Courtship...Broken Courtship

But God said to Abraham, “Do not be upset about the boy or your slave wife. Do all that Sarah is telling you because through Isaac your descendants will be counted. But I will also make the son of the slave wife into a great nation, for he is your descendant too.”

Genesis 21:12-13

lol Abraham you have to submit to your first wife. She may call you Lord, but you have to call her 'Boss Lady'

Poor slave wives....always second best...

She asked Abraham's permission first. Abraham spoke with God about it.

That’s not quite what’s being communicated in this passage.

God certainly does not tell Abraham to call her “boss lady.”

Sarah is speaking in accordance with God’s will, that ultimately being to bring about the promise of our beloved Jesus through Isaac’s line, not Ishmael’s.

well Sarah can talk to God as well, she doesnt have to always go through Abraham, and Abraham can listen to what Sarah says, because she was listening to God (although she didnt listen in the first instance, thats why she got herself into that mess! )

I don't know why so many Christian women don't like the idea of submission. Is it the culture coming into the church? Biblical submission is beautiful; it's all for our good.

How about BOTH listen to God. Then Hagar would have been spared

I think we need to submit to God first. If we cant do that, we cannot submit to each other.

Men find it hard to submit too...Abraham certainly did not always obey God in everything. He bargained and questioned God as well. It was a learning curve for him.

True. Submit yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Islam has a culture of submission ...to Allah. The whole religion is all about submission.

Can you find any passage where Abraham tells Sarah that you have to go through me in order to talk to God?

And yes, God is the final authority. I believe we ought to obey God rather than men, as the disciples in Acts said. But you know Sarah was praised in Hebrews as being a woman of faith, and she submitted even when Abraham told her to tell a half-truth which almost resulted in her being taken as another man's wife!

They also have a saying that its Gods will for everything...but some of the practices of Islam are not healthy for women. I think men are ok, but it treats women like ...you can wipe your feet on them.

no but Sarah had to figure it out herself since Abraham monopolised a lot of time with God.
She also laughed when she heard she was going to have a baby.

Abraham told lies (or half truths) to protect Sarah, well actually it sems like it was more to save his own skin
That marriage was a bit confusing...obviously they couldnt wait to have a baby but it took a looooong time.

Like most marriages it didnt always go smoothly. Imagine being told youd have a baby then have to wait 25 years for it and then having this brilliant idea our slave girl can have one for us! And Abraham agreed...he could have said no Sarah that is a very stupid and insane idea.

Isn’t it amazing how so many professing Christian women gladly proclaim their submission and devotion to Jesus, yet when they are told to do this with their own husband, all of a sudden there’s a problem?

“Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything” (Ephesians 5:24).

Im thinking maybe they havent married a christian husband...or he doesnt measure up? Not sure.

Sadly, there are many reasons for the problem.

@HopeinHim98 hits on a big one when she asks, “Is it the culture coming into the church?”

I just read that again yesterday in Genesis.
In spite of that by God's grace they are named in the Hall of Faith forever, Hebrews 11.
The culture has a hard time with being under proper authority. They are also having a hard time accepting the basic truth that marriage is between one man and one woman. Lots of liberal churches have pastors who push that LGBTPQ as the new norm. The Calvinists pastor woman downtown calls it "an alternative lifestyle."
I think that the worldly culture has influenced most churches. No church is perfect, but it's getting ridiculous. I don't want to give a bunch of examples because it's getting late and we don't probably want a bunch of focus on church problems before sleep. It's good though to hear from a lady who tries to be what God has designed you to be.