Three Questions for Calvinists

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
We should actually examine this concept of Total Depravity.

This idea, I am so bound by SIN, it's impossible to look at Creation and think this is God, or a god, did this...

Is that REALLY what the WORD of God claims?

19 because what can be known about God is plain to themfor God has shown it to them.
20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse
21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God

To Summerize the Message of these Scriptures:
what can be known about God is plain to themfor God has shown it to them, So people are without excuseeven though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God



The REAL IMPORTANT KEY HERE IS:
even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God


^
This Tells Me:
I am NOT SO DEPRAVED, because God, has made things so OBVIOUS to me, a SINNER, I still KNOW He is God, I just DO NOT CHOOSE to Glorify Him as God!



Once again, You create a Doctrine off Faulty Translations, of Personal Human Interpretations, it will get DESTROYED, by the TRUE WORD of GOD, EVERY TIME!
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
Are you synergistic in your soteriology? A simple yes or no will do.
No!
I had to Google this.
Heck NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!


I have a License here, Self Defense, I am in every Police Data across the USA.
synergistic is Mind over Matter and Aligning Mind, Body, Soul.

NO, that is not part of my belief.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
No!
I had to Google this.
Heck NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
Glad you finally googled the thing you’ve been fighting me about.

You’ve been declaring a synergistic soteriology this entire time whether you realize it or not.

Carry on down the rabbit hole and remember, it’s best not to respond to things before you understand them.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
Glad you finally googled the thing you’ve been fighting me about.

You’ve been declaring a synergistic soteriology this entire time whether you realize it or not.

Carry on down the rabbit hole and remember, it’s best not to respond to things before you understand them.
No, I declare, BOTH Calvin and Armini ARE EQUALLY WRONG, because, their Doctrines, are not even from God, they come from a HUMAN's Esoteric Opinion!

As someone raised Southern Baptist, I had the Same Training, in Deflection, that you are now doing, with these futile posts.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
Are you synergistic in your soteriology? A simple yes or no will do.
No!
I had to Google this.
Heck NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!


I have a License here, Self Defense, I am in every Police Data across the USA.
synergistic is Mind over Matter and Aligning Mind, Body, Soul.

NO, that is not part of my belief.
@Magenta it’s likely you’re in the same boat as your synergistic buddy @The_Watchers_2017 No clue what’s being said yet still driven to fight by your hatred for all things Calvin.

I’ll leave you both to it 😂
Carry on
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
@Magenta it’s likely you’re in the same boat as your synergistic buddy @The_Watchers_2017
No clue what’s being said yet still driven to fight by your hatred for all things Calvin.

I’ll leave you both to it 😂
Carry on
You show with just about every post you make to me that you are totally clueless.

I have even shown you how you assume wrongly over and over again and you ignore it.

You prefer your ignorance and false accusations .:rolleyes:.


Jesus' Words in John 6:65
:)
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
@Magenta it’s likely you’re in the same boat as your synergistic buddy @The_Watchers_2017 No clue what’s being said yet still driven to fight by your hatred for all things Calvin.

I’ll leave you both to it 😂
Carry on
If I believe, BOTH Calvin and Armini Are Wrong, how does that boil down towards hatred, for Calvin?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
If I believe, BOTH Calvin and Armini Are Wrong, how does that boil down towards hatred, for Calvin?
Because he says so. That's all that he requires, despite any evidence to the contrary, including his own contradictions.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
To all my Calvinist (reformed) brothers and sisters here. We are, and will always be, the few among the many. The monergistic remnant swarmed by the synergistic hordes. Don’t be drug into the weeds by these folks, simply remind them of the company they keep.

Islam
Mormonism
Jehovah Witnesses
Hinduism
Buddhism
Satanism
Scientology
Classic Penticostal
Roman Catholicism
Oneness Pentecostalism
General Baptist
All liberal Christianity
All gay and lesbian “pastors”
Joel Osteen
Beth More
Kenneth Copeland
Todd White
Td jakes
Etc. Etc. Etc.

All “synergistic”
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
To all my Calvinist (reformed) brothers and sisters here. We are, and will always be, the few among the many. The monergistic remnant swarmed by the synergistic hordes. Don’t be drug into the weeds by these folks, simply remind them of the company they keep.

Islam
Mormonism
Jehovah Witnesses
Hinduism
Buddhism
Satanism
Scientology
Classic Penticostal
Roman Catholicism
Oneness Pentecostalism
General Baptist
All liberal Christianity
All gay and lesbian “pastors”
Joel Osteen
Beth More
Kenneth Copeland
Todd White
Td jakes
Etc. Etc. Etc.

