Three Questions for Calvinists

Of course the answers are "yes".
My point in posting this was: Here it clearly tells us that God calls people to Him, wants them to come to Him and they willfully put Him off and reject Him. Calvinist doctrine, on the other hand, teaches that God never even wanted these people to come to Him so He never "unconditionally elected" them or imparted His "irresistable grace" to them.

Exactly. God's plan is that salvation is by faith, not works. And who has he chosen to call? Everyone. He says He's not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. He's God, He's all powerful, he can do whatever he wants with whoever he wants. I'm glad, that He, being all powerful and so much so that he could squash us all like ants in a split second, is so loving, so gracious, that He sent His Son to die for the sins of the whole world and for every sinner who ever lived. That's how good He is. And His plan was to do it by allowing us the freedom to choose. His Spirit deals with us about "sin, righteousness, and judgement". He displayed His righteousness on the Cross, to save us from the judgement(Hell). If we don't want to go to Hell, we must choose to repent of our sin and trust in Him in faith. Everyone has faith. It is up to us as to what we do with that faith. Faith is plainly not a work.




Read on a little further in the chapter....Romans 9
30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 1 John 5:4
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace. Luke 7:50

Like I told you, everyone has faith. The question is; what is that faith directed toward? Is your faith in an unscriptural god who is willing to save only a few he has predetermined to save or is it in the God of the Bible who shed his blood for the whole world, and is not willing that any should perish?

[Rom 9:11, 13-16, 18 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth...
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Given the context, roberg. Paul is referring to the Gentiles and the Jews.

God has chosen the Gentiles (mercy) and they have been grafted in (elect).

Context is important and if you ignore the context, you will end up with a rogue interpretation.

So, I'm confused regarding your point, or perhaps, you are misunderstanding mine. I am saying that salvation, regardless of
whether Jew, Gentile, or other, is on exactly the same basis for all - that God has chosen those whom He will save, and they will become saved. I believe that is the central point of the verses from Romans that I quoted: God saves whom He will. Was that your point, and if not, what in it did I miss because you post above, on the surface (at least), sounds the same as mine.

You are applying an interpretation to Romans.

You are talking about individual election. Paul is not talking about individual election. Paul is talking about why Israel failed to achieve the required righteousness.

Paul explains in detail why Israel was grafted out and the Gentiles were grafted in. Paul is not discussing individual election.

When Paul mentions Jacob for example. Paul is not really talking about Jacob's election. Rather, Paul is driving the point home that God is choosing specific individuals. To accomplish the task of delivering the messiah. God's promised election through that promise by faith.

It is easy to get side tracked in the scripture.

Think Jew and Gentile, and Romans is very easy to understand.

If you start thinking Esau was damned by God, then you are corrupting the text.

Israel could never be saved through legal obedience. Israel could never be saved by an act of human will.

God's way or the highway.

Luke 14
15And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.16Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Did the man actually invite those who gave the excuses?
Did those who made the excuses know that they were being invited?
So, if the man originally wanted them to come, why did they end up with no supper?

Sorry, I'm still not 100% sure that I follow your point but let me take a try at it.
I am saying that salvation is not by law but that it is only by God's grace through Christ's faith.
God used Jacob to serve as a type to illustrate those elected/saved.
Likewise, Esau served to illustrate those non-elected - those who would never become saved.
So, Jacob and Esau were used as demonstrations of both.
Salvation is only given on an individual, not on a group basis, although taken as a whole, those individuals comprise spiritual Israel -
the Israel to come.

[Rom 9:8 KJV] 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[Rom 9:21-24 KJV
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

I am relying to your interpretation of Romans 9.

If we can straighten out Romans 9 first, then we can address quotations from other letters.

Here read the first paragraph of Romans 9, so that we are on the same page.

Romans 9:1-4
I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying; my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my countrymen, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites...

Is Paul talking about individual election or the promise (the word, by faith, through Israel) in Romans 9?

