How to love your family, when God hates the nonelects?
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"John146,
Nice try John, let's expose your error-
[That's exactly what Calvinist's do...fragment scripture. For example, for whom did Christ die?]
He died a Covenant death for the elect children the father gave to Him.
[1. For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).] The passages explain themselves
1tim2;
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority;
isa53;11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
[2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).] The passages explain themselves
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
[3. For the world (John 3:16).]
Every believing one, vs 15, 16
4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
The sins of, are not in the text
5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
These ungodly spoken of, are the justified elect from vs.1 all the way through the passage
6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
Jesus owns the rights to all men, jn17.1-3, he gives life to those the father gave Him
7. For many (Matt. 20:28).
For many, not all.
8. For Israel (John 11:50-51).
No, for the children scattered worldwide
9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
Yes, the church, not the goats
[10. For “me” (Gal. 2:20).]
Yes, Paul was an effectually called elect sheep
[It is evident that the Calvinist must ignore the clear language ]
No. The Calvinists understands the passages, you do not .You got each one wrong!
[and obvious sense of many passages and he must force the Scriptures and make them fit into his own theological mold.]
If it was obvious, you would not have gotten it wrong.
[Limited atonement may seem logical and reasonable, but the real test is this: Is it Biblical? “What saith the Scriptures?” (Rom. 4:3).]
It is the core truth of the biblical salvation described in the bible
[In childlike faith we must simply allow the Bible to say what it says.]
yes, you can try and do that today.
Nice try John, let's expose your error-
[That's exactly what Calvinist's do...fragment scripture. For example, for whom did Christ die?]
He died a Covenant death for the elect children the father gave to Him.
[1. For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).] The passages explain themselves
1tim2;
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority;
isa53;11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
[2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).] The passages explain themselves
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
[3. For the world (John 3:16).]
Every believing one, vs 15, 16
4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
The sins of, are not in the text
5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
These ungodly spoken of, are the justified elect from vs.1 all the way through the passage
6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
Jesus owns the rights to all men, jn17.1-3, he gives life to those the father gave Him
7. For many (Matt. 20:28).
For many, not all.
8. For Israel (John 11:50-51).
No, for the children scattered worldwide
9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
Yes, the church, not the goats
[10. For “me” (Gal. 2:20).]
Yes, Paul was an effectually called elect sheep
[It is evident that the Calvinist must ignore the clear language ]
No. The Calvinists understands the passages, you do not .You got each one wrong!
[and obvious sense of many passages and he must force the Scriptures and make them fit into his own theological mold.]
If it was obvious, you would not have gotten it wrong.
[Limited atonement may seem logical and reasonable, but the real test is this: Is it Biblical? “What saith the Scriptures?” (Rom. 4:3).]
It is the core truth of the biblical salvation described in the bible
[In childlike faith we must simply allow the Bible to say what it says.]
yes, you can try and do that today.
Dancing around and altering scripture is what one must do to justify the Calvinist position. Even a child could read the passages and have a biblical understanding that Christ died for all, everyone, everywhere...
Why pray? Why evangelize? Why send money to missionaries? Why become a missionary in disease infested countries? The Calvinist God is the author of sin. No thank you.
Why pray? Why evangelize? Why send money to missionaries? Why become a missionary in disease infested countries? The Calvinist God is the author of sin. No thank you.
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John146,
[Dancing around and altering scripture]
That is what you are doing by avoiding the responses you were given. Try and show where hebrews2 does not have the elect children, those given by the Father to the Son in mind!
[is what one must do to justify the Calvinist position.]
This is the biblical position.fact is you do not grasp the teaching. Why do I say that? Am I trying to mean? NO
What I mean is you are not speaking of the biblical terms! it is you who confuse the issue, by offering a different meaning.
Did Jesus accomplish an actual redemption? Or did he try, but did not actually save anyone, unless they add to it.
Did Jesus actually save His people? Or was it a potential salvation that man must add to it
Was Jesus work on the cross perfect? Or, did he try His best, and man must help Him get it done?
Is salvation of the Lord? Or is theology Man centered, with Man being in control?
[Even a child could read the passages and have a biblical understanding that Christ died for all, everyone, everywhere...]
Was this death effectual? are all men , everywhere saved by it? What of those who never heard about Jesus, did it save them?
If he died for them are they somehow saved, or does His death not apply to them?
[Why pray?]
God who is in control of whatsoever comes to pass, has commanded it as ameans of grace and good works that he has ordained for us to do Eph2:10
[Why evangelize? Why send money to missionaries? Why become a missionary in disease infested countries?]
because people are perishing without Christ everyday Rom 10 9-17
[The Calvinist God is the author of sin. ]
Ah, here is the root of the matter. You hate the God of the Bible. There is only one true, and living God revealed in scripture.
