Do you observe the Sabbath?

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soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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from Adam to Moses there must have been a law pointing out sin.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,

because death reigned from Adam to Moses = there was a law.

Are you saying that people did not sin from Adam til Moses? not imputed = not made accountable. Why did Jesus need to forgive their sin if they are not accountable. the wages of sin is death so if they are not acountable for sin they are unjustly put to death.
Sin is sin, but it's not about attributing anything to sin and anything under the law, like the Sabbath, like smoking, like things that are not called sin
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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all we need is the grace and mercy of Jesus to be Saved.

But you don't answer this question... Do we continue in sin that grace may abound?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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but, the Torah , with the 10 Commands, were a " statue forever for Israel".

not gentiles. and, not even Israel.
They were given as a shodow of heavenly things..
the Heavenly things have not passed away.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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They were given as a shodow of heavenly things..
the Heavenly things have not passed away.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved,

this is universal,

and no Sabbath required.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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482
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all we need is the grace and mercy of Jesus to be Saved.

But you don't answer this question... Do we continue in sin that grace may abound?
Everyone may have a different understanding. For example, Jesus and his disciples understood, Father, they didn't know what they were doing, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.

Sin is forgiven in their eyes, but it's not a promise to people continue in sin.

We need a deep understanding of God's word and their actions.

My simple understanding is that I can forgive all the SINS that others have committed against me.

As I forgave others, so my Father forgave my transgressions.

That's what I think called the grace and mercy.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Sin is sin, but it's not about attributing anything to sin and anything under the law, like the Sabbath, like smoking, like things that are not called sin
Sin is sin, and it is good to know what is sin.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved,

this is universal,

and no Sabbath required.
Satan believes that Jesus died and knows more about Jesus then we do. Is Satan saved?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,885
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Everyone may have a different understanding. For example, Jesus and his disciples understood, Father, they didn't know what they were doing, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.
As faulty as we are i believe God is merciful about the sins we are condemned of...
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
It isn't about making a perfect standard, it is about who we serve.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Sometimes ignorence means you are free from guilt, but sometimes ignorance means you will suffer like those around you.
God is merciful and a just judge.

Truth will set you free.

The law that tells us we are to travel at a limited speed, is set for our safty and we can't claim ignorace when we brack the law.

Do i continue in sin that grace may abound? No we establish the law.
You may think the sabbath is not required today but i see no evidence of that in the bible.
Jesus did not change the sabbath, and it is mentioned more times then the other commandments in the new testiment.

For the same reason people choose not to murder, i choose not to forget the sabbath.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,885
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As I forgave others, so my Father forgave my transgressions.

That's what I think called the grace and mercy.
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

What did Jesus do....?? He didn't say the law is wrong, but He didn't allow the women to die. perfect plan.
Like the plan of salvation, He was tested ..... remove the law or kill the people. His perfect plan saved both.

Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

First we are forgiven and freed from condemnation and death, (Jesus said Neither do I condemn thee.), then we are told to stop sinning, (Jesus said go, and sin no more).
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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As faulty as we are i believe God is merciful about the sins we are condemned of...
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
It isn't about making a perfect standard, it is about who we serve.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Sometimes ignorence means you are free from guilt, but sometimes ignorance means you will suffer like those around you.
God is merciful and a just judge.

Truth will set you free.

The law that tells us we are to travel at a limited speed, is set for our safty and we can't claim ignorace when we brack the law.

Do i continue in sin that grace may abound? No we establish the law.
You may think the sabbath is not required today but i see no evidence of that in the bible.
Jesus did not change the sabbath, and it is mentioned more times then the other commandments in the new testiment.

For the same reason people choose not to murder, i choose not to forget the sabbath.
Human beings are different in their thoughts because of various factors, but the only common place is that people will choose from the self, so that people will go against the will of God. Like Eve and Adam.

We need to think from God's will then make a choice, not say to God, I can see the The fruit in the middle of the The Garden of Eden.

No one can insist on Sunday off if the richers just wants to make more money.

I think there are many reasons and reasons for the Sabbath, such as not overworking people, such as giving people time to be with their families, etc., but they are all built around God's love and mercy.

But I think the key is to look for and understand the will of God, to care about meaning rather than type.

But what if, after people understand, someone still wants to study and work hard on the Sabbath?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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from Adam to Moses there must have been a law pointing out sin.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,

because death reigned from Adam to Moses = there was a law.

Are you saying that people did not sin from Adam til Moses? not imputed = not made accountable. Why did Jesus need to forgive their sin if they are not accountable. the wages of sin is death so if they are not acountable for sin they are unjustly put to death.
That's the million dollar question.

Sin is not imputed when there is no law. So there must have been a fundamental, spiritual law, that mankind was transgressing.

I wonder what that fundamental, background law was?
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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The Law only affects people who are still alive.

Show me a man who follows the Law and I'll show you a man who does not understand reconciliation to God. It's quite simple.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,884
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The Law only affects people who are still alive.

Show me a man who follows the Law and I'll show you a man who does not understand reconciliation to God. It's quite simple.
Pretty much yep.

Rom 7:1
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,885
1,232
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Australia
But what if, after people understand, someone still wants to study and work hard on the Sabbath?
God will cover all that we lack. We need to repent.
If you know it is Gods will to keep the Sabbath holy and do not do it = sin.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,885
1,232
113
Australia
The Law only affects people who are still alive.

Show me a man who follows the Law and I'll show you a man who does not understand reconciliation to God. It's quite simple.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Show me a man that makes void the law by faith in Gods grace?
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,885
1,232
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Australia
Pretty much yep.

Rom 7:1
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
We have become dead to the law through Christ.
Dead to the penalty and the condemnation of the law.
The death penalty was paid for us...

Do we keep sinning and transgressing the law because the price was paid.

Do we continue to crucify Christ again and again.

Your sins need to be paid for, so do we use the grace of God to continue in sin?.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,885
1,232
113
Australia
Pretty much yep.

Rom 7:1
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
"Serve in newness of the Spirit"..
Rom 6: 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?...
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Shall we sin because of grace? God forbid...
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
God will cover all that we lack. We need to repent.
If you know it is Gods will to keep the Sabbath holy and do not do it = sin.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Six days' toil, and on the seventh day rest. If an American loses his job, can't find a job to pay rent, becomes homeless, is he guilty of not going to work or not being able to work?

Sin or not ?

The law we have, has become love others as yourself.
 

NilsForChrist

Active member
Jan 31, 2023
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I was responding to the statement that anyone promoting the Law is promoting legalism.

Many times Paul refers to the Law when teaching a concept. This is using the Law lawfully. I am only trying to bring attention to the fact that there are many things that we believe and have been taught that are not in accordance with what the Word of Jesus or Paul actually taught.

Soon there will be 2 witnesses giving testimony to the world and many will not believe them because what they speak will not line up with what the churches teach, but they are the true witnesses of GOD calling mankind to repentance for the last time.

I just hope that we will endure their testimony of prophecy, for I believe that they will be addressing the 10 Commandments and the literal keeping of the Sabbath.
I have agreement.