Does Romans 6:3-4 teach water baptism?

"It would be incorrect to ascribe the baptism of Romans 6:3-4 to the water baptism of
John the Baptist, Jesus, or Peter at Pentecost. You will search in vain to find any mention
of water even in the entire book of Romans! Furthermore, the verse clearly says that we
are baptized into Christ, not the river Jordan, or into any other water. There is a significant
difference between being baptized into water and being baptized into Christ
( See ‘What is Baptism’ for a definition ).

Strangely, many continue to use Romans 6:3-4 to justify water baptism in this
dispensation. They are quick to point out the symbolism of going under water
to a burial, and coming up out of the water to resurrection. Yet, Paul never makes
that symbolic connection having never mentioned water baptism, and so the verse
must be forced to say what it never has.

John’s Water Baptism and the Cross

When John the Baptist came baptizing, scripture clearly states the method and function
of his baptism.


It is clear that John is the baptizer. It is also clear that the function of his baptism was
‘for the remission of sins’. Lastly, it is clear that John baptized with water, specifically,
‘in the river Jordan’.

What must be pointed out is that while John the Baptist came preaching repentance
and baptism for the remission of sins, he never preaches the cross of Christ, his death,
or resurrection. In fact, even Jesus’ disciples who were most likely baptized by John with
water and themselves performed water baptisms were ignorant of the cross and
resurrection years after their own baptisms!


The only thing that is certain is that water baptism was preached of repentance
for the remission of sins.

Water baptism could hardly have been performed as a symbol of the death and
resurrection of Christ, if the death and resurrection was not understood by those
who were baptized or by the very baptizers.

Peter’s Water Baptism and the Cross

In Matthew 28:19-20 we see the resurrected Lord Jesus commanding the disciples to
‘Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and
of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever
I have commanded you’.

In response Peter at Pentecost offered the crucifixion of Jesus as a testimony to the
wickedness of rebellious Israel’s need for repentance. The Jews then present ‘were
pricked in their heart’ (Acts 2:36-37).

Peter’s response was that they should ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the
name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.’ This message of repentance and baptism
for the remission of sins was the same that John the Baptist taught. The fact that this
baptism was into water is evident from Acts 8:36 and Acts 10:47.

Yet, it is instructive to see that Peter was not preaching the death and resurrection of
Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, but water baptism for the remission of sins, just
as John the Baptist.

Paul’s Water Baptism and the Cross

It is not uncommon for adherents to John’s water baptism to point to the water
baptizing done by Paul in Acts 18:8 and 1 Cor 1:14. However, notice what Paul says
about his water baptizing and the cross.


Paul was not sent to baptize. Yet we read earlier in Matthew 28 :19 that the Lord Jesus
sent all his disciples to water baptize. Furthermore, Paul separates the gospel from
water baptism saying ‘but to preach the gospel’.

If the gospel preached of John the Baptist and Peter at Pentecost included baptism
for the remission of sins, then how could Paul exclude baptism from his gospel
presentation?

The answer lies in the revelation given to Paul after Pentecost where Christ sent Paul
with a separate commission.


Jesus appeared many times to Paul with further instructions for this current dispensation
(Acts 26:16, Eph 3:1-2). One of which was that he should cease water baptizing for it would
make the cross of Christ of none effect to those who were water baptized. The implication
is that since Christ did all of the work necessary for our salvation on the cross, some believers who were holding their water baptism in higher regard than their trust in
the cross of the Savior.

Paul then makes a clear separation between water baptism and the cross of Christ,
water baptism and the gospel.

Romans 6:3-4 not a symbol

The absence of the gospel of the cross in John’s water baptism, and Peter’s water baptism,
as well as the separation of water baptism from the gospel of Christ and the cross by Paul
is ample evidence that water baptism was not intended to be a symbol of the gospel.

Instead, Paul means exactly what he writes in Romans 6:3-4 that we are baptized into
the personage of Christ and as a result are crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20). This Baptism
into Christ is performed by the Spirit.


This baptism done by the ‘operation of God’ (Col 2:12) into Christ himself places us in
position to be not only take part in his death but also his resurrection, which is the
exact teaching of Romans 6:3-4.


