Tribulation Outtakes

Webers.Home · Jun 1, 2023

.
● Rev 1:1 . .The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his
servants-- things which must shortly take place. And he sent and signified it
by His angel etc, etc.

The Greek word translated "shortly" tells us that the events depicted in the
book of Revelation will be completed within a relatively brief space of time.

The Greek word translated "signified" basically refers to indications: in this
case, I'd say they can be safely understood as a series of red flags. In other
words: nobody knows the exact day nor hour of Jesus' return to rule the
world, but the events depicted in the book of Revelation will serve as early
warnings to alert folks that the time has come-- sort of like the act-by-act
synopses used by folks interested in operas like La Boh?me, Hamlet, Madam
Butterfly, Porgy and Bess, South Pacific, and Don Giovanni.

If folks stuck in the Revelation era use John's letter like that; they'll have a
pretty good idea when to expect Jesus' arrival; and begin preparing
themselves for it.

Speaking to his Jewish countrymen in Luke 21:28-36, Jesus said:

"When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads,
because your redemption is drawing near."

He told them this parable:

"Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see
for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these
things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near."

And then he said:

"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all
these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my
words will never pass away."

"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation,
drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you
unexpectedly like a trap. For it will come upon all those who live on the face
of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able
to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand
before the Son of Man."

FAQ: "this generation" passed away long ago and yet none of those things
ever happened. Why not?

REPLY: The Greek word translated generation is somewhat ambiguous. It
can refer to a current population, and also to a nation and/or an era. For
example: there was a generation before the Flood, there's the generation
between the Flood and Christ's return, and there will be another generation
after that called the regeneration. (Matt 19:28)
_

Webers.Home · Jun 1, 2023

.
● Rev 6:5 . . And when He broke the third seal, I heard the third living
creature saying: Come! And I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who
sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand.

Scales (a.k.a. balances) were mechanical devices used in the application of
commercial weights and measures. Modern electronic scales are quite a bit
more sophisticated.

The black horse in this case indicates hunger. (compare the pale horse's
assignment in Rev 6:8)

● Rev 6:6a . . And I heard as it were a voice in the center of the four living
creatures saying: A measure of wheat for a denarius, and three measures of
of barley for a denarius;

The Greek word translated "measure" is roughly equal to 1.09 liters or 2.3
US pints. The denarius is widely assumed to have been equivalent to a day's
pay for soldiers and/or laborers.

It's a pretty good guess that what we're looking at is hand-to-mouth
existence due to inflationary pricing caused by the simple fact that there just
won't be enough to go around; for example:

"When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your
bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat,
but you will not be satisfied." (Lev 26:26)

● Rev 6:6b . . do not damage the oil and the wine!

Oil made from olives was common in just about everybody's kitchen and
served as a shortening. (cf. 1Kngs 17:8-12) Wine was a common first aid
treatment, likely due to its alcohol content (e.g. Luke 10:34) and also useful
as a sedative (Prov 31:6-7)

NOTE: The oil used in Luke 10:34 was likely an essential oil rather olive, e.g.
Myrrh, Clove, and/or Frankincense.
_

Artios1 · Jun 1, 2023

Thankfully we don't have to go through any of that.

Cameron143 · Jun 1, 2023

Webers.Home said:

.
● Rev 1:1 . .The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his
servants-- things which must shortly take place. And he sent and signified it
by His angel etc, etc.

The Greek word translated "shortly" tells us that the events depicted in the
book of Revelation will be completed within a relatively brief space of time.

The Greek word translated "signified" basically refers to indications: in this
case, I'd say they can be safely understood as a series of red flags. In other
words: nobody knows the exact day nor hour of Jesus' return to rule the
world, but the events depicted in the book of Revelation will serve as early
warnings to alert folks that the time has come-- sort of like the act-by-act
synopses used by folks interested in operas like La Boh?me, Hamlet, Madam
Butterfly, Porgy and Bess, South Pacific, and Don Giovanni.

