Spiritual gifts:Unconfusing them part 3 - analogy

If I said to you I will give you a gift but you must do something first before you can get it. You immediately start thinking, wow, wonder what I'm going to get? Will it be a car, or a TV, or boat, or ??? And what will I have to do?

Then I tell you what the deal is and what the gift is

The gift is not a car, or TV, or boat, but simply money. With that money, you can then get other gifts, like the car, or TV, or boat.

This is the meaning of Acts 2:38 and 1 Corinthians 12:8-10.

The money is the primary gift and once you have the money you can then obtain secondary gifts with or by it.

The money, the gift in this analogy is the Holy Ghost, the primary gift.

The car, TV, and boat are the secondary gifts, the spiritual gifts listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10.

And what you have to do to obtain the primary gift (the Holy Ghost), before you can get the secondary gifts (the spiritual gifts or manifestations of the spirit), is repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins, per Acts 2:38.

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Interesting. Because the Gifts are called " the gifts of the Holy Spirit> So the Holy Spirit give them to those He sees best for the betterment of the Whole Body as it states in 1cor chapter

Verse 1 established the ground rule You must be saved and

1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:




Moving forward to the ending verses


27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

The idea of money or a car as a gift in addition to what is the real Gift, "The Holy Spirit," seems out of context a bit.

We, as a believer, must seek the gifts that are needed to do the current job or calling. If you need discipleship, the gift of healing is not going to get it done. The motive for desiring the gifts must be for the benefit of the whole body. Because when one fails, it hurts the whole body doesn't it?

The analogy is perfect. There is the gift of the Spirit itself followed by the gifts of the Spirit which came afterwards. Likewise, money being the gift followed by the further gifts that money allows.
Context has nothing to do with its; its comparative.

And the gift of healing you mentioned. If it were present today, which it is not, why are the hospitals filled with sick people needing healing? It's nonsense. The miraculous gifts have ceased long ago as the scriptures indicate they would. 1 Cor 13:8

The analogy is perfect. There is the gift of the Spirit itself followed by the gifts of the Spirit which came afterwards. Likewise, money being the gift followed by the further gifts that money allows.
Context has nothing to do with its; its comparative.

And the gift of healing you mentioned. If it were present today, which it is not, why are the hospitals filled with sick people needing healing? It's nonsense. The miraculous gifts have ceased long ago as the scriptures indicate they would. 1 Cor 13:8

Where the analogy breaks down is that while if you are given money you may purchase at your discretion, having the Holy Spirit dwelling in you does not allow you to choose what spiritual gifts you receive.
And spiritual gifts are still subject to the Spirit. Someone could have the gift of healing and the Spirit only employ it once or a few times.

You are partially correct. Money allows you to purchase at will. But having the spirit dwelling in you does not even guarantee that spiritual gifts will be made available. The apostles prayed first that the Holy Ghost would fall on them, and then they laid their hands. And the analogy was to point out in analogous terms, that the Spirit and gifts of the Spirit and two distinctly different things. Baptized believers even today get the gift of the Spirit per Acts 2:38, but the gifts manifested by the Spirit are a separate issue and are no longer manifested since they were made manifest by the laying on of the apostle's hands.

You are partially correct. Money allows you to purchase at will. But having the spirit dwelling in you does not even guarantee that spiritual gifts will be made available. The apostles prayed first that the Holy Ghost would fall on them, and then they laid their hands. And the analogy was to point out in analogous terms, that the Spirit and gifts of the Spirit and two distinctly different things. Baptized believers even today get the gift of the Spirit per Acts 2:38, but the gifts manifested by the Spirit are a separate issue and are no longer manifested since they were made manifest by the laying on of the apostle's hands.

You are partially correct. Money allows you to purchase at will. But having the spirit dwelling in you does not even guarantee that spiritual gifts will be made available. The apostles prayed first that the Holy Ghost would fall on them, and then they laid their hands. And the analogy was to point out in analogous terms, that the Spirit and gifts of the Spirit and two distinctly different things. Baptized believers even today get the gift of the Spirit per Acts 2:38, but the gifts manifested by the Spirit are a separate issue and are no longer manifested since they were made manifest by the laying on of the apostle's hands.

I see. I agree that there is a giving of the Spirit that is separate from the giving of gifts. But 12:7 says the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each for the benefit of all. All believers receive some spiritual gifting.

Go back one verse
It means to each that has been given a miraculous gift is for the benefit of all. It doesn't mean everyone has been given a miraculous gift, but to those that have been so given one of the gifts, it was meant for the good of everyone because the message of their gift would be shared and coupled with those that had other different gifts, all coming together to form the body, to its composite benefit.

Go back one verse
It means to each that has been given a miraculous gift is for the benefit of all. It doesn't mean everyone has been given a miraculous gift, but to those that have been so given one of the gifts, it was meant for the good of everyone because the message of their gift would be shared and coupled with those that had other different gifts, all coming together to form the body, to its composite benefit.

