The Second Coming is NOT the Rapture

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,879
5,623
113
#41
I agree with you 100% I wish more people would open up their eyes and ears to what you have posted here, they should take to heart the fact that when God explains or interprets something we do not need to try and change it to fit our doctrine, our church belief etc.
amen that’s the key the New Testament is the right interpretation and doesn’t need any further special knowledge it simply needs hearing and belief that it’s true that’s the key to understanding the Bible it’s that there is no special recipe and we don’t need all the crazy interpretations the new is the interpretation of the old
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
581
187
43
#42
1Thessalonians 4:17 is the scripture used to teach a false doctrine. In this verse the words “ caught up” are called the “rapture”. The words IN LATIN are called “rapture” so I guess you could call it that, but this chapter is not talking about a SECRET “snatching away” of the righteous as many teach. Read verses 13-17. The Bible only teaches ONE resurrection—not two, one for the righteous and another for the wicked. This second coming of Jesus in 1 Thess. Says only that the righteous will be raised FIRST. It also says that it will be accompanied by a LOUD SHOUT and a TRUMPET OF GOD. False teachers say this is going to be secretive— no one will know but the righteous. Not so. The shout and trumpet are attention getters. There is NOTHING in this scripture that suggests this is done in secrecy. This passage tells us what will happen to the righteous; other passages tell us what will happen to the wicked. The contex for these verses show that some Christians were worried about those saved people who had already died. See verse 13. There is nothing about a tribulation following this event.
 
Jan 26, 2023
31
7
8
#43
1Thessalonians 4:17 is the scripture used to teach a false doctrine. In this verse the words “ caught up” are called the “rapture”. The words IN LATIN are called “rapture” so I guess you could call it that, but this chapter is not talking about a SECRET “snatching away” of the righteous as many teach. Read verses 13-17. The Bible only teaches ONE resurrection—not two, one for the righteous and another for the wicked. This second coming of Jesus in 1 Thess. Says only that the righteous will be raised FIRST. It also says that it will be accompanied by a LOUD SHOUT and a TRUMPET OF GOD. False teachers say this is going to be secretive— no one will know but the righteous. Not so. The shout and trumpet are attention getters. There is NOTHING in this scripture that suggests this is done in secrecy. This passage tells us what will happen to the righteous; other passages tell us what will happen to the wicked. The contex for these verses show that some Christians were worried about those saved people who had already died. See verse 13. There is nothing about a tribulation following this event.
The rapture does not have to be done in secrecy for one to consider TWO resurrection for the Saints..

From what I understand, as the rapture happens, the first resurrection is also taking place and these two groups meet the Lord in the air. This is almost like one event. However, I still consider there is a second resurrection for the righteous after the millennial reign and here is why:

In REV 20:4 we are given details on which of the Saints are included in the first resurrection: beheaded Saints, and the Saints who remained faithful during the great trib... Whether the beheaded Saints are of the tribulation or not is not known for sure, but the point is if all Saints would be included in the first resurrection why these passages are so specific then?

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. - Rev 20:4

Now we could also say that the phrase "those who had not worshiped the beast," ... could be interpreted as not only those Saints that came out of the tribulation, but the rest also.. (description would fit even John the Baptist for example).. but we still have REV 7 to deal with where those same Saints of the tribulation are also mentioned, and these are NOT ALL of the Saints though their number is extremely great:

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
...
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So this seems to limit the number of Saints that are resurrected during the first resurrection:
- Those that are beheaded or their faith (whether of great trib or not)
- Those that remained faithful during the great trib

P.S.:
BTW, do we have an exact start and end of the tribulation period? I don't mean dates, rather what event(s) start and end it...
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,188
1,598
113
Midwest
#45
Correction:
- Those that are beheaded of their faith (whether of great trib or not)
I apologize, but I can't remember ( old age? ) if I sent you this or not?:

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
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#46
The Bible only teaches ONE resurrection—not two, one for the righteous and another for the wicked.
That statement is TOTALLY FALSE. God does not mingle the resurrection of saints with that the damned. Also the resurrection of the Church is a long time before the Great White Throne Judgment.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
531
113
#47
That statement is TOTALLY FALSE. God does not mingle the resurrection of saints with that the damned. Also the resurrection of the Church is a long time before the Great White Throne Judgment.
I have to say Nehemiah6 that I don't know how you can escape the force of Hebrews 9:28. But first read Hebrews 9:27, "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this the judgment, vs28, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear A SECOND time for salvation without reference to sin, for those who eagerly await Him." So where's the rapture of the church?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
113
#48
So where's the rapture of the church?
You just quoted the Rapture of the Church and totally missed it! Amazing how a false belief can blind people to the truth.

So let's take another look at Hebrews 9:28 and let's break it down: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many: This is obviously a reference to the offering up of the Lamb of God, who took away the sin of the world at the cross. But why does it says "the sins of many" and not "the sins of all"? Because not all would believe, therefore the sacrifice of Christ would not be applied to their souls. But still there would be many who believe. Indeed they cannot be counted according to the Bible.

2. and unto them that look for him: Would the unbelieving world be looking for Christ, when they know deep down that they would only face His wrath? So who would be those who "look for him" other than the saints who eagerly await the Blessed Hope of Christ coming for them at the Rapture?

3. shall he appear the second time: This takes us back to John 14:1-3: Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. "I will come again" speaks of "the second time" when He shall appear.

4. without sin: Why "without sin"? Because the sin question was settled at the cross. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and paid the sin debt in full. There now remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

5. unto salvation: And here is where the majority of Christians have failed to understand the significance of the Resurrection/Rapture. People are so wrapped up in the prophetic aspects of the Resurrection/Rapture that they completely miss the spiritual significance of this glorious event. God has promised to perfect and glorify His saints, and also give them immortal and glorious bodies. THIS IS THE CULMINATION OF SALVATION. So when Paul says "unto salvation" he is pointing to the end result of salvation. Which is perfection and glorification. And this takes place at the Resurrection/Rapture.
 

Saul-to-Paul

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2017
403
71
28
#49
1Thessalonians 4:17 is the scripture used to teach a false doctrine. In this verse the words “ caught up” are called the “rapture”. The words IN LATIN are called “rapture” so I guess you could call it that, but this chapter is not talking about a SECRET “snatching away” of the righteous as many teach. Read verses 13-17. The Bible only teaches ONE resurrection—not two, one for the righteous and another for the wicked. This second coming of Jesus in 1 Thess. Says only that the righteous will be raised FIRST. It also says that it will be accompanied by a LOUD SHOUT and a TRUMPET OF GOD. False teachers say this is going to be secretive— no one will know but the righteous. Not so. The shout and trumpet are attention getters. There is NOTHING in this scripture that suggests this is done in secrecy. This passage tells us what will happen to the righteous; other passages tell us what will happen to the wicked. The contex for these verses show that some Christians were worried about those saved people who had already died. See verse 13. There is nothing about a tribulation following this event.
Revelation 11:12
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,766
621
113
#52
You know lol reminds me when I was young and being told in the 70-80's JESUS IS COMING.. some of you know what I am talking about to then find out "ever generation before us believed they were the last"... the wall falls on you, floor gives out.. what? Stuck here for the rest of my life? haha. Ooh then you find out Israel.. became a nation and then in one day as it was written it would be.

So know I just watch ready..