You evidently have invented another one that does what you think he should do.
fact is, with your invented god, you do not need a bible, as you can just make it up as you go. he tried, he failed, he needs our help, he wants to save,but cannot .Man is your God.Your free will man controls your god. We both know that is how you teach it.
[No thank you.]
That is between you and God, I just see what you post.
[Dancing around and altering scripture]
That is what you are doing by avoiding the responses you were given. Try and show where hebrews2 does not have the elect children, those given by the Father to the Son in mind!
[is what one must do to justify the Calvinist position.]
This is the biblical position.fact is you do not grasp the teaching. Why do I say that? Am I trying to mean? NO
What I mean is you are not speaking of the biblical terms! it is you who confuse the issue, by offering a different meaning.
Did Jesus accomplish an actual redemption? Or did he try, but did not actually save anyone, unless they add to it.
Did Jesus actually save His people? Or was it a potential salvation that man must add to it
Was Jesus work on the cross perfect? Or, did he try His best, and man must help Him get it done?
Is salvation of the Lord? Or is theology Man centered, with Man being in control?
[Even a child could read the passages and have a biblical understanding that Christ died for all, everyone, everywhere...]
Was this death effectual? are all men , everywhere saved by it? What of those who never heard about Jesus, did it save them?
If he died for them are they somehow saved, or does His death not apply to them?
[Why pray?]
God who is in control of whatsoever comes to pass, has commanded it as ameans of grace and good works that he has ordained for us to do Eph2:10
[Why evangelize? Why send money to missionaries? Why become a missionary in disease infested countries?]
because people are perishing without Christ everyday Rom 10 9-17
[The Calvinist God is the author of sin. ]
Ah, here is the root of the matter. You hate the God of the Bible. There is only one true, and living God revealed in scripture.
You evidently have invented another one that does what you think he should do.
fact is, with your invented god, you do not need a bible, as you can just make it up as you go. he tried, he failed, he needs our help, he wants to save,but cannot .Man is your God.Your free will man controls your god. We both know that is how you teach it.
[No thank you.]
That is between you and God, I just see what you post.
For God so loved the WORLD …
Scripture teaches us that God is love. It’s incomprehensible how you believe that God, being the very essence of love Himself, grossly limits His love and grace to only a few select people of His choosing while shunning everyone else prior to their birth into this world.
Scripture teaches us that God is love. It’s incomprehensible how you believe that God, being the very essence of love Himself, grossly limits His love and grace to only a few select people of His choosing while shunning everyone else prior to their birth into this world.
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"Snacker,
[For God so loved the WORLD …]
Yes He did. That Love caused Him to do something.
What was that? Of course it was the giving of His Son. To What end???
That every believing one;
15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
[Scripture teaches us that God is love.]
Scripture teaches man things about God.God is primarily HOLY
When Isa. saw Jesus in chapter 6...he said Holy, Holy, Holy.........not love, love, love.
God is love, and yet it is a HOLY LOVE. A Holy wrath, A Holy Judgment, A Holy righteousness.
[It’s incomprehensible how you believe that God, being the very essence of love Himself, grossly limits His love]
What I believe is not the issue, what the scripture says is what we need to deal with.
I see in Romans 5, and romans 8 we are told that the love of God, is in Christ, not apart from Him....
those in hell in the second death will not have the love of God comforting them there.
Look here;
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
If the love of God is shed abroad by the Holy Ghost, which is given unto us...are you claiming the unsaved have the Holy Ghost?
or here;
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[and grace to only a few select people of His choosing while shunning everyone else prior to their birth into this world.]
It is an elect number, that no man can number why do you suggest a "select few".Is that the false teaching you sit under?
[For God so loved the WORLD …]
Yes He did. That Love caused Him to do something.
What was that? Of course it was the giving of His Son. To What end???
That every believing one;
15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
[Scripture teaches us that God is love.]
Scripture teaches man things about God.God is primarily HOLY
When Isa. saw Jesus in chapter 6...he said Holy, Holy, Holy.........not love, love, love.
God is love, and yet it is a HOLY LOVE. A Holy wrath, A Holy Judgment, A Holy righteousness.
[It’s incomprehensible how you believe that God, being the very essence of love Himself, grossly limits His love]
What I believe is not the issue, what the scripture says is what we need to deal with.
I see in Romans 5, and romans 8 we are told that the love of God, is in Christ, not apart from Him....
those in hell in the second death will not have the love of God comforting them there.
Look here;
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
If the love of God is shed abroad by the Holy Ghost, which is given unto us...are you claiming the unsaved have the Holy Ghost?
or here;
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[and grace to only a few select people of His choosing while shunning everyone else prior to their birth into this world.]
It is an elect number, that no man can number why do you suggest a "select few".Is that the false teaching you sit under?