Go back one verse
It means to each that has been given a miraculous gift is for the benefit of all. It doesn't mean everyone has been given a miraculous gift, but to those that have been so given one of the gifts, it was meant for the good of everyone because the message of their gift would be shared and coupled with those that had other different gifts, all coming together to form the body, to its composite benefit.

The beginning point of receiving the Holy Spirit at salvation is the main thing. If you have to be water baptised... That is plain works for salvation and not a christian teaching.

But looking beyond that to the gifts ... In the Bible these were not earned or learned but given and then desired of as in using what they are given.

Like faith being given and then exercised in James 2.

The way God gives is thru unmerited favour when talking salvation and gifts.

I am on the same page on the sign gifts having passed with the apostles passing and Word of God complete.. but we are poles apart on initial salvation.

The analogy is perfect. There is the gift of the Spirit itself followed by the gifts of the Spirit which came afterwards. Likewise, money being the gift followed by the further gifts that money allows.
Context has nothing to do with it; its comparative.

And the gift of healing you mentioned. If it were present today, which it is not, why are the hospitals filled with sick people needing healing? It's nonsense. The miraculous gifts have ceased long ago as the scriptures indicate they would. 1 Cor 13:8

First of all, the gifts are NOT active today, relevant, but not active. Who today is performing miracles, like feeding 5k with a few fish and a couple loaves of bread, or raising the dead, etc, ? Who is healing the sick and mamed, and why are hospitals around the world filled with such? Who is prophesying with such prophesies that are not already revealed in the complete word of God? Who has unique words of knowledge and wisdom such as Solomon had that's beyond what's been already told to us? All you hear about today are tongues, which when witnessed is just incoherent babbling that is done without order, is not a sign to unbelievers but within congregations, and no one interprets?

The true gifts have ceased and for good reason as we now have the complete word of God and no longer need them, as well as there is no longer anyone to make them manifest, i.e., apostles.

Start with Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:47-49 both restated in Acts 1:4-5. What's it say? One will come that will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire, in Luke 3:16, and in Luke 24:47-49, it says repentance and remission of sins should be preached starting at Jerusalem and to tarry there until they received power ftom on high. And what's Acts 1:4-5 say? It restates both of these.
"4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

And in Luke 24:47-49, who was this addressed to? Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the APOSTLES and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Then Acts 1:8 says the following

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant for THE APOSTLE'S as well as the power from on high, and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.

Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In that case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but they were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body; you're baptized into Christ as noted in scripture such as Acts 2:38-47 and elsewhere.

The power from on high and the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, not the Spirit itself, but it's gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, are manifested by the laying on of the APOSTLE'S hands as noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:18 and Acts 19:6, 2 Tim 1:6, and it was the apostles who performed the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as noted in Acts 5:12 and those that they laid their hands on such as Stephen as recoreded in Acts 6:6.

The events in Acts 2 and 10 wherein the Holy Spirit fell unilaterally was nit the norm but rather unique. Why? It was a sign and validation of what was occurring? Why? In both cases the church was started; first in Jerusalem amongst the Jews, and then in Caesarea amongst the Gentiles: 2 unique instances and for very good reason. All other recorded examples of the Holy Ghost falling wherein gifts became manifest required the laying on of the apostle's hands, and they are all dead.

First off, who made you the authority to say that "gifts are NOT active today"

Please show one verse in the word of God that states the gifts are not for today or relevant? Just because you have not seen it doesn't mean they don't happen. God did not appoint you as the authenticator for all God does.

Even in your out-of-line standard of what is a miracle and mocking attitude of the things God did like your comment :

"Who today is performing miracles, like feeding 5k with a few fish and a couple loaves of bread, or raising the dead, etc, ?"

That is your "Pharisees" problem, who said the same thing to Jesus. Perform, get down from the Cross. Then when they could not deny the works he did, they called him a devil.

Do you claim to be a Christian? Where is your proof of Winning souls? Or your proof of feeding the hungry in the name of the lord?

I bet you have no outreach you have done and cry about miracles you have not seen yet. YOU want to lift a finger to help a person.
Want to see proof of your Works for the Lord, those who you won to Jesus. I don't believe you did it because I have not seen it.

How foolish that sounds. Don't you agree? Do you want to see healing? Real ones? Do you? Start praying for the sick and visit hospitals.

Do you want to see demons cast out? Do you? Start visiting those who are on the streets suffering from drug addiction and speak the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to them. You will see enough demons to satisfy your doubt.

Want to see the dead raised? YOU start praying for those who are dead, and I will tell you this. It only needs to happen once. The reason why you say it is not for today is that you are doing nothing. And IF you are, I want Proof. Just like you do.