Noah’s ark and faith
- Thread starter Pilgrimshope
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Amen Enoch is a really intriguing figure to me because I believe he is a Christian ( before you conclude me a nut lol) , what I mean is Jesus promises this in the gospel and what God had given to those folks like Enoch in those early generations are the same
enoch particularly
“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
Genesis 5:22-24 KJV
sin the New Testament often the writers will take those men and use them as an example to Christians almost like Enoch summarizes a perfect Christian because he isn’t Jesus , but he walked with God by faith , and was saved from death like Jesus promises to Christians in the gospel
later we learn more in the nt about him when they are ensampling him for us to look to regarding the specific subject of faith and salvation and then his translation from flesh to spirit
“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death;
and was not found, because God had translated him:
for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
Hebrews 11:5 KJV
Now some things Jesus told his disciples present and future who hear and believe his word in the everlasting gospel what I’m trying to say of enoch being Christian is he’s like the example of a perfect Christian and has the same promises fulfilled because of his faith in God wand walking by faith and not sight like Noah
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;( death sentance for sin ) but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you,
If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51 KJV
If we walk by faith following the lord like enoch did then it was still the same Lord then as now just a lot happened after the flood until the gospel was fulfilled and reconciled everything
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
…..And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good:
and God divided the light from the darkness.”
Genesis 1:1-4 KJV
and the gospel
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1-5, 9-10, 12-14 KJV
But the time of the law and it’s mediators word ?
“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:12-15
enoch particularly
“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
Genesis 5:22-24 KJV
sin the New Testament often the writers will take those men and use them as an example to Christians almost like Enoch summarizes a perfect Christian because he isn’t Jesus , but he walked with God by faith , and was saved from death like Jesus promises to Christians in the gospel
later we learn more in the nt about him when they are ensampling him for us to look to regarding the specific subject of faith and salvation and then his translation from flesh to spirit
“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death;
and was not found, because God had translated him:
for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
Hebrews 11:5 KJV
Now some things Jesus told his disciples present and future who hear and believe his word in the everlasting gospel what I’m trying to say of enoch being Christian is he’s like the example of a perfect Christian and has the same promises fulfilled because of his faith in God wand walking by faith and not sight like Noah
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;( death sentance for sin ) but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you,
If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51 KJV
If we walk by faith following the lord like enoch did then it was still the same Lord then as now just a lot happened after the flood until the gospel was fulfilled and reconciled everything
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
…..And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good:
and God divided the light from the darkness.”
Genesis 1:1-4 KJV
and the gospel
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1-5, 9-10, 12-14 KJV
But the time of the law and it’s mediators word ?
“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:12-15
-
1
- Show all
I liked this.
You wrote
Wouldn't it be more accurate to write "Noah was given grace, so God told him..." Certainly faith comes by hearing but it is not made compulsory because of it: one may hear God and not believe. Then, for Noah to claim to have faith there is, of necessity, the appearance of work commensurate with the word that was given.
God, "Build and ark."
Noah, "Okay!" (no appearance of faith yet)
Noah then builds an ark. (faith is seen and confirmed)
Paul writes to Titus:
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men..."
If faith is inserted because of grace then we will come up with empty doctrines like universal salvation.
But Paul continued...
"..teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."
That's quite a list! To have faith, then, men must be doers of thee word: to combine works commensurate with the word of God that was heard.
I hope I stayed on topic sufficiently.
You wrote
Wouldn't it be more accurate to write "Noah was given grace, so God told him..." Certainly faith comes by hearing but it is not made compulsory because of it: one may hear God and not believe. Then, for Noah to claim to have faith there is, of necessity, the appearance of work commensurate with the word that was given.
God, "Build and ark."
Noah, "Okay!" (no appearance of faith yet)
Noah then builds an ark. (faith is seen and confirmed)
Paul writes to Titus:
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men..."
If faith is inserted because of grace then we will come up with empty doctrines like universal salvation.
But Paul continued...
"..teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."