All “synergistic”
If a Doctrine is made from Esoteric Opinion [Septuagint], which is NOT Biblical, it is indeed Satanic!
Thank God, we can toss the Reformed Doctrines, now.

Is the Septuagint the same as the Tanakh?

The Septuagint does not consist of a single, unified corpus. Rather, it is a collection of ancient translations of the Tanakh, along with other Jewish texts that are now commonly referred to as apocrypha.

What does apocrypha mean?
apocrypha, (from Greek apokryptein, “to hide away”), in biblical literature, works outside an accepted canon of scripture. The history of the term's usage indicates that it referred to a body of esoteric writings that were at first prized, later tolerated, and finally excluded.


Reformed Doctrines are literally based off apocrypha, or better known as, esoteric writings.

What is Esoteric Writings?

a personal interpretation!
 
May 29, 2023
56
18
8
Planet Earth
To all my Calvinist (reformed) brothers and sisters here. We are, and will always be, the few among the many. The monergistic remnant swarmed by the synergistic hordes. Don’t be drug into the weeds by these folks, simply remind them of the company they keep.

Islam
Mormonism
Jehovah Witnesses
Hinduism
Buddhism
Satanism
Scientology
Classic Penticostal
Roman Catholicism
Oneness Pentecostalism
General Baptist
All liberal Christianity
All gay and lesbian “pastors”
Joel Osteen
Beth More
Kenneth Copeland
Todd White
Td jakes
Etc. Etc. Etc.

All “synergistic”
What you call "synergystic", I call Scriptural; speaking on that point:

In Calvinism, there is the "doctrine" of predestination (as I'm sure you know already), i.e. that the Lord God chose from the beginning whom would be saved and who would not. According to it: basically, if a person is saved, there's nothing they can do to lose their salvation according to this line of thinking: God chose them and that is that. Alternately, if they were not chosen to be saved, there is nothing that they can do to change this and must thus accept their fate in hell (and thus subsequently, the Lake of Fire).

Scripture says the following:

"“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ “Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

(Matthew 25:34-46, NASB
1995, emphasis mine)

So, two things here:

1) The passage "Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."; many take this to mean " God chose you from the beginning so He's been working on this for you from the beginning". But this assumes God chose them from the beginning, and we find no indication of that here, nor in the Greek texts. Instead, what is confirmed is that the reward has been prepared for those "blessed of my Father (God the Father)'; it shows that the "kingdom" is the eternal kingdom which is the end result of all the ages, and whose preparation was begun with the creation of the heavens and the Earth.

2) The passage "Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;", to put it frankly: if the Lord God chose from the beginning who would be saved or damned, then why did Jesus not mention unsaved humans as those for which this fire had been prepared?

Or in other words: Man was never intended to go to the Lake of Fire. And one cannot claim "man was just meant to go to Hades":

"Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. " (Revelation 20:11;15, NASB 1995, emphasis mine)

The Greek word used here, Hades literally means "the abode of the dead", not "the grave" (indicated by the Greek word used for Death, Thanatos . Since "death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire", this means that neither could be considered a permanent situation for the unsaved, as it was always God's plan to remove death from the world permanently.

Scripture here demonstrates that Hell was never originally intended for Mankind. Man ended up bound for there when he sinned in the Garden of Eden, disobeying the Lord's only rule and making it impossible for the Lord to fellowship with man. This is why Jesus Christ had to die for us in our place.

On a final note: love cannot exist where there is no ability to choose either to love or not to love. When God created man, He also created within them the ability to make decisions and choose freely according to how they wished and felt (free will). This was necessary because love can never be coerced, OR IT IS NOT LOVE. This can be easily demonstrated by telling someone "you must tell me that you love me!" The words will have no meaning, because there is nothing there to back them. Love is caring for someone's greatest good, and when people truly love one another, they want the best for them even if it means that "best" may not be with that particular person. But if they truly love you back, they also care for your greatest good as well. God gave Adam and Eve the ability to choose to love Him or not, and the ability whether to obey Him or not.

Since "God is love" (in this case, the definition of it, as His attributes and innate nature define all things in this universe), rather than choosing to make "preprogrammed meat robots", He gave them the ability to chose for their greatest good.

Unfortunately, they chose POORLY.

