Do you still believe America is a Christian nation?

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Niki7

Guest
#41
#41
HeIsHere said:
It seems capitalization is back in vogue for the season. :D
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Do you have something to say about my post? Sniping is not CREATIVE.

It's quite a stretch to say that the founders of this nation established it as a Christian nation because they clearly did not. The Constitution was written with certain Biblical ideals in mind, but certainly not indicative of the intent to create a nation based on the Bible or Christianity itself. It does assert that all men have basic rights 'endowed by their Creator'.

We can see, even in the microcosm of this forum, that religion does not at all create co-operation or agreement among its members. Perhaps you are not aware of the fact that James Madison was against the idea that religion in politics would create an ideal atmosphere for the common good of all through co-operation as the individual would bow to a higher authority...or God as in the God of the Bible. Madison debated this to the point it became his longest negative assertions to the contributions of those involved in the creation of the Constitution and in the end, it was decided that 'faith' would not be a deciding factor in someone holding office. In other words, keeping faith...any faith by the way...was not included in the adoption of the Constitution as it is written, private beliefs aside and of no consequence apparently. Morality is not necessarily to be considered as Christian only as 'good deeds' are common even among even those who do not believe in God.

Christians do not believe good deeds equal salvation. We believe that Jesus sacrificed His life and shed His blood on our behalf for the forgiveness of sin both inherent and committed by every one of us. This, is not any part of the beliefs of the Constitution but it has become a sad inclusion on the part of some on the right who seem to think they are flashing some sort of righteousness badge.

For that, we can take a look at Sen. Graham who asked the Supreme Court nominee Ketanji Brown Jackson what her faith was. That was an inappropriate question and had no place in the proceedings according to the founders of this nation. Graham went on to ask
'On a scale of 1-10, how faithful would you say you are in terms of religion?' I wonder what his response, being asked that same question, would be.

For some reason, the mistaken idea this nation was founded as a Christian nation, has taken a deep hold on some and they will argue with you about it no end even though facts as in history and historical documents do not substantiate this belief.

History repeats itself as Solomon pointed out and the interesting and apparently overlooked thing, is that the original 13 colonies were founded by those escaping religious persecution in England. Actual Christians are now being persecuted in this county, the United States of America and it does not matter how much the Constitution is waved around. Is it working?
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#42
#42
America being a christian nation is one of the many American myths, the myth was taught as historical fact for generations, but it was always just one of the many myths.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#43
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#43
Niki7 said:
Do you have something to say about my post? Sniping is not CREATIVE.

It's quite a stretch to say that the founders of this nation established it as a Christian nation because they clearly did not. The Constitution was written with certain Biblical ideals in mind, but certainly not indicative of the intent to create a nation based on the Bible or Christianity itself. It does assert that all men have basic rights 'endowed by their Creator'.

We can see, even in the microcosm of this forum, that religion does not at all create co-operation or agreement among its members. Perhaps you are not aware of the fact that James Madison was against the idea that religion in politics would create an ideal atmosphere for the common good of all through co-operation as the individual would bow to a higher authority...or God as in the God of the Bible. Madison debated this to the point it became his longest negative assertions to the contributions of those involved in the creation of the Constitution and in the end, it was decided that 'faith' would not be a deciding factor in someone holding office. In other words, keeping faith...any faith by the way...was not included in the adoption of the Constitution as it is written, private beliefs aside and of no consequence apparently. Morality is not necessarily to be considered as Christian only as 'good deeds' are common even among even those who do not believe in God.

Christians do not believe good deeds equal salvation. We believe that Jesus sacrificed His life and shed His blood on our behalf for the forgiveness of sin both inherent and committed by every one of us. This, is not any part of the beliefs of the Constitution but it has become a sad inclusion on the part of some on the right who seem to think they are flashing some sort of righteousness badge.

For that, we can take a look at Sen. Graham who asked the Supreme Court nominee Ketanji Brown Jackson what her faith was. That was an inappropriate question and had no place in the proceedings according to the founders of this nation. Graham went on to ask
'On a scale of 1-10, how faithful would you say you are in terms of religion?' I wonder what his response, being asked that same question, would be.

For some reason, the mistaken idea this nation was founded as a Christian nation, has taken a deep hold on some and they will argue with you about it no end even though facts as in history and historical documents do not substantiate this belief.