God is talking about individual election but uses the first four verses to set the stage for that which will transpire further down in the chapter. Just because verses 1 - 4 are at the beginning, doesn't make them the crux of the chapter, instead, they are actually ancillary to it.
To understand the intent of Roman's 9 we need to look at verses 9:6 - 8. They establish its crux. That is, it is not that which comes through the nation of Israel as you said - even though God did manifest His word through Israel at least at the beginning - but instead, the true crux is of God's choice as to whom would become saved, which choice was manifested through election - and it was God's divine prerogative to do so as He may. In this chapter, it is represented by those who coincidentally also happen to be Jews. Nevertheless, salvation is the same for one as it is for all.
The verses that follow define the crux of the chapter. They teach that the children of the promise - that is, the promise God gave to
Abraham - was/is fulfilled in/by the true seed - but not because they are his physical descendants. Those who are of the true seed transcends and traverses across all peoples, linages, creeds and nationalities, etc - and that being the central point of the chapter. Everything else is based upon, around, preparatory to, or supportive of that.

[Rom 9:6-8 KJV]
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[Rom 9:23-24 KJV]
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Here is the refutation of what you wrote.

Romans 9:25-26
I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’ And her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’”
“And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘you are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

We were not God's people, we were the non-elect, not beloved of God, the dogs.

God chose, and elected, and loved Israel. Yet, God grafted the entire nation of Israel out of the olive tree.

Your trying to contradict the letter to the Romans.

Please note, Romans 9 has nothing to do with individual election.

Here are the last verses in Romans 9.

Romans 9:30-31
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith (the purpose); however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.

Can you see those two words again, 'Israel' and 'Gentiles'?

Not individual election.

I disagree. The crux Romans 9 is clearly about election.
I am not contradicting the Bible, nor would I ever presume to do so because I know it to be of God.
Perhaps it is that you just don't know how to interpret it.

After divorcing Israel, God made into His people those He intended to save - the elect - but they being of spiritual, not earthly, Jerusalem. It will be comprised of the elect and only the elect and become His wife. Through Christ, it is they who God made His people even though being "dogs". After divorcing earthly Israel, He did not, and He could, not take back earthly Israel again either to be His people or wife.

[Rev 21:2 KJV] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her
husband.

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Yes, I see those two words and what is your point? There is both a nation of Israel and the Gentiles, so?

What you wrote is not entirely correct.

You said, "He did not, and He could, not take back earthly Israel".

Romans 11:23
And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.

Here are some statistics, by which, you may get an insight into the context of Romans.

Word count in the letter to the Romans.

Israel 12
Gentile 6
Jew 11
Law 52

Chosen 1
Elect 1

What do you think that Paul is really discussing in Romans?

Just one question for Arminians.

How do you sleep at night knowing you share the core doctrine of synergism with all satanic religions?

Islam.
Mormons.
Jehovah witnesses.
Buddhism.
Hinduism.
Luciferians.
Roman Catholics.
Scientology.
Oneness Pentecostal.
New age.
Witchcraft.
Voodoo.
All of liberal “Christianity”.
Etc.

😬 not good company to be in.

Individually as the elect, not as the nation.



Paul is discussing the fulfillment of the promise made by God to Abraham regarding God's heirs. It, having been made as a promise directly by God, election was utilized by God to bring that promise to fruition. Otherwise, were it dependent upon man's free will to make of themselves heirs there could be no guarantee as to result, because the result would have been unknowable and undeterminable when the promise was made. Yet, since God did give it as a promise, for Him to have done so, and for it to be sure as a promise is, God, not man, had to be in control of choosing and making the heirs, heirs. That control, among other terms, is labeled election.

[Gal 3:18, 29 KJV]
18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. ...
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

BTW - there are two Israels: spiritual Israel and worldly Israel. Sometimes from the immediate context, it is not easy to distinguish
which one is in view. Spiritual Israel - the Israel to come, consists of only the elect - those who are the heirs/beneficiaries of the promise.

Just one question for Arminians.

How do you sleep at night knowing you share the core doctrine of synergism with all satanic religions?

Islam.
Mormons.
Jehovah witnesses.
Buddhism.
Hinduism.
Luciferians.
Roman Catholics.
Scientology.
Oneness Pentecostal.
New age.
Witchcraft.
Voodoo.
All of liberal “Christianity”.
Etc.

😬 not good company to be in.