Notice the baptism leads to death, which is a far cry from the function of water baptism.
The only baptism that can lead to death is the baptism into Christ by the Spirit by which
we are crucified with Christ.


The baptism of Romans 6:3-4 is our baptism by the Spirit into Christ not the baptism by
John or Peter into water."

(J Johnson)

Amen.



Examples:

Rightly Divided (+ I and II)

Why bring up John the Baptist as a red herring when that has nothing to do with Christian baptism? Also the baptism commanded by Jesus was no different than the baptism commanded by Peter for the household of Cornelius.

Then you falsely claim that Romans 6 has nothing to do with water baptism. But all one has to do is meditate upon these two verses -- Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection -- to see that you trying to dodge the plain meaning of Scripture.

How does water baptism symbolize death? When a person is baptized they are IMMERSED UNDER WATER! That is a symbolic burial. Then they are raised up out of the water. So Romans 6 has everything to do with Christian baptism. Indeed that passage presents the spiritual significance of baptism!

You have been promoting the false doctrine of the Hyper-Calvinists that Christian baptism is no longer valid, no longer necessary, and not a commandment to the new believer. That is COMPLETELY FALSE and also heretical. It is just as bad as claiming supernatural power for the water of baptism.

John’s baptism was immersion in water, for remission of sins, preparing people for Christ
Jn3:23; Luke3:3,4

Jesus made more disciples than John, by baptizing them in the same way Jn 4:1-4

Jesus commanded baptism for all nations to make disciples Mt28:19-20
He said faith and baptism come before salvation Mk16:16

What then did His apostles teach?
Believers are to repent and be baptised for remission of sins, in Jesus Christs’ name Acts 2:38
Baptism commanded in Jesus Christs’ name is in water Acts 10:48,47
and applies to Gentiles, not just Jews

and Peters inspired command to believe & be baptized are the words whereby Cornelius and his household were saved Acts11:14


Saul of Tarsus was told what he must do, which includes baptism to wash away sins calling on His name
Acts22:10,16

Peter makes it clear, it is not inherent power in the water, but an appeal to Gods authority (i.e. faith) whereby we ask for pardon and find salvation 1Pet3:21

Ephesians 4:5 says there is one baptism. While many are mentioned in the NT, there is clearly only one. Which?
Paul doesn’t leave us guessing.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Christs’ sacrifice v25 makes possible the sanctification and cleansing v26 which is applied “with the washing of water by the word”. This creates the “glorious church” that is spotless and holy unto Him.

The *only* NT command that involves faith (the word) and *water* is water baptism into Jesus Christ for remission of sins.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

When are we buried & raised with Christ? In baptism through faith in God’s work v12
This is when we change from being dead in sin to being forgiven v.13

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6, same points are made. “Buried” with Christ & into His death (where Christs’ saving blood was shed) and raised with Him to “walk in newness of life” (salvation).

Paul elaborates:
Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Paul told us what is the one baptism that by faith in Gods work saves.

It is the same one Jesus taught Mark 16:16
The same one Peter taught Acts 2:38; 10:47-48; 11:14
The same one Ananias taught Acts 22:16

And this doesn’t exhaust the passages that teach this. There are many more…

He that has ears to hear, let him hear.

GRACE_ambassador, I honestly don't know what you're talking about. How people around here can take something so simple as this passage and turn it into a pretzel is simply staggering.

Ephesians 4:5-6

Amen

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

An example

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.

And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-39‬ ‭

Another example of the one baptism and a group of gentiles

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Receiving the Holy Spirit doesn’t replace baptism they receive the Holy Spirit and then Peter commands baptism in water for remission on Jesus name

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We partake of the baptism of Christ and therefore partake in his death burial and redirection according to Gods word of faith

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7‬ ‭

because we die through baptism it means we’re released from the law which ends at a persons death

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man ( only ) as long as he liveth?

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; (through baptism Paul just explained )

that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just the one baptism but it has a lot of meaning

Romans 6:4 is a verse that can be taken either way on its own. But when compared with like scripture it becomes about baptism by immersion in water.

