Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thanking him wouldn't be enough I would not just praise him but I would swear to them to bring him honor and glory
But I don't want unless I have earned it I want his favor not just a miracle and his favor is not something just given out when we are saved it is something earned and the favor of a king is not something to be taken lightly.
My purpose is to sow into the kingdom and devote myself to his will if he says do this I say it will be done if he says to say something I say ok lets go and this is all I care about right now whenever my eyes are healed is up to him but if the king gives you a blessing and it is one that was earned the meaning of that blessing changes
But I don't want unless I have earned it I want his favor not just a miracle and his favor is not something just given out when we are saved it is something earned and the favor of a king is not something to be taken lightly.
My purpose is to sow into the kingdom and devote myself to his will if he says do this I say it will be done if he says to say something I say ok lets go and this is all I care about right now whenever my eyes are healed is up to him but if the king gives you a blessing and it is one that was earned the meaning of that blessing changes
Isaiah 30:
15 For the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel, has said:
“By repentance and rest
you would be saved;
your strength would lie in quiet confidence—
God Will Be Gracious
18 Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you;
therefore He rises to show you compassion,
for the LORD is a just God.
Blessed are all who wait for Him.
15 For the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel, has said:
“By repentance and rest
you would be saved;
your strength would lie in quiet confidence—
God Will Be Gracious
18 Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you;
therefore He rises to show you compassion,
for the LORD is a just God.
Blessed are all who wait for Him.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
1Tim 4:1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
you know I dont know what you were trying to attempt here as this is a pretty pathetic attempt here but I dont see anything here about losing salvation I see losing faith and if your honest with yourself you fall in faith all the time everytime you doubt and dont trust God every time you sin faith in Christ is to be without sin but man that is a brutal reality yet he forgives us everytime doesnt he? Peter fell in faith three times and he did it hard he denied knowing Jesus three times if you understand the gravity of what he did you would be grateful not to be him yet look how highly Jesus spoke of him.
And yeah many have fallen in faith and pastors happen to be a part of it now I want you to look at this again and imagine the spiritual leaders and check off everything that fits the bill
This seems to have a theme faith is a spiritual state a connection with the kingdom this scripture has nothing to do with salvation look again
And yeah many have fallen in faith and pastors happen to be a part of it now I want you to look at this again and imagine the spiritual leaders and check off everything that fits the bill
This seems to have a theme faith is a spiritual state a connection with the kingdom this scripture has nothing to do with salvation look again
Biiig difference in falling(stumbling) in our faith to falling away (totally) from it.
Falling away:
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
depart, fall away, refrain, withdraw self.
From apo and histemi; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc. -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apo and histémi
Definition
to lead away, to depart from
NASB Translation
abstain (1), depart (1), departed (1), deserted (1), drew away (1), fall away (2), falls away (1), leave (1), left (2), let go (1), stay away (1), withdrew (1).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
1. transitively, in present, imperfect, future, 1 aorist active, to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove; tropically, to excite to revolt: Acts 5:37 (ἀπέστησε λαόν ... ὀπίσω αὐτοῦ drew away after him; τινα ἀπό τίνος, Deuteronomy 7:4, and in Greek writings from Herodotus 1, 76 down).
2. intransitively, in perfect, pluperfect, 2 aorist active, to stand off, stand aloof, in various senses (as in Greek writings) according to the context: ἀπό with the genitive of person to go away, depart, from anyone, Luke 13:27 (from Psalm 6:9; cf. Matthew 7:23 ἀποχωρεῖτε ἀπ' ἐμοῦ); Acts 12:10; Acts 19:9; to desert, withdraw from, one, Acts 15:38; to cease to vex one, Luke 4:13; Acts 5:38; Acts 22:29; 2 Corinthians 12:8; to fall away, become faithless, ἀπό Θεοῦ, Hebrews 3:12; to shun, flee from, ἀπό τῆς ἀδικίας, 2 Timothy 2:19. Middle, to withdraw oneself from: absolutely, to fall away, Luke 8:13; (τῆς πίστεως, 1 Timothy 4:1, cf. Winers Grammar, 427, 428 (398)); to keep oneself away from, absent oneself from, Luke 2:37 (οὐκ ἀφίστατο ἀπό (T Tr WH omit ἀπό) τοῦ ἱεροῦ, she was in the temple every day); from anyone's society or fellowship, 1 Timothy 6:5 Rec.