If folks stuck in the Revelation era use John's letter like that; they'll have a
pretty good idea when to expect Jesus' arrival; and begin preparing
themselves for it.

Speaking to his Jewish countrymen in Luke 21:28-36, Jesus said:

"When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads,
because your redemption is drawing near."

He told them this parable:

"Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see
for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these
things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near."

And then he said:

"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all
these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my
words will never pass away."

"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation,
drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you
unexpectedly like a trap. For it will come upon all those who live on the face
of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able
to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand
before the Son of Man."

FAQ: "this generation" passed away long ago and yet none of those things
ever happened. Why not?

REPLY: The Greek word translated generation is somewhat ambiguous. It
can refer to a current population, and also to a nation and/or an era. For
example: there was a generation before the Flood, there's the generation
between the Flood and Christ's return, and there will be another generation
after that called the regeneration. (Matt 19:28)
_

How does the phrase...the time is at hand...1:3...affect the time frame of the fulfillment of Revelation in your understanding?

Webers.Home · Jun 2, 2023

.
● Rev 6:7-8 . .When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of
the fourth living creature say: Come!

. . . I looked, and there before me was a pale horse. Its rider was named
Death, and hades was following close behind him. They were given power
over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the
wild beasts of the earth.

The lethal sources listed are common throughout the world today; but
never have they harvested so many souls as they will in the future. For
example:

The current global population is roughly 7,964,189,000 i.e. 7.96 billion. By
the time Mr. Death finishes his work, something like 1.99 billion of those
people would be rubbed out by war, hunger, disease, and the animal
kingdom; which consists of a fair number of poisonous species along with
toxic critters like vampire bats and mosquitoes.

* In perspective: 1.99 billion people adds up to nearly 6x the USA's current
population.

We don't usually notice someone's passing unless they're famous or one of
our friends, associates, and relatives. Well; when Mr. Death goes to work,
the dead will be all around and impossible to overlook. I rather suspect
funeral homes will be overwhelmed; if open for business at all.

And ER? Well, it's Mr. Death's intention that people die rather than survive,
so I should think that any and all medical attention the hospitals are able to
provide will be quite ineffective, viz: they'll likely serve as morgues instead
of treatment centers.
_

Webers.Home · Jun 3, 2023

.
● Rev 6:12 . . I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great
earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the
whole moon turned blood red

Astronomically, that depicts a solar eclipse and a lunar eclipse
simultaneously; which nature by itself cannot produce due to specific
alignment requirements.

● Rev 6:13 . . and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a
fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

Those will likely be shooting stars (a.k.a. meteors) and possibly asteroids
too, rather than solar bodies like Polaris, Sirius, Betelgeuse, and/or Rigel
which would cause impacts that the Earth simply cannot accommodate due
to its Lilliputian size compared to the mass of those kinds of celestial
objects. Many of the stars seen in the sky are quite a bit larger than the
Sun; whose diameter is 109x and its volume 1,300,000x the Earth's.

● Rev 6:14a . .The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up

Whether that pertains to the entire cosmos or limited to the Earth's
atmosphere is uncertain, although it does seem a preview of Rev 20:11.

● Rev 6:14b . . and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

No doubt previous centuries of theologians were curious about that
prediction, but thanks to the relatively new science of plate tectonics, we
now know that the movement of mountains and islands has been occurring
all along; just not as noticeable as the shuffle depicted by Rev 16:14b.

Anyway, those events will quite naturally cause a world-wide panic.

● Rev 6:15-17 . . .Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the
rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and
among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the
rocks: Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne
and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come,
and who can stand?
_

Webers.Home · Jun 4, 2023

.
● Rev 8:7 . .The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and
fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the
earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green
grass was burned up.

There's quite a bit of destruction depicted in that verse; and I suspect it's all
aimed at agriculture.

First a portion of the soil's organic material is destroyed which will greatly
impact its fertility.

Next a portion of the trees are destroyed so that foods derived from trees--
e.g. nuts, and fruits --will become in short supply.

And finally all the green grass; which is translated from words that suggest
crops will be just starting to mature and produce grain, e.g. corn, beans,
wheat, spelt, barley, oats, and rice; et al.