The into Christ.. can mean 'in reference to His death and resurrection '

And.. when a person becomes a member of a church .. they are water baptised as part of that and that is 'into Christ's church body'

Compare this scripture with like for like.. it's not on its own.

His group of Hyper- Dispensationalists teach that Christian baptism is NOT Christian baptism but Jewish baptism. Therefore you can simply disobey that commandment of Christ.

E. W. Bullinger was the one who started teaching this nonsense (along with other nonsense) even though he was a very smart guy. His teachings are called Ultra-Dispensdationalism or Hyper- Dispensationalism or Bullingerism, which rejects the Bible truth that the Church began at Pentecost. That is pure heresy.

"Bullingerism, now more commonly known by its children—Acts 9 Dispensationalism, Acts 13 Dispensationalism, Acts 28 Dispensationalism, The Grace Movement, Hyper-Dispensationalism, Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, Ultra-dispensationalism, etc., was introduced toward the end of the 19th century by E.W. Bullinger (1837-1913), a respected Anglican scholar. After his death, his ideas were further developed and popularized in various forms by Sir Robert Anderson, Charles Welch, C. F. Baker, Cornelius Stam, and many others. This old article has been reprinted because it provides a basic concise response to the confusion, without addressing the variations within Bullingerism’s offspring."
https://bibletruthpublishers.com/bu...ble-brochure-9-point-type/a-h-stewart/pd41766

Well I would argue that the small c church started with JC and His disciples. Nothing heretical about that. Not sure when graceambassador has it starting.

Pentecost is a church , small c.. ..empowered .. not started.

Let's set aside the position of graceambassador and the Hyper-Dispensationalists for the moment. As you can see in post #9, there are some of them seeing the Church starting in Acts 9, others in Acts 13 or 18, others in Acts 28 (see point #4 below).

1. You will not find any indication that the Church (capital C) was already in existence when Christ and His disciples were present together before His crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension. That is because the Law of Moses was still in effect until the crucifixion. However Christ ANTICIPATED the formation of the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body in Christ) when He spoke about the church in Matthew 18:15-20. That passage is speaking about a future time when believers will be gathering in the name of Christ.

2. It was absolutely necessary for God to pour out the Holy Spirit "upon all flesh" to fulfil the promise of the Father before the Church could come into existence. Only then would the gift of the Holy Spirit be given to every believer. And that could only happen after the ascension of Christ followed by the day of Pentecost.

3. So it is only in Acts 2:47 that "the church" is first mentioned in Scripture as an actual entity. Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. In this verse it is the church at Jerusalem. But in Acts 10, we see the Gentiles receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and that is when both Jews and Gentiles were placed within the Church. And in both instances believers were baptized immediately. But as Paul said later, the Church was a "mystery" hidden from the OT prophets and only revealed to him. And he had a lot to say about the Church.

4. Now here is what graceambassador and his hyper dispensationalists teach (and I am quoting this from another source), which is the rejection of Christian baptism:
What Hyper-Dispensationalists Teach
I. There is a period of time called "THE GRACE OF GOD," which began in Acts 9 (Stam, Baker, Moore, Watkins) or in Acts 13 (O'Hare and others) or in Acts28 (Bullinger, Ballanger, Greaterex).
II. Water Baptism is not for "THIS AGE,' since "THIS AGE" began in Acts 9 or Acts 13 or Acts 18 or Acts 28.
III. Bible-believing Baptists are heretics who do not follow "PAULINE" teaching (1 Tim. 1:16).
IV. Since Paul did not COMMAND anyone to be baptized, it is UNSCRIPTURAL.
V. Since Paul was not "SENT TO BAPTIZE," water baptism is PREPAULINE (1 Cor. 1).
VI. The "ONE BAPTISM" of Ephesians 4 automatically cancels water baptism (Moore, Stam, Sharpe, Baker).

Spiritual Baptism is the reality and the event.
Water Baptism is the show, declaration and testimony of what previously happened to you.
Also, it is done unto obedience to the Lord and too show all that you are dead, buried and resurrected with Christ.

