Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

Thank you for another post. If Jesus only died for our past sins, we must live our lives under righteousness of obeying the law. I would say that is an indisputable fact.

I will speak concerning personal experience when young in regard to rest of your post. I was raised in a church, that led me to believe Jesus died for my past sins. The slate was wiped clean if you like at conversion. But after then, I must not sin/break the law or my salvation was in jeopardy. I responded to an altar call when I was ten. Everything then changed. I became aware of my shortcomings/sin, in a most profound way before God. I got angry at times, as kids do. I told some fibs, I did not love others as I should, and all the time I felt bad about these things. But when I reached puberty, my problems magnified tenfold. I had to obey God's laws, or my salvation was in jeapordy. On the outside I could act as Godly as anyone else on Sundays at church. But the inside was a different matter. And sin is sin, whether committed where everyone could see, or whether it was known only to me and God. I feared my impure thoughts when they came, because God's laws must be obeyed, and I was not obeying them on the inside. I was in truth breaking the ten commandments. And, so many people preached if you do not obey God's laws you cannot remain in a saved state. I didn't want to go to hell. But as I believed Jesus only died for my past sins I was heading their fast. And, the more I feared those impure thoughts the worse they got. To use a greek expression, I became full of all manner of concupiscence. The commandments I believed were ordained to life-if I obeyed them, instead brought death/condemnation, for I could not keep them. I ended up utterly sinfull. Looking back, I had felt alive, a normal healthy kid before I made that commitment to God, but not afterwards, for through my knowledge of God's laws, and my belief they must be obeyed to remain in a saved state I believed I was condemned due to my inability to obey them(Rom7:7-11 KJV)

By the law is the knowledge of sin Rom3:20
That is one of the most core biblical tenets.
So, if you have knowledge of sin, because you committed the act of adultery, that law must be in your heart and mind

How would we know that this is wrong
I is apparent to me that my point is not understood. I completely understand what you have related above.

I am not sure why you cannot hear me... hope the LORD makes things clear...

lol,

How did the gentiles know it was wrong. they did not have the law?

How did noah or abraham or people know it was wrong. before the law was given

I am not sure why you can not hear me..I hope the lord makes it clear to you..

Because once Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge everyone instinctively knew right from wrong. However, the basis of the new covenant is clear. God will put his laws in the hearts and minds of his children. So, if you have knowledge of sin in your heart and mind, Gods laws are in your heart and mind. And if only the law of love is in your heart and mind you can only ever be conscious of sin in regard to not loving as you should. Which is no believers reality
By the law is the knowledge of sin Rom3:20

I thought I could hear you. Sorry if I have misunderstood. Could you make it clearer for me. If someone said to you: ''What happens to me if I do not obey the ten commandments'', how would you respond?

romans 3: 20 in context

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God’s Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

The context is as paul said in Gal, the law is a schoolmaster to bring us to christ. It brings to us a knowledge of sin..

I do not go livin gmy life trying to obey the law

I go living my life trying to love and serve others..

if my mind was focused on the law. I would be tempted with all kinds of temptation of sin. Because my mind would be on those sins my flesh loves.

I have noted over the years how many times Paul upholds the Law and refers to it when giving a judgement.

Even reaffirming the blessing of obedience to fifth Commandment, stating that it is the first Commandment with a promise. Eph 6:2

Then he tells Timothy to use All Scripture, mostly including the Law, to teach doctrine, to correct, to rebuke, and to instruct in righteousness. 2 Tim 3:16

I am only advocating to the using of the Law, lawfully and getting back to what Paul and Jesus said on the subject, no more and no less.

I hear many giving their opinions as though their understanding and opinion are equal to the scriptures, even though I have asked to see your doctrine within context in the scriptures.

No one has been able to produce any depth of understanding by bringing the scriptures, and showing cohesively, that what you attest of is the doctrine held by Jesus or the Apostles.

I would say that "Except you repent you may well perish." Go, and sin no more.

I believe that there must be the initial repentance from dead works and then a change in the fundamental creation so that you become a new creation that longs to be led by GOD and to stay in fellowship with Him.

This is what opens the way for an understanding of what God requires of us, by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I think that the fundamental reason for our not understanding is that we begin from 2 different places. You all believe, I think, that the Law is only to show you that you cannot do it.

I believe that the Law is there to show us the heart and will of GOD, and our need for a help and a Saviour.

Once we are in Christ He will guide us by His Spirit to do in our new nature those things that are contained in the Law.

The Law is Holy, Perfect, and Good. The first covenant was faulty in that it was weak through the flesh.