* Rice is a staple food for over ½ of the world's human population,
particularly in Asia and Africa.

NOTE: Although crops will be burned, they'll bounce back. (Rev 9:1-4)

Anyway, when the availability of food stuffs is limited; demand exceeds
supply; and with that prices go up.
_

Webers.Home · Jun 8, 2023

.
● Rev 13:4 . . And they worshipped the Dragon which gave power unto the
Beast: and they worshipped the Beast, saying: Who is like unto the Beast?
Who is able to make war with him?

* The Dragon is identified at Rev 12:9 as the Serpent, the Devil, and Satan;
so there can be no doubt who this creature really is. (cf. Rev 20:2)

It's quite possible that the people of that day will honestly believe the Beast
is empowered by a divine being; and unaware they are actually giving glory
to a demonic being instead. For example:

● 2Thess 2:9-12 . . .This evil man will come to do the work of Satan with
counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of wicked
deception to fool those who are on their way to destruction because they
refuse to believe the truth that would save them. So God will send great
deception upon them, and they will believe all these lies.

Worship of the Beast will be universal, mandatory, and strictly enforced
regardless of age, race, gender, and/or ethnic identity-- a one-world mega
religion that blows all others out of the water, e.g. Islam, Mormonism,
Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Baha'i, Buddhism, etc.
_

Blade · Jun 8, 2023

"Worship of the Beast will be universal, mandatory, and strictly enforced
regardless of "

But before all this what is written? No believer who's name was written in the Lambs book before the foundation of the world will worship the beast. I will stop there..

Well it seems its just another.. quote a bunch of scriptures and then gives his own personal understanding.. Thanks.

p_rehbein · Jun 8, 2023

The tribulations? Uh, well, that is today

Webers.Home · Jun 9, 2023

.
● Rev 13:5a . . And there was given unto the Beast a mouth speaking great
things

That's pretty much describes the rhetoric of most every politician, viz:
promises of a better world under the auspices of their own administrative
practices.

● Rev 13:5b . . and blasphemies

In this scenario, the Beast is God's political opponent, no doubt scoffing at
the notion of Christ's return to rule the world.

Well political opponents in today's world make it their mission in life to
destroy the other guy's reputation and call into question his motives. I
suspect the Beast's tactics will be no different because it's to his advantage
to emphasize the old God's perceived faults and failures and show how
himself as the new God can do a much better job managing the world's
affairs.

"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is
worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to
be God." (2Thess 2:3-4)

NOTE: I would imagine that a first order of business for the Beast will be to
come up with a plausible explanation for the world-wide extraction described
by 1Thess 4:13-18 wherein nigh unto 2,000 years of deceased Christians will
appear out of thin air all over the globe and join those alive to go up and
rendezvous with Christ in the clouds.
_

Webers.Home · Jun 10, 2023

.
● Rev 13:5c . . and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Prophetic months aren't the same as calendar months. Prophetic months are thirty days
each; so that forty-two such months add up to 1,260 days, i.e. 3½ prophetic years, e.g.
Rev 11:2 & Rev 12:6

Prophetic months are sort of like a baker's dozen. Though a baker's dozen isn't a dozen
of twelve; it's nonetheless a dozen in its own right: the same with mean solar time vs
sidereal time, and true north vs magnetic north.

* Scripture introduces prophetic months in Genesis relative to the Flood where a period
of five months adds up to exactly 150 days.
_

Webers.Home · Jun 12, 2023

.
● Rev 13:7-8 . . And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and
to overcome them; and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues,
and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose
names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the
foundation of the world.

Because we're talking about all kindreds, and tongues, and nations; then I
think we may safely assume that the "saints" in this case are possibly
anyone and everybody that can be counted as loyal to God; both Jew and
Gentile. This may or may not refer to armed conflict but for sure it's related
to oppression; and it's going to be very effective if we reckon these saints to
be the innumerable crowd depicted at Rev 7:9-17.