History repeats itself as Solomon pointed out and the interesting and apparently overlooked thing, is that the original 13 colonies were founded by those escaping religious persecution in England. Actual Christians are now being persecuted in this county, the United States of America and it does not matter how much the Constitution is waved around. Is it working?
Click to expand...

It just seems to me that using capitals as opposed to not using them in a post is kinda like changing the window dressing, but the window is still the same size and shape don't you think?

Perhaps you can ponder the fact that not having a state religion in no way prohibits a nation from exercising its religious freedom and allowing that freedom to influence its culture and social systems.
And perhaps you can also ponder the fact that the right to not speak is just as important as the right to speak.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#45
Jul 12, 2021
3,041
1,798
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#45
I was just wondering, has any United States founding father or leader, instead of praying to “God“ or “the Creator“, prayed to Christ? Or have they given credit to Christ for our well-being, in any official capacity?
 
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Niki7

Guest
#46
#46
HeIsHere said:
It just seems to me that using capitals as opposed to not using them in a post is kinda like changing the window dressing, but the window is still the same size and shape don't you think?

Perhaps you can ponder the fact that not having a state religion in no way prohibits a nation from exercising its religious freedom and allowing that freedom to influence its culture and social systems.
And perhaps you can also ponder the fact that the right to not speak is just as important as the right to speak.
Click to expand...

Not at all interested in history then but prefer an emotional response that has no bearing on what I posted or what I think or believe?

You simply illustrate the desire to believe in your personal beliefs whether or not they agree with facts.

That is one of the reasons that Christianity has performed so badly. Rather than studying the Bible, people refer to what they feel rather than what God states.

Ponder that. Pretty much done with responding to whatever else you feel. You might take it up with Dino who was also very firm in his assertions this is not a Christian nation and never was.
 
AcceptedintheBeloved

AcceptedintheBeloved

Active member
#48
Mar 23, 2023
367
233
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youtube.com
#48
IDK, I don’t recall seeing any quote from one of them doing what you said. Please state you point, Aaron. Do you mean that if they don’t do as you say then that invalidates them in some way. :)
 
Snacks

Snacks

Well-known member
#49
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#49
HeIsHere said:
Perhaps you can ponder the fact that not having a state religion in no way prohibits a nation from exercising its religious freedom and allowing that freedom to influence its culture and social systems.
Click to expand...
Exactly! Apparently some people think Christians have no right or ability to partake in the Great Commission in a secular society. As the Word is shared, so is its influence in shaping that society, hence why America is a Christian nation; not in law but in spirit.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#50
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
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#50
Niki7 said:
Not at all interested in history then but prefer an emotional response that has no bearing on what I posted or what I think or believe?

You simply illustrate the desire to believe in your personal beliefs whether or not they agree with facts.

That is one of the reasons that Christianity has performed so badly. Rather than studying the Bible, people refer to what they feel rather than what God states.

Ponder that. Pretty much done with responding to whatever else you feel. You might take it up with Dino who was also very firm in his assertions this is not a Christian nation and never was.
Click to expand...
Which emotion would that be exactly?

The "facts" you presented are not novel, I've heard them many times and they do not negate the fact that America would not exist as the nation that it is, if it were not for the tapestry of Christian influence which modern jurisprudence has worked to undo.

And I could read NPR and obtain the same sentiment which @Dino246 wrote, I prefer to did a little deeper.
 
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Niki7

Guest
#51
#51
HeIsHere said:
Which emotion would that be exactly?

The "facts" you presented are not novel, I've heard them many times and they do not negate the fact that America would not exist as the nation that it is, if it were not for the tapestry of Christian influence which modern jurisprudence has worked to undo.

And I could read NPR and obtain the same sentiment which @Dino246 wrote, I prefer to did a little deeper.
Click to expand...

There are at least 8 other people who have negated the thought the US was ever a Christian nation.

Why do you and your friend the snack think you need to give me all your undivided attention? Him I choose to ignore. You defended him which is why you quoted my post as you did. The other dissenters are going to feel left out if you do not give them some of your wisdom and snappy replies.

I don't read NPR. I read and study scripture and I research history and historical papers.