I hope that wasn't too pathethic for you.
Falling away:
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
depart, fall away, refrain, withdraw self.
From apo and histemi; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc. -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apo and histémi
Definition
to lead away, to depart from
NASB Translation
abstain (1), depart (1), departed (1), deserted (1), drew away (1), fall away (2), falls away (1), leave (1), left (2), let go (1), stay away (1), withdrew (1).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
1. transitively, in present, imperfect, future, 1 aorist active, to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove; tropically, to excite to revolt: Acts 5:37 (ἀπέστησε λαόν ... ὀπίσω αὐτοῦ drew away after him; τινα ἀπό τίνος, Deuteronomy 7:4, and in Greek writings from Herodotus 1, 76 down).
2. intransitively, in perfect, pluperfect, 2 aorist active, to stand off, stand aloof, in various senses (as in Greek writings) according to the context: ἀπό with the genitive of person to go away, depart, from anyone, Luke 13:27 (from Psalm 6:9; cf. Matthew 7:23 ἀποχωρεῖτε ἀπ' ἐμοῦ); Acts 12:10; Acts 19:9; to desert, withdraw from, one, Acts 15:38; to cease to vex one, Luke 4:13; Acts 5:38; Acts 22:29; 2 Corinthians 12:8; to fall away, become faithless, ἀπό Θεοῦ, Hebrews 3:12; to shun, flee from, ἀπό τῆς ἀδικίας, 2 Timothy 2:19. Middle, to withdraw oneself from: absolutely, to fall away, Luke 8:13; (τῆς πίστεως, 1 Timothy 4:1, cf. Winers Grammar, 427, 428 (398)); to keep oneself away from, absent oneself from, Luke 2:37 (οὐκ ἀφίστατο ἀπό (T Tr WH omit ἀπό) τοῦ ἱεροῦ, she was in the temple every day); from anyone's society or fellowship, 1 Timothy 6:5 Rec.
I hope that wasn't too pathethic for you.
-
1
- Show all
He does when he serious. Dont forget who he is he is a God of love and mercy but can also be frustrated with his children and usually when you dont listen to him you get a spanking.
He isnt the kind of father you want to test his patience that is a bad idea and believe me it took me going through hell to be brought to his feet and finally shut up and listen.
He isnt playing around anymore and you know every person in scripture who he used to voive himself didnt do it by normal means either we dont need normalthat isnt the kingdom No one else would step up and he called me I said yes lets go and I got results but it all began with complete surrender unto him to make him my Lord above anything else yeilding my freewill unto him declaring that I am not my own his will be done I swore my allegance to his every whim not sometimes but as the core of my bieng in anything I do whatever I am I only have this to say his will be done and let his kingdom come
So quite frankly I dont care how you think he opperates if I seem fiery then good I got your attention didn't I? now think about how fiery he must be? Where do you think the tone of what I have said came from? He is sick of games either shut up and listen or miss out on knowing his true glory and wonder and I would hurry if I were you
He isnt the kind of father you want to test his patience that is a bad idea and believe me it took me going through hell to be brought to his feet and finally shut up and listen.
He isnt playing around anymore and you know every person in scripture who he used to voive himself didnt do it by normal means either we dont need normalthat isnt the kingdom No one else would step up and he called me I said yes lets go and I got results but it all began with complete surrender unto him to make him my Lord above anything else yeilding my freewill unto him declaring that I am not my own his will be done I swore my allegance to his every whim not sometimes but as the core of my bieng in anything I do whatever I am I only have this to say his will be done and let his kingdom come
So quite frankly I dont care how you think he opperates if I seem fiery then good I got your attention didn't I? now think about how fiery he must be? Where do you think the tone of what I have said came from? He is sick of games either shut up and listen or miss out on knowing his true glory and wonder and I would hurry if I were you
Biiig difference in falling(stumbling) in our faith to falling away (totally) from it.