The Beast's management practices are extreme, but not all that unusual.
Take for example modern communist China. It's very dangerous to be
openly religious in that country, and/or hold values that differ with the
regime's, where they harvest the organs of Falun Gong adherents without
their consent. The situation in North Korea is little better where God is
second place to Kim Jong-Un.

* The Lamb slain "from the foundation of the world" reveals that Jesus
wasn't a stand-by paramedic sent to an unexpected train wreck, rather; he
was designated, and scheduled, to die on a cross for the sins of the world
prior to God creating even a single atom for the current cosmos. (cf. 1Pet
1:18-21)
_

Webers.Home · Jun 13, 2023

.
● Rev 13:9 . . He who has an ear, let him hear.

This particular ear refers to paying serious attention rather than merely
auditory perception. For example:

● Deut 29:2-5 . . Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them:

. . .Your eyes have seen all that The Lord did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his
officials and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials,
those miraculous signs and great wonders. But to this day The Lord has not
given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.

In other words: Moses' people were attentive to God's providence; and at
times even took it for granted, but were indifferent to His counseling--
oftentimes His words went in one ear and right out the other, so to speak.
Samuel was just the opposite.

● 1Sam 3:20 . . And Samuel grew, and The Lord was with him, and did let
none of His words fall to the ground.

During the awful circumstances depicted and described in the book of
Revelation, quite a few folks are going to wake up and begin looking to the
Bible for answers. I'm guessing it will be difficult, and dangerous, trying to
locate copies as I suspect the Beast will initiate something similar to Mao
Zedong's cultural revolution and/or Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 to
eradicate competing ideologies.

Nevertheless; just as certain agencies at the Federal level have failed to
totally suppress so-called misinformation relative to the Covid thingy, so the
Beast will fail to prevent every last ear from hearing.
_

Webers.Home · Jun 14, 2023

.
● Rev 13:9-10 . . If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if
anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the
perseverance and the faith of the saints.

I think that just might be a reiteration of the perseverance and the faith of
Job; where it's said:

"In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing." (Job 1:22)

"Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him" (Job 13:15

That of the prophet Habakkuk:

"Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines;.
the labor of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock
shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: Yet I
will rejoice in The Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation." (Hab 3:17-18)

And that of the apostle Paul:

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or
persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: For
your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be
slaughtered." (Rom 8:35-36)

It's generally agreed among conservative Christians that no saved person
will enter the Tribulation; but there will be a large number of lost souls
saved out of it; though at great cost to their welfare. They mustn't allow
their misfortunes during that era to persuade them that they've bought into
a fraud.

* Believers are not a protected species; nor are they insulated from the
slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

When there's a pandemic, they get sick the same as everybody else. When
there's war, they get caught up in it. When there are economic catastrophes
like the Great Depression and the housing bubble of 2008, they lose their
jobs and sometimes their nest eggs. When there are shortages of goods and
services, they have to make do with what there is the same as everybody
else. When the weather becomes disagreeable with tornadoes, hurricanes,
and flooding, they lose their homes right along with non believers. Wild fires
in California burn the homes of believers the same as everybody else's
homes. Believers get cancer, they get in car wrecks, they get taken by
crime, nature drops tree limbs on them, and the postman delivers their mail
to the wrong address, etc. etc. etc.

"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this
world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."
(John 16:33)

When peace like a river attendeth my way,
When sorrows like sea billows roll;
Whatever my lot, thou has taught me to say:
It is well, it is well, with my soul.
(Horatio P. Spafford, 1828-1888)
_

Webers.Home · Jun 15, 2023

.
● Rev 13:11 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had
two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.

This particular beast will be, from all appearances, a seemingly harmless
individual, viz: he won't have the look of a menace.

For example; German SS officer Heinrich Luitpold Himmler had the look of a
classic Mr. Milquetoast; but underneath that facade was an unbelievable
capacity for cruelty, subterfuge, and murder on a grand scale. In other
words: you couldn't tell at first glance that Himmler was a monster in whose
opinion human lives are inconvenient.
_

Webers.Home · Jun 16, 2023

.
● Rev 13:11-17 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth . . . and he
performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to
earth in full view of men . . . he deceived the inhabitants of the earth and ordered them
to set up an image in honor of the beast . . . He was given power to give breath to the
image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the
image to be executed.

