Works of the Law

Well I understand that I can't get you to repent...but maybe I can get you to study who Paul was directing this statement. When you do this study, you will find that Paul was directing them towards the Jews, those who had been under The Law of Moses, the Law in place during their generation...and the many generations who came before them.
I suggest to get a little background, context before reading Paul.
Start in Acts....where the problem began and notice who is preaching the Law of Moses. This is why Paul taught what he did about the Law in his Epistles. The argument continued against these teachers of the Law for the rest of his life. And now....the Gentiles take it to mean Paul was talking about, The Law of Christ.
Study the foundation of Pauls teachings about Works....starting in (Acts 13), then after you have some foundation for Pauls teachings.....go read his epistles again.

I generally have no shortage of things to repent of. I always know what those things I need to repent of because the Holy Spirit dwelling in me convicts me of sin and leads me into sorrow and repentance.
When people try to convict me of sin, they too should be working in the power of the Holy Spirit if they want me to take them seriously.

Your voice isn't the same as the Shepherd. His voice I know. Your voice sounds nothing like His, although you use some of the same words.
Salvation does not come by the law, but by Christ. And anyone who claims not to sin is deceiving themselves.
Grace and peace.

I generally have no shortage of things to repent of. I always know what those things I need to repent of because the Holy Spirit dwelling in me convicts me of sin and leads me into sorrow and repentance.
When people try to convict me of sin, they too should be working in the power of the Holy Spirit if they want me to take them seriously.

Your voice isn't the same as the Shepherd. His voice I know. Your voice sounds nothing like His, although you use some of the same words.
Salvation does not come by the law, but by Christ. And anyone who claims not to sin is deceiving themselves.
Grace and peace.

I generally have no shortage of things to repent of. I always know what those things I need to repent of because the Holy Spirit dwelling in me convicts me of sin and leads me into sorrow and repentance.
When people try to convict me of sin, they too should be working in the power of the Holy Spirit if they want me to take them seriously.

Your voice isn't the same as the Shepherd. His voice I know. Your voice sounds nothing like His, although you use some of the same words.
Salvation does not come by the law, but by Christ. And anyone who claims not to sin is deceiving themselves.
Grace and peace.

How can you sin if there is no LAW?

Did the lord tell us not to judge?

Judging Others
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

How can you sin if there is no LAW?

Cameron please read carefully the words of jesus below, Jesus did ask his believers to keep the
commandments, by commandments i mean the 10 commandments not the 613, many of these
were for other purpose such as purification rites for the levites, there are not for the general
population but the 10 commandments are for all to follow. even Paul says to follow the commandments.

We cannot cherry pick a verse here or there to make a point but have to look at the big picture; throughout the
bible if not in all the books of the bible, the commandments are most important, revered, and cherished!

Blesings.

John was clear about the Commandments of the Lord:

"And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

The Lord represented the Father in totum: There was no schism between the Father and the Son. In fact, they were One. God did not continue the ministry of sin and death (Law) after it served its purpose to deliver the One who was to come to save men from their sins. At the appearing of the Son and His sacrifice on the cross, the Law was no longer needed.

Law worshippers do not understand the reality of being changed by the Spirit of God into a new creation. Also, they like to use the Law as a standard of judgment against the Spirit-led saints: accusing them of never measuring up. It's just an echo of the voice of the Accuser. He will gladly provide the Law worshippers their talking points and they are all too eager to receive them.

You say works comes later,.....but please answer the following three questions after reading the Lords teaching below.... Not for my benefit, but for yours.
(John 14:23)
He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
According to Jesus, must we keep the Lords commandments to show we Love him?
Does God the Father love us, if we don't keep the his commandments?
After reading what Jesus said, Do you still believe God the Father will save those who don't keep his commandments?

A little more persuasion.....Who will be punished?
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

How can you sin if there is no LAW?

How can you sin if there is no LAW?

The Sabbath command was not once repeated in the NT, not even when Jesus listed off the commandments for the rich young ruler.

But how do you reconcile the Grace teachings of Jesus, with the Grace the Church says Paul taught?

Hello Magenta, Jesus followed the law, was teaching in the temple, magnified it, then fulfilled it.

from (KJV);

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Blessings.

I always know what those things I need to repent of because the Holy Spirit dwelling in me convicts me of sin and leads me into sorrow and repentance.
.

A person can only ever be saved by the atonement that Jesus accomplished.

No matter how obedient you could ever be, that atonement that Jesus put forth, will be the only reason you are saved.

You cannot generate any righteousness of your own, no matter how holy you think you are.

No one is saying that works, or obedience, or love, is not necessary.

What we are saying is that Jesus is the sole reason for your salvation.

Get your doctrine in order, Jesus first and last in everything.

First off...I'm happy to hear the Holy Spirit is convicting you of sin. And Glad you recognize it.
But ask yourself, Why would the Holy Spirit convict you of sin, if you are not under the Law?
Remember, Sin is the transgression of the Law. And if you were not under the Law of Christ, the Holy Spirit would have nothing to convict you for.
Just Something for you to think about.

Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

This statement below from your previous post implies that both faith and works are the root of salvation:

To be saved from the flood they needed to believe and obey, to be saved from Egypt and be passed over, (last plague), they needed to believe and obey. To be part of God's people at the end we need to believe and obey.

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated his faith and saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:17)

God told Moses and Aaron to instruct the Israelites to paint blood on their door posts. This signified their faith in God's warning and marked them out from the pagan Egyptians; when the angel of death passed through Egypt he would pass over the doors marked with blood (hence the name, "Passover") without killing the firstborn males who lived within those houses.

Obedience is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers. So to be part of God's people at the end, just how much do we need to obey according to you? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "obedient enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? Does that not imply that we are saved by faith AND obedience/works?

In that same post you also said:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Those who focus heavy on law keeping, particularly with keeping the 10 commandments from the OT continuously cite verses about keeping the commandments as if that is the basis or means by which we will receive eternal life. (salvation by faith and works) 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved, demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over - Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. We do not flawlessly obey God's commandments 100% of the time. We are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time, but in the eyes of God, believers are seen in the eyes of God as righteous and flawless only because of the righteousness of God which is imputed by faith. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9 etc..)

Finally in that same post, you said:

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Salvation is not a reward that we receive based on works. 1 Corinthians 3:11 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I'm judging based on your words and I've heard your same arguments from others who teach salvation by faith and works so what do you expect me to believe? Keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments is the demonstrative evidence of our love for the Lord, but is not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.

Sure we should obey our Lord after we have been saved through faith, yet there is a difference between doing His will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

AND doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Obedience that believers produce "after they have been saved through faith" is the fruit of salvation or the means of salvation? Which do you proclaim?

Those who teach salvation by faith and works are typically fond of these verses. I'm sure that "turn from the holy commandments" in verse 21 really jumped out at you, especially if you believe that commandment keeping is the basis or means by which we obtain and/or maintain our salvation.

Now those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:4)

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.