Is faith WITHOUT works dead to GOD or Is faith WITHOUT works dead to man?

The thief on the cross did no physical works so then was his faith without doing any works dead to GOD?

No works don't prove your justification or salvation, that is a whole other subject. Works prove your faith. So again, in the example of King Saul, when he disobeyed God by refusing to utterly destroy the Amalekites, but rather took a spoil of them, this constitutes a wicked work that proves he does not really have faith in God because he did not obey the commandment of God. Saul even attempts another wicked work, that is, he tries to do sacrifice of the spoils that he took to prove he has faith in God, yet God is not fooled by this, nor is Samuel, who says "what then is the bleating of these sheep in my ears?" So Saul's works proved that he has no real faith to both God and Samuel as he will prove over and over from that point forward through his wicked works.

Can a person have good works and not have genuine faith? Seems like the Pharisees were
doing this. Can a man tell by a persons good works that that person Is saved? Would a
persons good works without faith be counted righteous by GOD who looks at the heart?

This passage should clarify everything: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8,9)

So every Christian is foreordained to do good works as a part of his or her Christian walk. That is the result of genuine saving faith.

I thought you were saying that works are necessary for salvation,?my bad.🙂

The Bible is telling us how God sees things and we’re supposed to hear and learn from what he’s saying so we know and come to know his thoughts about things

faith is something he teaches man about if we have a different idea about faith from God we then need tomlewrn from him about it so we can be corrected in our error

a what I’m saying is faith is just faith the New Testament teaches us what it is and what it’s like one of the lessons about faith in the New Testament is what you quoted

The idea is for Jesus disciples to learn what he said about things like faith and agree with him knowing he’s correct and we that disagrees are wrong teacher and students is Jesus and his disciples


The truth is written and we’re meant to learn it faith without works is dead being alone this is just the truth it’s true to God and he told man the truth about it it’s a matter of who will accept it learn of it and believe moving forward letting it do this

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Bible is teaching us the truth about faith when it says “ don’t just say it actually live as if you believe it act in it “

the problem is some don’t want to hear that they want faith tonjist be something you say and don’t have to do anything the Bible says things like that to change our thinking about that so we start to think in line with Gods word “ yes I agree faith isnt just a word I say , it’s shown by my actions “

If one reads Romans 2:5-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:22-28; 4:4-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

For believers, their works will be judged to determine rewards and loss of rewards. (1Corinthians 3:11-15)

The thief on the cross voiced aloud that Jesus had done no wrong but he, himself, was guilty of sin. Demonstrating publicly the one believes is works. I forgive the thief also because of his words of belief in Jesus.
(Bye declaring Jesus Yeshua was not guilty of wrong doing was declaring Jesus true to all He had taught throughout JUdea).

Can a person have good works and not have genuine faith?Seems like the Pharisees were doing this.Can a man tell by a persons good works that that person Is saved? Would a persons good works without faith be counted righteous by GOD who looks at the heart?

Do you believe that If a person believes In JESUS that that believing IS the same as works?

Ephesians 2:10

Taken away, or simply not given? .

Certainly. People can have good works without saving faith. But if they are counting on their works to gain entry into Heaven, they will be sorely disappointed. Every religion -- other than Bible Christianity -- teaches its adherents to expect salvation through good works. But unless the penalty for sins is paid, there is no salvation. And that is why God sent Christ to pay the penalty for the sins of the world.

However those who have been justified by grace through faith are to "maintain" good works.
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men... And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful. (Titus 3:8,14)

Was not Abraham, our forefather, credited with righteousness because he belieed God? It was also considered a work. So it is with all who believe Jesus Yeshua, Who is called Father eternal, Ruler of Peace, Comforter, Counselor God Almighty. Yes It is works, and it will lead anyone who truly believes to more than just lilp service.

Can a person have good works and not have genuine faith?Seems like the Pharisees were doing this.Can a man tell by a persons good works that that person Is saved? Would a persons good works without faith be counted righteous by GOD who looks at the heart?

I don't fully understand the question. Faith without works is certainly dead. It a person's faith, which I take to mean it is not actually faith. Which answer covers that?[/QUOTE

I meant to say,If you didn't participate In the poll at the top of this page ,how would anyone understand what you mean when you quote that scripture