The dimensions of the image aren't given but I should think it will be large enough to be
imposing.

For example: side by side statues of former North Korean leaders Kim IL Sung and Kim
Jong-IL, located on Mansu Hill in Pyongyang, are 22 meters (72+ feet) tall. If one of
those statues ever came to life, it would make quite an impression because something
that big would be very difficult to fake for even a top-notch magician like David
Copperfield.

* The Greek word translated "beast" refers to dangerous animals as opposed to
peaceful critters like goats, sheep, prairie dogs, and squeaky little gerbils.
_

Webers.Home · Jun 17, 2023

.
● Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having
the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to
every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud
voice: Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is
come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the
fountains of waters.

The everlasting gospel is a bounce from the very first chapter of Genesis;
and reiterated at Ps 19:1-4 and Rom 1:19-20. It's very elementary; pretty
much all it says is:

1) There's a supreme being.

2) People should not take Him lightly.

3) He deserves to be revered, honored, and respected.

4) There's a reckoning looming on the horizon.

5) The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the result of
intelligent design.
_

Webers.Home · Jun 18, 2023

.
● Rev 14:9-12 . . A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: If
anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the
forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which
has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.

. . . He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy
angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and
ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his
image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.

The holy city depicted at Rev 21:9-27 will never experience nightfall nor
darkness. On the basis of that, some have proposed that Rev 14:9-12 is
entirely symbolic because it says that the folks assigned to the burning
sulfur will be given no rest day or night in a place where supposedly there
will be no night.

However "in the presence of" doesn't necessarily mean the site of the
burning sulfur is located inside the city's walls, mostly because Rev 21:27
says: "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is
shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's
book of life." And also Rev 22:14-15 which says: "Blessed are those who
wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go
through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice
magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone
who loves and practices falsehood."

Though there will be neither day nor night inside the city that doesn't
preclude the possibility that there will be day and night outside. At any rate; I
think we have to expect there will be no breaks in the torment but that it will
be perpetual 24/7/365 with neither intermission, nor interruption, nor time
off for good behavior. That will be an awful scene; quite possibly a rather
ghastly tourist attraction. (Isa 66:23-24)

● Rev 14:12 . .This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who
obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

People will find themselves caught in a sort of Catch 22, so to speak. If they
follow the Beast, they'll be safe from execution but end up in the sulfur. If
they follow God and His son Jesus, they'll be safe from the sulfur but end up
executed.

● Rev 14:13 . . .Then I heard a voice from heaven say: "Write: Blessed are
the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they will rest
from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

One of the deeds sure to follow those folks is their decision to remain true to
God and His son Jesus instead of following the Beast. (cf. Matt 10:22)
_

Webers.Home · Jun 19, 2023

.
● Rev 16:3 . .The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned
into blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died.

Fresh blood is tolerable as far as odor goes, whereas the blood of a dead
man is in a state of putrefaction; and then adding to that the carcasses and
the stench of dead fish, and everything else, will make for quite a chowder
to behold.

The Mediterranean is notable in the Bible; but whether that's the sea spoken
of here is uncertain. However, in Gen 1:10 "sea" pertains to the entirety of
Earth's oceans.

A rather curious sea is located at 1Kings 7:23-26 which suggests that any
accumulation of water, whether in an ocean or on land, can be called a sea,
e.g. ponds and lakes.

● Rev 16:4 . .The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs
of water, and they became blood.

The two passages tell of water pollution on a scale quite a bit more severe
than that of Egypt because this is global rather than limited to one specific
country. Even so; Egypt's was pretty bad because there was no clean water
anywhere for either cooking, drinking, laundry, hygiene, or sanitation. (Ex
7:19-20)
_

Tribulation Outtakes

Well-known member

Well-known member

Born again to serve

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member