Theories on the resurrection
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I’ve actually heard it all and there’s nothing that can prove resurrection false even if you take extreme positions such as : denying you exist or : matrix theory.
I’ve heard it all from all flavors of atheists so logically there’s nothing that anyone can say to disprove resurrection.
I’ve heard it all from all flavors of atheists so logically there’s nothing that anyone can say to disprove resurrection.
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Scripture does not say that Thomas actually put his hands in Jesus' wounds, even though he
was invited to do so and had previously said he would not believe until he had. The record
of Scripture only says that he believed when he saw, and that is what Jesus said also..
was invited to do so and had previously said he would not believe until he had. The record
of Scripture only says that he believed when he saw, and that is what Jesus said also..
John 20:27-28
New International Version
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
This could have gone either way based on the wording on whether Thomas actually touched Jesus' wounds or not. If the Lord told me to put my finger on His hands, I would have done it. The same with the side.
The key point here is Thomas doubts were washed away, and I love his conclusion: “My Lord and my God!”
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The physical resurrection of Jesus from the grave (He was dead on the human side and in the sepulchre--grave/tomb) is a critical doctrine of our faith:
The Apostles’ Creed (ELCA Version)
I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead [the grave].* On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
Sure, Jesus had other powers as a resurrected human being like being able to disguise himself and appear and vanish as desired. But, the Jesus who the disciples spent quality time with and loved dearly was back with them physically after His death for a short time before "...he ascended into heaven"!
The Apostles’ Creed (ELCA Version)
I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead [the grave].* On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
Sure, Jesus had other powers as a resurrected human being like being able to disguise himself and appear and vanish as desired. But, the Jesus who the disciples spent quality time with and loved dearly was back with them physically after His death for a short time before "...he ascended into heaven"!
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Had they simply said "Hades" it would have cleared the air. Christ did not descend into "the grave", since His body was laid in a tomb, and "sepulchre" is actually more fitting. But Christ's soul and spirit descended into Hades, which is in the lower parts of the earth or "the heart of the earth".
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What are your thoughts on the following verses:
1 Peter 3:18-20
King James Version
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1 Peter 3:18-20
King James Version
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
those [spirits] Jesus addressed, took actions against the Plan of God from the Garden (serpent and Eve), Genesis 6 defined by Book of Jude : Angels went after Strange Flesh and human women bore Nephellim or beings whose own spirits became demons [Yiddish Belief], and we have the Tower of Babel that is also demonically influenced for man to create a tower reaching God and making God pay attention to them rather other way around and explained in Deuteronomy 32:8-9 and clarified in Psalms 82.
Jesus went and preached the Gospel to THOSE that were trying to keep it from happening and were willing to sacrifice their own being to do it. Basically, Jesus did a VICTORY LAP to those who opposed Him and were already trapped and bound. i am sure it was a very heartfelt moment between the two sides
Jesus went and preached the Gospel to THOSE that were trying to keep it from happening and were willing to sacrifice their own being to do it. Basically, Jesus did a VICTORY LAP to those who opposed Him and were already trapped and bound. i am sure it was a very heartfelt moment between the two sides
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This passage speaks of the spirits in prison (actually the evil angels) from before the Flood chained in Tartarus. Peter mentions them here: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly (2 Pet 2:4,5)
So when Christ was in Hades (for three days and three nights) He proclaimed (1) His victory on the cross, as well as (2) the final judgment of these spirits (and all the unrighteous dead) when they are cast into the Lake of Fire. But there is no doubt that He also "preached" to the righteous and unrighteous dead in Hades during that same time. Again, it was not the Gospel, but the proclamation of the victory of Christ through His one great sacrifice. For it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. Perhaps the righteous dead were told that they would be taken out of this prison and taken to Heaven at the resurrection of Christ.
So when Christ was in Hades (for three days and three nights) He proclaimed (1) His victory on the cross, as well as (2) the final judgment of these spirits (and all the unrighteous dead) when they are cast into the Lake of Fire. But there is no doubt that He also "preached" to the righteous and unrighteous dead in Hades during that same time. Again, it was not the Gospel, but the proclamation of the victory of Christ through His one great sacrifice. For it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. Perhaps the righteous dead were told that they would be taken out of this prison and taken to Heaven at the resurrection of Christ.
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P
When you listen to the medical evidence-based on the crucifixion i can only wonder how jesus made it to the cross after the beatings and flogging. Let alone the nailing.
The shock and trauma let alone the blood loss was far greater than one could bear. It far exceeded any normal endurance.
To say he wasn't really dead?...Would you really believe a roman soilder couldnt tell. That a roman appointed guard made a mistake. Get real. The romans were experts in there craft.
Now the life of CHRIST fulfilled so many prophecies why would his resurrection be so hard to believe?
Why would the eye witnesses prefer death over denial. Roman soilders killed for there failure in duty. Temple guards faced excommunication.
Better yet tell me who would have enough money and guts to even attempt to bribe the guards at the tomb.
How on earth could you steal it?