He did not come to take away the Law but the heart of flesh that prevents us from being lead and receiving the things of GOD.

This is my own testimony. I knew nothing about obeying the 10 commandments and as I received Christ and learned to walk in the Spirit I found myself led to obey the 4th command, Which I had already been doing by walking with GOD. But GOD brought me to the day that I fully understood what He was leading me in, and I had a choice.

Once I made the choice to obey with full knowledge, I found that I came into a broad place and blessed more than I imagined.

I hope this makes my side a little clearer. I would love to see all Christians come to understand this very freeing understanding.

I am sorry I was a little curt in my last post.

The law does indeed show us how God wants us to live. And the moral law is holy, just and good. And I do understand what you are saying, but do you really understand the true difference here? Some say now we can obey the ten commandments because we are under a new covenant that enables us to, for we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. And, most who have that view believe if the ten commandments are not obeyed you cannot be in a saved state. But, do people who believe this understand what is involved in obeying the ten commandments? Do they themselves fully obey the law pertaining to the inner man, the law no one but they and God need know they break? Because if they do not, their statements about obeying the ten commandments being possible are false. And, they are insisting of others what they themselves cannot attain to. And I know many people who have become crushed, ended up in a terrible state and had to go to Christian counsellors to seek help. That is the real difference here.

Concerning a Saturday sabbath
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Throught the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

The applicable law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of every born again believer. And that law will convict you of sin to a far greater degree than any law written in ink. That is how I know what is involved in obeying the ten commandments. I understand what that law demands, many do not. I have been convicted of much sin in my life, for you cannot hide from any law in your most inward parts. It will make you conscious of what we may term wilfull sin. But I have never been conscious of sin in regards to failing to set aside saturday as a specific sabbath. I went to a church on a saturday once to please a friend for a while. I saw more flagrant sin concerning the ten commandments in that church than in any other church I had ever been to. People were laughing and joking as they took the Lords name in vain, apparantly unaware they were breaking the ten commandmets they kept insisting all christians must obey. I was literally stunned, it was different world of christianity to the one I know. One woman who kept insisting the ten commandments must be obeyed, I found out was having multiple affairs, some overlapping. Of course, I have only been to two churches on a saturday, but in both a theme developed. People were breaking the ten commandments without realising they were doing so. Just as people today believe they obey the ten commandments without realising they are not obeying them. I have not wished to offend, but this is a most serious subject that has had dire reprocussions for many, so I believe I must be completely honest in speaking of my personal experiences

Yes, the law as we all understand law to naturally mean is a schoolmaster that brings us to Christ.
Your con-text is wrong BTW
Sin is(not was) the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Therefore:
By the law is(not was) the knowledge of sin. Rom3:20

You are trying to argue against one of the most core biblical tenets there is!

The law comes in two parts, what is written in the law and the attached penalty for transgression, that is the way we all naturally understand law to mean, and that was the schoolmaster. That system of law is abolished for the believer. Now listen well, Paul tells us the law is holy just and good(Rom7:12) he is referring to the moral law in that statement for that is what the chapter refers to. God did not have to abolish what is holy, just and good to end righteousness of obeying the law. He sent Jesus to die for our sins, or, he sent Jesus to die for your transgressions of the law, and thereby end righteousness of obeying the law. So it does not matter how many of Gods laws are in your heart and mind, Jesus has you covered. He died for your transgressions concerning them. The core of the new covenant explains this. The law is put in your heart and mind, but at the same time that happens, you get a saviour from your transgressions of the law, your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more.
So what does it mean to have the law in your heart? It simply means you in your heart want to live your life according to what is holy, just and good. You in your heart do not want to murder, steal, commit adultery, bear false witness etc. Is that such a bad thing in your view? So why did God put the law in your heart? Because you, along with every other person on this earth is inherently sinfull. You desire to live according to your own particular standards-not Gods. So, the only people who get a saviour from sin, are those who in their hearts want to live according to what is holy, just and good, for Christ will not be the saviour from sin of anyone else. Therefore, God put his laws in your heart so you could have a saviour from your sin. That law cannot condemn you, for Jesus died for your transgressions of the law.
The law as we all understand law to mean is for those Paul described in 1Tim1. That system of law has been abolished for the believer.