Water baptism is the first act of obedience a new believer should do. It is for a sign to both the Church and the world that one has become a believer in and follower of Jesus. The "One Baptism" is the spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit which can not be seen by man. Because of this, water baptism is to reveal the "repenting" of a person and their acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Water baptism is necessary because Jesus said to, but it is NOT unto salvation. The precious blood of Jesus is the only "water" that can baptize one unto salvation, and that is applied through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Its water baptism yup, plain as day. Of course its baptism into Christ. When would it ever be baptism into the Jordan river LOL.
The stuff hyper-dispies invent man.

Well, JC and His disciples did all the work of church. They were given the authority to baptise, they had Jesus as the Head, they had the Lord's Supper.

They assembled regularly as a church. They studied together scriptures. They had different roles in this first church.. with Judas as a treasurer (even though he turned out to be an imposter).

All redeemed.. the Family of God..started with Adam and Eve and has been added to ever since.

The small c church--The local ecclessia.. an assembly of saved baptised believers, covenanted to carry out the great commission and command, started with JC and His disciples and further churches were planted through them.

yes also we need to read it not one verse at a time but realizing it’s a letter that was written so it’s saying something in its own context

What I mean is if we take a single scripture out of what’s being said and then say “ what does this one scriptire mean what’s it really saying ? We have removed it from the explaination it’s a part of to understand it read it as if Paul is explaining what baptism means because those at rome some has a lot of questions “ why did we all get baptized in Jesus name ? How does that relate to remission of sins ? Why is baptism something we do Paul ? “

aid it okay for us to sin ?

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? ( that’s a cool phrase but what’s he talking about ?)


Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:1-7, 10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul is talking about how baptism into Jesus death gives a person power to stop serving sin

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember he’s talking about the relationship of baptism tonthe believer who was baptized

he does this in other places also the point is Paul’s letters are the explaination of all these things he was t creating a different baptism he was teaching the people at rome why they all got baptized and what it means now it’s an empowerment to overcome sin

he continues on with the significance and meaning of it by faith


“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; ( remember we are baptized into his death on the cross ) that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In the law when a sinner is executed that’s the end of their punishment when they die the laws authority over them ends it’s fulfilled when the sinner dies

baptism also is about being born again into Abraham’s family

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-27, 29‬ ‭

Paul is giving meaning to why we get baptized

so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

also

“buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s alot about it once we accept that there’s just baptism the same baptism they all did and we’re baptized with , the. We can start learning what it means to be baptized from the apostles like Paul and Peter

people need to look at the non english word (baptize) and use its defined meaning taken from the actual word (baptizo) which means to immerse, to plunge, to place into, it can be used as in Peter where it says they were baptized into moses in thec loud and the sea. a placing into or uniting together. If we use this, romans 6 is opened up and makes sense. instead

lets look at romans 6 if we actually interpreted the word and not transliterated it..

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were Placed into into Christ Jesus were Placed into into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through being placed into his into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been [b]freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, [c]reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Notice how verse 5 flows with the correct translation of the word in verses 3 and 4. and how trying to add water. where no water is mentioned or even insinuated just confuses the passage and makes it nonsensical.

Just because water is not mentioned does not mean that it is absent. So ask yourself "What does LIKENESS mean?" and then connect it to the rest of the passage. "Likeness" means resemblance, so how does water baptism resemble death? When a person is IMMERSED under water, it is a resemblance to being buried under the surface of the earth. It symbolizes death to the old life.

And then we have "raised to walk in newness of life". So where does the "raising" occur other than when the believer is raised up out of the water? Therefore claiming that water is not mentioned is simply a dodge. Everything in Scripture does not have to be a textbook answer, and God expects you and I and every Christian to connect the dots.

That whole chapter of Romans 6 is about how water baptism is an incentive and a reason to put the old sinful life behind and walk righteously with Christ. And unless you understand the POWER of water baptism in the life of the new believer, you will not understand why Christ commanded that believers be baptized after conversion. Indeed He linked saving faith and baptism together in Mark 16:16: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (see Matthew 28 also).

romans 6 has nothing to do with water baptism

It has everything to do with the HS baptizing us into Christ.

once again, we need to look at the defenition of the greek word. Not the english word. to find what is being said..

So, you teach there are two baptism?
Eph 4:5 says there is one
Eph5:26 says that it is water by faith in the word