Whatever you think you are digging, I think you need a new shovel.
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#52
Nov 19, 2019
1,801
630
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#52
JohnB said:
With all the events happening today, do you still believe America is a Christian nation? Biden now supports the LGBT, republicans want to cut benefits to the poor and middle class. Do you still think we are a Christian nation? So many time times in the 80's and 90's I heard Christian leaders calling America a Christian nation. I think that ship has sailed.
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If this is true and what a few others say as in never was a Christian nation then apply that same thinking to Israel or yourself for that matter. Look at all the times they Israel or you sinned missed it rejected Christ. Yet this is not how this works. Apply this same thinking to your own life. I wonder how many read what our forefathers wanted to do before they came over here. They in fact wanted and did make a convent with God and this is a Christian nation. When some believers look at other Churches or preachers what do you look at first and then judge them on? God does not do this man does. How ever this nation falls misses it we made a convent with God and He never breaks it. Just like Israel no matter what they have done or even now they are not following being His people yet GOD made a convent and promises and He will never break it.

Go for it.. pray about this fast about it bring it before Him and tell Him just how evil wicked and wrong sinful USA is and how He should be judging the USA. Lets stop right there. The moment you talk about some Judgment it HAS to start with you first. Ready for that are you? Always starts with us first. Then listen.. its not Him saying it ...its you and the enemy. Ask Him what the USA does for Him that no other nation on this planet does. That right there.. WHY is no one talking about that? Many hmm weight a person on .. sorry .. but weight them on "works".

I was thinking the other day this is not about this but how the woman was tossed at His feet. Did she repent? Did she ask Him to forgive her? He asked her where are those that accuse you? "Not here" she said . Neither do I go and sin no more. " “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you? No, Lord,” she said. And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

What so many miss is "I didn't come to condemn the world but to save it". The enemy is always accusing us...all Christ does is point to the cross.

So this nation is still taking His word to the world. Blind see deaf hear mute talk lame walk dead rise. What He started has never stopped only grown.
 
Snacks

Snacks

Well-known member
#53
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#53
Niki7 said:
There are at least 8 other people who have negated the thought the US was ever a Christian nation.

Why do you and your friend the snack think you need to give me all your undivided attention? Him I choose to ignore. You defended him which is why you quoted my post as you did. The other dissenters are going to feel left out if you do not give them some of your wisdom and snappy replies.

I don't read NPR. I read and study scripture and I research history and historical papers.

Whatever you think you are digging, I think you need a new shovel.
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@HeIsHere, good luck with this one. Immature, defensive and incorrect is a three-tier wall too dense for my liking. Hopefully your efforts will prove successful.
 
AcceptedintheBeloved

AcceptedintheBeloved

Active member
#54
Mar 23, 2023
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#54
They (people) were first called Christian’s in Antioch, nation’s can’t be Christian. That said America was very Godly in the formation of the country. There is a remnant of the former glory.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#55
Apr 21, 2021
8,420
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#55
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#56
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
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#56
ResidentAlien said:
Anyone can be "Godly." Thomas Jefferson was Godly as he proceeded to rip out of the Bible all the parts he objected to and created his own Bible.

The Life And Morals Of Jesus Of Nazareth (Jefferson Bible) By Thomas Jefferson
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I'd say the Founding American Father's were more Deist than anything else.

Leaders of a people, swindlers of truth, they told the American Church this Freedom would give them religious freedom but the clearly egotistical narcissistic behaviors of the future Leaders used the people of the Churches to create a Nation where they devoted more Reasoning from Voltaire and developed a Nation running off Free Mason Concepts.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#57
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#57
Do you still believe America is a Christian nation?


I never did and it never was.

The Kingdom is a Spiritual one.

John 18:36
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”

No, America is not the Church.
Neither is Rome or Israel.

No, America is not the New Jerusalem come down out of Heaven.

None of the Kingdoms of this present world are on God's side.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#59
May 21, 2022
6,339
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#59
oyster67 said:
Do you still believe America is a Christian nation?


I never did and it never was.

The Kingdom is a Spiritual one.

John 18:36
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”

No, America is not the Church.
Neither is Rome or Israel.

No, America is not the New Jerusalem come down out of Heaven.

None of the Kingdoms of this present world are on God's side.
Click to expand...

Kingdom ≠ Nation

Nation ≠ Church
 
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