That's quite a list! To have faith, then, men must be doers of thee word: to combine works commensurate with the word of God that was heard.
I hope I stayed on topic sufficiently.
“I hope I stayed on topic sufficiently.
”in any thread I start you are free to take the subject to any point you wish brother you have a good biblical mind and I love to roam in a discussion without any guardrails as long as there’s some loose reference to the basic general subject lol even if we need to squint to see it
Consider this example and think about the process of how faith worked and what was required to make it so
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven;
and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
Exodus 10:21-22 KJV
Even though the power is Gods word , moses has to hear what he said believe it and obey for it to come to pass
brother your thoughts are always appreciated and a blessing in my book in any subject or thread you have “cart Blanche “ along with anyone else who is respectful roam wherever whenever
-
2
- Show all
For us, looking back, the ark is a type of Christ. The cross of Jesus was hid from the beginning of the world. It was not made known until after it happened. Noah certainly didn't put his faith and trust in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Noah had God's word, the word God gave him at the time. Noah believed God concerning the flood and obeyed by building the ark with fear.
-
1
- Show all
amen also some really good points brother as always
“I hope I stayed on topic sufficiently.”
in any thread I start you are free to take the subject to any point you wish brother you have a good biblical mind and I love to roam in a discussion without any guardrails as long as there’s some loose reference to the basic general subject lol even if we need to squint to see it
Consider this example and think about the process of how faith worked and what was required to make it so
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven;
and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
Exodus 10:21-22 KJV
Even though the power is Gods word , moses has to hear what he said believe it and obey for it to come to pass
brother your thoughts are always appreciated and a blessing in my book in any subject or thread you have “cart Blanche “ along with anyone else who is respectful roam wherever whenever
“I hope I stayed on topic sufficiently.
”in any thread I start you are free to take the subject to any point you wish brother you have a good biblical mind and I love to roam in a discussion without any guardrails as long as there’s some loose reference to the basic general subject lol even if we need to squint to see it
Consider this example and think about the process of how faith worked and what was required to make it so
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven;
and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
Exodus 10:21-22 KJV
Even though the power is Gods word , moses has to hear what he said believe it and obey for it to come to pass
brother your thoughts are always appreciated and a blessing in my book in any subject or thread you have “cart Blanche “ along with anyone else who is respectful roam wherever whenever
Yes!
It gives dimension to "God's word will not return void".
Full verse: "So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it."
God started making His plan of redemption known in Genesis 3 when He went to Adam and Eve and clothed them in animal skins. In doing so, He was foreshadowing the shed blood of Christ.
How much OT saints understood concerning all this is not known. But there was some understanding for sure.
I believe salvation has always been God making provision for mankind who is and was unable to do so for himself. That means salvation has always been of grace.
How much OT saints understood concerning all this is not known. But there was some understanding for sure.
I believe salvation has always been God making provision for mankind who is and was unable to do so for himself. That means salvation has always been of grace.
Genesis 3 has the shedding of blood. I'm still divided on what Abraham's Bosom actually entails. But looking forward to a future Messiah who would shed His blood was pictured from early on.
Romans 8 speaks of believers as already being glorified but we aren't. God speaks that way because His intent to do something will always bring it to pass. We are limited to time and space. God is not.
If we can look back and understand the prefiguring of Christ in the ark, there is no reason to believe OT saints couldn't look forward. For example, we know Abraham believed in the resurrection because he believed that even if he sacrificed Isaac, God would raise him.
Romans 8 speaks of believers as already being glorified but we aren't. God speaks that way because His intent to do something will always bring it to pass. We are limited to time and space. God is not.
If we can look back and understand the prefiguring of Christ in the ark, there is no reason to believe OT saints couldn't look forward. For example, we know Abraham believed in the resurrection because he believed that even if he sacrificed Isaac, God would raise him.