With all of that said: Calvinism cannot be correct. In order for it to be true, God would have to violate a basic part of His nature, use people for a means to an end, disregard the human dignity and His Own Image that He created them in, and utterly break several passages of Scripture just for Calvinism to be true.

And he's not about to do that.

So, "synergistic"? Since all throughout Scripture we are given action commands to "watch", "listen", "repent", "pray", "follow", "walk", "do" and such...you bet the BIBLE that salvation is "synergistic"!

After all, the opposite of that is...

REBELLION

-Sojo414
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
248
82
28
Yeah, we know 🤦‍♂️

Calvinism can be reduced to one word: monergistic.

Ariminianism, Pelagianism/Semi-Pelagianism, all liberal Christianity, Islam, Mormonism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Roman Catholicism, Luciferianism etc. can be reduced to one word: synergistic.

All satanic religions have at their core the notion man is able, in some way, to become right with god(s) of his own free will and determination. In other words, all satanic religions have a “synergistic soteriology”.

Think about it.
The Holy Spirit or "Comforter" "reproves" the World of Sin, Righteousness and judgement. (Acts 16:7-8) In other words, when He deals with our heart, He convicts us of our sin, presents us with God's righteousness(God's perfection and Jesus' work on the cross), and our impending damnation in Hell. Trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation is a totally selfish "act" because the believer's #1 priority, at the time, is escaping the judgement of Hell. It IS something that you "do" as it involves your God-given freewill, but it is NOT a "work" because it doesn't involve any physical "deed": It all takes place in the heart. How do I know? Because I believed on Him (on May 11, 1986). Could I have rejected Him? Yes. Felix did....

And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. -Acts 24:25

None of that is "works" so it is not "synergism" and none of it is "monergism" or "fatalism" because it involves the free will.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
One free willer says salvation IS synergistic, another says it’s neither synergistic or monergistic. 😆

Y’all need to get your stories straight @Shepherd @Sojourner414
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
One free willer says salvation IS synergistic, another says it’s neither synergistic or monergistic. 😆

Y’all need to get your stories straight @Shepherd @Sojourner414
Because Calvinists all believe the same thing? LOL. Your attitude would suggest they do, when in reality, they don't.

Just more of your contradictory attitude, which is in need of a major adjustment.

Are you a puppet, or do you co-operate with God's will and His plan for your life?

Your rants and diatribes against "synergism" suggest you believe yourself to be a puppet.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
The Holy Spirit or "Comforter" "reproves" the World of Sin, Righteousness and judgement. (Acts 16:7-8) In other words, when He deals with our heart, He convicts us of our sin, presents us with God's righteousness(God's perfection and Jesus' work on the cross), and our impending damnation in Hell. Trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation is a totally selfish "act" because the believer's #1 priority, at the time, is escaping the judgement of Hell. It IS something that you "do" as it involves your God-given freewill, but it is NOT a "work" because it doesn't involve any physical "deed": It all takes place in the heart. How do I know? Because I believed on Him (on May 11, 1986). Could I have rejected Him? Yes. Felix did....

And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. -Acts 24:25

None of that is "works" so it is not "synergism" and none of it is "monergism" or "fatalism" because it involves the free will.
They don't believe in "Free Will," and why when the call for others to join the Cause, by the one you've quoted, if you read carefully, it was Addressed to, ALL PUPPETS with No Free Will, come join the Battle.

Hmm, how can someone, with No Free Will, join the Cause?
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
248
82
28
Another example of God giving men free will. And notice that he WANTS them to "choose life". So if they do NOT "choose life" then wouldn't that be "thwarting His will" ?(according to calvinists encountered)

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
I LOVE This ^ but, it still lacks the Hebrew!

וּבִקַּשְׁתֶּ֥ם מִשָּׁ֛ם אֶת־יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ וּמָצָ֑אתָ כִּ֣י תִדְרְשֶׁ֔נּוּ בְּכׇל־לְבָבְךָ֖ וּבְכׇל־נַפְשֶֽׁךָ׃
But if you search there, you will find your God, if only you seek with all your heart and soul
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
248
82
28
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. -Acts 24:25

Again, the Holy Spirit or "Comforter" let Felix know that Jesus Christ and His work on calvary was the only way, that Felix was a lowdown wicked sinner, and that Felix was bound for Hell. Then "Felix trembled" in terror my friend. That was God the Holy Spirit speaking to his heart and he put it off for a "more convenient season". God WANTS everyone to be saved, He wants people to "choose life" but when they put it off like Felix did, they get death.