't go along with Lamar's doctrine. It leads to the pits of hell. If you die and tell God right to His face that you are here because of what YOU did....Dear Lord...it won't end well for you.
 
Radius

Radius

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#519
Anyone else witnessing the heretical preaching of roman Catholicism and works-based salvation, please step up and snuff it out. Do your part. we cant let this preaching go unchecked on this board. This is CHRISTIAN CHAT not Catholicism chat.
 
Mem

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man hears my voice and open the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me.

Grace (with His Presence at the Door) knocks. We hear the knock (His Voice) and open the Door, and He comes in to sit at our/His table.
Strong's Greek 1172 explains it, "; in an allegory, I will make him share in my most intimate and blissful contact: Revelation 3:20." which follows the context of Jesus saying, "I know your deeds..." wherein Sardis' are incomplete in spite of its reputation for being alive, an open door is placed in front of Philadelphia by the One who holds the key of David and what He opens no one can shut and what He shuts no one can open, and Laodicea's being neither cold nor hot.

Jesus begins His address to each church by saying, 'I know your deeds,' (in case any of them might think to bother to bring them up for consideration?) and concludes in each of His addresses that complete Faith (in Him alone) is the key to, 1) walking with Him in white, 2) His Name written on them, and 3) sitting with Him on His throne.
 
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