-
1
- Show all
Well the fact that there was a "tree of life" in Eden in chapter 2 already tells us that God planned to give eternal life to those who were redeemed by grace. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. (Gen 2:9) But Adam and Eve were barred from that tree (which in fact was a type of Christ). Now that tree is in the Paradise of God. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (Rev 22:2)
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Where in the Bible do you find that he "prophesied about the Second Coming of Christ"? I don't find it there. And how do you know that his ascendence points to the Rapture, as you put it? Of course, Elijah ascends to heaven in a chariot. Are we going to ride chariots to heaven too? I'm not making fun of you. These are serious questions about interpreting the Bible.
so Paul’s wrong ?
“Wherefore, as by one man ( Adam ) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”
Romans 5:12, 14
Our parents Adam and Eve corrupted all mankind thier offsporng when they ignored Gods commandment and warning about death eating the forbidden fruit of the knowledge of good and evil corrupted them
the very first child they had murdered the second lol I’d say mankind was pretty imperfect after they ate the corrupt fruit God warned them about
God told them how to live and be blessed with him just like he did in the gospel
and then after he told them how to live and be blessed Satan said no that’s not true listen to my argument of why it’s not true what he said
faith is when you believe what the lord said about anything relevant to you and reject what the explaination of why it’s not true or applicable
faith isn’t the new reason man doesnt need to stop serving sin satans Will for man and start serving Gods Will for man good and uprightness it’s the reason we now can change and live
“Wherefore, as by one man ( Adam ) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”
Romans 5:12, 14
Our parents Adam and Eve corrupted all mankind thier offsporng when they ignored Gods commandment and warning about death eating the forbidden fruit of the knowledge of good and evil corrupted them
the very first child they had murdered the second lol I’d say mankind was pretty imperfect after they ate the corrupt fruit God warned them about
God told them how to live and be blessed with him just like he did in the gospel
and then after he told them how to live and be blessed Satan said no that’s not true listen to my argument of why it’s not true what he said
faith is when you believe what the lord said about anything relevant to you and reject what the explaination of why it’s not true or applicable
faith isn’t the new reason man doesnt need to stop serving sin satans Will for man and start serving Gods Will for man good and uprightness it’s the reason we now can change and live
Yes the same way everyone ever has been none were perfect but like David he commuted several terrible sins adultery , coveting , lying and deceiving plotting murder and executing the plan against a good man but after David died and was gone God speaks of him like this
“and rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;”
1 Kings 14:8 KJV
air soesnt say David was perfect it says he kept the commandments ( even though he broke many ) he followed the lord with all his heart and it was David’s Will to do only what was right in his eyes everyone is going to be saved by trusting what god said to them for us it’s the gospel
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
this of course isn’t the whole message but a summary believe the gospel and be baptized we need to hear what Jesus said and believe him
“and rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;”
1 Kings 14:8 KJV
air soesnt say David was perfect it says he kept the commandments ( even though he broke many ) he followed the lord with all his heart and it was David’s Will to do only what was right in his eyes everyone is going to be saved by trusting what god said to them for us it’s the gospel
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
this of course isn’t the whole message but a summary believe the gospel and be baptized we need to hear what Jesus said and believe him
Do you believe Jesus Christ preached the one true gospel John ? was he a false teacher of a false gospel because you don’t understand Paul’s epistles ?
“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
Luke 4:17-19, 21 KJV
“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
Luke 4:17-19, 21 KJV
-
1
- Show all
a what are you talking about here no one has said this but you here lol
“To believe that the OT saints were eternally saved by other means is saying that the cross of Christ was not necessary.”
“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
Revelation 13:8 KJV
irs eternal it covers everyone even those who died in the flood or will die tomorrow
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV
The water saved them because they were on a boat they built by gods commandment . are you saying this is false too or?
“To believe that the OT saints were eternally saved by other means is saying that the cross of Christ was not necessary.”
“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
Revelation 13:8 KJV
irs eternal it covers everyone even those who died in the flood or will die tomorrow
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV
The water saved them because they were on a boat they built by gods commandment . are you saying this is false too or?
-
2
- Show all