Im sure after 2 days of curiously checking in at the site the people who were aware of his prediction felt assured it was a no show. Let alone im sure some eyes were looking for his followers to show up at some time to attempt a smash and grab.
The shock and trauma let alone the blood loss was far greater than one could bear. It far exceeded any normal endurance.
To say he wasn't really dead?...Would you really believe a roman soilder couldnt tell. That a roman appointed guard made a mistake. Get real. The romans were experts in there craft.
Now the life of CHRIST fulfilled so many prophecies why would his resurrection be so hard to believe?
Why would the eye witnesses prefer death over denial. Roman soilders killed for there failure in duty. Temple guards faced excommunication.
Better yet tell me who would have enough money and guts to even attempt to bribe the guards at the tomb.
How on earth could you steal it?
Im sure after 2 days of curiously checking in at the site the people who were aware of his prediction felt assured it was a no show. Let alone im sure some eyes were looking for his followers to show up at some time to attempt a smash and grab.
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Great point and quite fitting based on where we are at in Holy Week. Yes, I love looking forward to Easter and the hope we have in our resurrected Lord ("He is risen; He is risen indeed!"), yet remembering Jesus' incredibly painful sacrifice for us with the kangaroo court, mockings and beatings, and suffering and dying on the cross is humbling to say the least.
The spear in the side of Jesus from a highly trained soldier certainly put an end to any hopes his disciples and family had at that time that Jesus would survive the crucifixion.
The spear in the side of Jesus from a highly trained soldier certainly put an end to any hopes his disciples and family had at that time that Jesus would survive the crucifixion.
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.
A preponderance of textual evidence indicates Jesus' crucified dead body
was restored to life during the third day rather than later when the third day
was completely over and done with.
Matt 17:22-23
Matt 20:18-19
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 18:33
Luke 24:5-8
Luke 24:21-23
Luke 24:46
John 2:19
Acts 10:40
1Cor 15:4
Now, according to Luke 24:21-23 the third day was in progress when the
women went out to the cemetery.
OBJECTION: Sunday couldn't have been the third day because the women
went to the cemetery before the Sun was up and Jesus was already gone.
(John 20:1)
REPLY: Holy days began and ended at sunset; whereas civil days began at
06:00 am and ended at 06:00 pm; which made for a twelve-hour day
regardless of the season. (John 11:9-10).
Sometimes civil days began before the Sun was up. For example: the Sun
will rise in Jerusalem April 5, 2023 at 06:23 am, which in the past would've
been 23 minutes after the beginning of their civil day.
So; if Jesus did his thing, and the women theirs, sometime in those 23
minutes before sunrise, then he and they were within the limits of a new day
rather than the tail end of a previous night.
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A preponderance of textual evidence indicates Jesus' crucified dead body
was restored to life during the third day rather than later when the third day
was completely over and done with.
Matt 17:22-23
Matt 20:18-19
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 18:33
Luke 24:5-8
Luke 24:21-23
Luke 24:46
John 2:19
Acts 10:40
1Cor 15:4
Now, according to Luke 24:21-23 the third day was in progress when the
women went out to the cemetery.
OBJECTION: Sunday couldn't have been the third day because the women
went to the cemetery before the Sun was up and Jesus was already gone.
(John 20:1)
REPLY: Holy days began and ended at sunset; whereas civil days began at
06:00 am and ended at 06:00 pm; which made for a twelve-hour day
regardless of the season. (John 11:9-10).
Sometimes civil days began before the Sun was up. For example: the Sun
will rise in Jerusalem April 5, 2023 at 06:23 am, which in the past would've
been 23 minutes after the beginning of their civil day.
So; if Jesus did his thing, and the women theirs, sometime in those 23
minutes before sunrise, then he and they were within the limits of a new day
rather than the tail end of a previous night.
_
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A profound resurrection story...
Luke 24:13-35
New International Version
On the Road to Emmaus
13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”
They stood still, their faces downcast. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”
19 “What things?” he asked.
“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”
25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.
30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.
Look forward to discussing these passages in depth!
Interesting how Jesus joined these two disciples in the following context:
15. ...Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
The Lord walked alongside two of His disciples mourning His death, yet these two humble disciples "...were kept from recognizing him."
Hmm...why would Jesus do this? One idea is he wanted to join these disciples as a fellow human traveler.
Jesus is happy to meet us wherever we are in life, especially when we are grieving and lamenting the deepest sorrows of this sometimes painful life.
Luke 24:13-35
New International Version
On the Road to Emmaus
13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”
They stood still, their faces downcast. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”
19 “What things?” he asked.
“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”
25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.
30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.
Look forward to discussing these passages in depth!
Interesting how Jesus joined these two disciples in the following context:
15. ...Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
The Lord walked alongside two of His disciples mourning His death, yet these two humble disciples "...were kept from recognizing him."
Hmm...why would Jesus do this? One idea is he wanted to join these disciples as a fellow human traveler.
Jesus is happy to meet us wherever we are in life, especially when we are grieving and lamenting the deepest sorrows of this sometimes painful life.
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How do you reconcile your theory with the prophecy of Christ? That He would be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. Here is the allusion from Jonah: Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. (Jonah 1:17)