As I don’t like too long posts I will address the rest of your post here. I agree, we do not spend our lives striving to obey the law in our hearts and minds, that is not how to see obedience reflected in us. And you are correct, if you focus on the law as such all the time, you are going to be tempted greatly to break it/sin. There is a far better way to live an evermore Holy life. The Christian looks away from themselves and to Christ, trusting Him through the Spirit to evermore bring them to live as they in their heart want to live, for they in their hearts want to live according to what is holy, just and good, for that is where the law now is. . The more they look to Christ and trust him, the more the fruits of the Spirit grow in their life. What does this produce?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Gal5:22
The fruits of the Spirit will not bring you into conflict with the law in your heart and mind, for the fruits of the Spirit are the embodiment of how God wants you to live. Therefore, against that fruit there is no law.

It might sound great to say the only law in your heart and mind is the law of love. However, that is no ones reality. For Christians are not solely conscious of sin in regard to not loving as they should.
I will repeat, you can be conscious of sin through the law without being under righteousness of obeying the law, for Jesus died for your transgressions of the law/your sin

Hopefully again, According To God's Word Of Truth, The Scriptures, while
making sure we ourselves are humble, submitting "our bodies a living
sacrifice" (Rom 12:1-2), and then lifting them up in prayer (Eph 6:18):

2Ti_2:25 "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God
Peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth"

All I know is I have tried to share the scriptures, within context, and asked that others would do the same to correct any error they may see in what I have shared.

It concerns me when there is a rejection of considering truth when it is based on the experience of one, two or a few people.

I do not mean to come across as I have all the answers. I am simply trying to bring to the table the Truth I have found to be life and to expose the errors that have crept into Christendom.

All I have asked is for an honest consideration of the scriptures I have shared and to see if there is error in my understanding. I am willing to stand corrected, but by the Word.

The Sabbath is a God-commanded day off (once a week), but as Jesus clearly showed several times, it is subject to a higher law of faith, kindness, and forgiveness.

The main distinction between the Sabbath and the dietary laws would be that the Sabbath can found in Genesis, the other laws cannot. See Genesis 9.

Busy couple of weeks for me...

What I've posted of your quote in red is the root of the error.

Exodus 19:3-8
3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.


The Mt. Sinai Covenant was agreed upon BEFORE THE LAW WAS GIVEN. It was then ratified three days later with the giving of the law and shedding of blood.


The subject of that agreement was obedience to The Almighty to receive a benefit from the Almighty.

The object of the agreement was The law.

The Law wasn't created by the covenant.

The Law wasn't the covenant.

The covenant was the marriage agreement between two parties regarding obedience. The term of the agreement was to "obey God and be blessed". The Law existed outside of the covenant, immutable, eternal, and everpresent. In fact, The Law is The Word.


Jeremiah 31:31-33
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Point 1 - It was a marriage contract, evident by the language "I was a husband to them"

Point 2 - The SAME law is the object of this new promise, once on the outside of Israel copied onto stone, and would be written on the inside of them.

Point 3 - Notice that in the new testament, language changes to "Christ in our hearts" as a fulfillment of Jeremiah's new testament as opposed to "law in their hearts".


Christ is The Law. Christ is The Word of God.

----

In the beginning, was The Word...

...A covenant was made to obey "God's Voice", and made BEFORE ANY WORD WAS SPOKEN...

...The Word was spoken to the people, but they couldn't handle hearing His Voice...

...so a copy of His Words was written on stone...

...Israel broke the covenant/agreement...

...So Moses broke The Word in stone...

...A promise was given to make a new covenant where He puts His words on the inside...

...The Word was made flesh...

...The Word provided true interpretation ("how does this man understand these letters")...

...The Word told the people to obey Him and live and that the commandments are the path to eternal life...

...The Word in the flesh was broken...

...The new covenant was activated as The Word entered into believers' hearts.

-----

The Law is The Word of God...and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If you say that The Law was encompassed within the covenant then you are also saying that The Word and the covenant are the same; that when the first covenant became obsolete so did The Word of God. This can not be true.

Context is very important.

Paul's message regarding "bewitching" in Galatians specifically has to do with the sacrificial laws put in place to remedy sin after it is committed; that they were always a placeholder until the One came whose job it was to actually do those tasks. Once He started doing those tasks it's no longer required to do them as placeholders.

Can you share with me the passage that teaches or preaches that it is impossible to adhere to the law?

The statement of "being released from the law" in Romans 7 has to do with the law of marriage that binds a husband and spouse together in matrimony: if two parties divorce and marry others they can't return to remarry each other as long as they live else that's adultery. only death releases them from the law of marriage. Paul was speaking to those who understand the law so it necessitates studying it to make sure we don't mix up Paul's words here.