Saddleback Church Ousted from Southern Baptist Convention Over Female Pastor

People are idiotic about this kind of thing which leads to lots of female infanticide just cos their firstborn child was female.

Im sorry boys but you dont ALWAYS get to go first. Sometimes it happens that girls are ahead of you.

In matters of this world : wills property etc i totally agree. In matters of the church Gods way is better.

women killing their own

Paul was only wanting order in church and justified his stance by saying Adam was created first then Eve. As a way of explaining to people the order.

But in many families, females are actually born first.

lots of men turn a blind eye though and dont protect their daughters

I think a lot of men dont care what happens to their baby girls. They only want sons.

Ive noticed that many dads will just ignore their daughters and pour all their energy and love into their sons, and even mums do this as well. Nobody seemed to care what happened to Dinah. Shes never mentioned in the patriarchy.

There were the five daughters who petitioned Moses for their inheritance and won it because they had no brothers.

God surely doesnt think less of His children just cos they are girls.

China. 😔 They lifted their "one child law" , female child infanticide, years ago due to loss of life after certain catastrophic events in the country.

I don't know if they reinstituted it of late.

I read some article that says they upped the child count to 3 per couple. They're ramping up to build the 200 million strong army I suppose.

Where did you come up with this idea? And to which culture are you referring? There are some cultures in which this is true, but overall it is not true. Of course, this is totally off topic. China's tyranny knew no bounds in the past, but today Western tyranny is just as evil.

Don't they have a mandatory military service policy for all citizens when they reach a certain age?

Successful Women pastors are a sign of willful spiritual infancy by the congregation...not that the woman pastor is necesarily sinning.

Instead of getting all up in arms because a woman is a successful pastor...why not get some spiritual maturity and be better men?
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PRC has lifted the ban on children and is encouraging people to have more but....it isn't working. It's too expensive to have children in China with their competitive school system. (Meaning tutors and extra school supplies) Plus in China real estate is super expensive in the cities where the jobs are at. Most people can't afford to have a house and children anymore.

Meanwhile the once imposed ban on children has created an imbalance of men to women. There aren't enough women to go around and the dowry has been mostly abandoned.
However....the damage is done and there aren't enough people interested in creating a large family. Creating labor shortages for generations to come.

"Servant" is a relatively generic term, while "deacon" is a specific term. Paul would have no reason to identify Chloe as a mere "servant" if she had no specific responsibility at Cenchrea. A modern equivalent would be "volunteer". If you were commending a fellow believer to people you knew, you wouldn't likely identify that person as a mere "'volunteer' with the South Denver congregation" but you might very well identify a responsible position your friend held in good standing.

The only gender-specific word in those passages is "husband", and that leaves plenty of room for the interpretation that the gender-specificity refers to that clause alone, not to the entire passage. For centuries, male pronouns were used inclusively; now they are used exclusively; but many readers don't recognize that the Bible version they read predates the shift (~1985-2000), and most of the more modern versions are translated by people who learned English before the shift, and who may have brought pre-existing biases to the table.

Yes, but "firstborn male" cannot mean "firstborn female".

That's both shortsighted and insulting. God's calling on a woman has nothing to do with the spiritual maturity of the people surrounding her. Men becoming more mature will not change His calling on her, but it might indicate that she is doing her job well... which would completely undermine your apparent position.

I appreciate the thoughtful response.

There is a long history that I'm only aware of but a small part. I've never been a Southern Baptist, but understand that the convention was made up primarily Bible believers who held to the Baptist distinctives. Very many SBs still are, but under liberal leadership, that percentage is much smaller than previous generations. Rockefeller provided lots of funds to the American Baptist fellowship. In turn, the general view of more of their leadership is beholden to the influences of the past. Just look at the big city churches of the ABs for examples.
I've known a handful of very conservative Bible believing American Baptists locally, so I know they are in plenty in some of those churches. There are certain reasons for them to depart from the wickedness that has been supported by too much of the fellowship. Some stay for a number of reasons. One is that they don't want to lose their church property. Most of the time, it has to do with the pastors lacking spiritual strength. Many are not even Saved.
Rather than uniting, it is Scriptural to separate from the unbelievers' assemblies and churches to be autonomous......I Corinthians 1.

Quite frankly insulting men is poor theology. Infancy? That's an incredible bold insult to levy against God who calls women to preach.


Men who feel that way have the free will to leave the congregation.

Women give birth. There is nothing weak or inferior about our sex.

Paul need not be insulted by such hubris and insensitivity.

Really?
Insulting God?

Every time recorded in scripture that there was a woman preacher there was willful spiritual immaturity and a lack of faith of the people.
God sends a woman to preach as a sign for people to grow up Spiritually. Now exactly how is that insulting God?

How many times have people deliberately forgotten God? The most basic thing about living life and they somehow "forget"?

Sorry, not sorry,
The scriptures are clear on this subject. Just because you two don't know them doesn't mean I'm reversing my stance or that God is suddenly changing from thousands of years of precedent.

It's a sign....a symbol...a public and open display of power that should be a wake-up call for God's people.

Yes, Men should lead...God created them to do so. And if they live the right kind of life they will be good leaders. Not necessarily the kind that scratch itching ears. But good, sound leaders just the same.

We have more sciences to help decipher the scriptures than ever before...but nobody uses them and then deliberately twist the scriptures to mean what they want them to....more than ever before. And for some reason this is not Spiritual immaturity? It definitely sounds like 9 year old child behavior to me.
From the Methodists, COC, SBC, Lutherans, Catholics, AOC, and Independents....ALL have been guilty of this.

The two most ongoing threads are ones on Baptism and Giving(tithes). One because most people who reply on forums aren't Baptized and the other is because every time someone on the forums has gone to church the preacher once again was preaching on giving....one of the most overpreached subjects in this modern age. People don't know much about righteousness but they know everything about giving rules and regulations.

So....yes, women pastors do exist and are successful....and it isn't their fault that they are successful. Nor are they sinning because they are successful. God raised them up because He is trying to get people's attention to a problem. And if people don't get this message they aren't going to like the next one even more.

As usual....God isn't at fault...people are.