Falling away:
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
depart, fall away, refrain, withdraw self.
From apo and histemi; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc. -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apo and histémi
Definition
to lead away, to depart from
NASB Translation
abstain (1), depart (1), departed (1), deserted (1), drew away (1), fall away (2), falls away (1), leave (1), left (2), let go (1), stay away (1), withdrew (1).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
1. transitively, in present, imperfect, future, 1 aorist active, to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove; tropically, to excite to revolt: Acts 5:37 (ἀπέστησε λαόν ... ὀπίσω αὐτοῦ drew away after him; τινα ἀπό τίνος, Deuteronomy 7:4, and in Greek writings from Herodotus 1, 76 down).
2. intransitively, in perfect, pluperfect, 2 aorist active, to stand off, stand aloof, in various senses (as in Greek writings) according to the context: ἀπό with the genitive of person to go away, depart, from anyone, Luke 13:27 (from Psalm 6:9; cf. Matthew 7:23 ἀποχωρεῖτε ἀπ' ἐμοῦ); Acts 12:10; Acts 19:9; to desert, withdraw from, one, Acts 15:38; to cease to vex one, Luke 4:13; Acts 5:38; Acts 22:29; 2 Corinthians 12:8; to fall away, become faithless, ἀπό Θεοῦ, Hebrews 3:12; to shun, flee from, ἀπό τῆς ἀδικίας, 2 Timothy 2:19. Middle, to withdraw oneself from: absolutely, to fall away, Luke 8:13; (τῆς πίστεως, 1 Timothy 4:1, cf. Winers Grammar, 427, 428 (398)); to keep oneself away from, absent oneself from, Luke 2:37 (οὐκ ἀφίστατο ἀπό (T Tr WH omit ἀπό) τοῦ ἱεροῦ, she was in the temple every day); from anyone's society or fellowship, 1 Timothy 6:5 Rec.
I hope that wasn't too pathethic for you.
Falling away:
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
depart, fall away, refrain, withdraw self.
From apo and histemi; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc. -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apo and histémi
Definition
to lead away, to depart from
NASB Translation
abstain (1), depart (1), departed (1), deserted (1), drew away (1), fall away (2), falls away (1), leave (1), left (2), let go (1), stay away (1), withdrew (1).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
1. transitively, in present, imperfect, future, 1 aorist active, to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove; tropically, to excite to revolt: Acts 5:37 (ἀπέστησε λαόν ... ὀπίσω αὐτοῦ drew away after him; τινα ἀπό τίνος, Deuteronomy 7:4, and in Greek writings from Herodotus 1, 76 down).
2. intransitively, in perfect, pluperfect, 2 aorist active, to stand off, stand aloof, in various senses (as in Greek writings) according to the context: ἀπό with the genitive of person to go away, depart, from anyone, Luke 13:27 (from Psalm 6:9; cf. Matthew 7:23 ἀποχωρεῖτε ἀπ' ἐμοῦ); Acts 12:10; Acts 19:9; to desert, withdraw from, one, Acts 15:38; to cease to vex one, Luke 4:13; Acts 5:38; Acts 22:29; 2 Corinthians 12:8; to fall away, become faithless, ἀπό Θεοῦ, Hebrews 3:12; to shun, flee from, ἀπό τῆς ἀδικίας, 2 Timothy 2:19. Middle, to withdraw oneself from: absolutely, to fall away, Luke 8:13; (τῆς πίστεως, 1 Timothy 4:1, cf. Winers Grammar, 427, 428 (398)); to keep oneself away from, absent oneself from, Luke 2:37 (οὐκ ἀφίστατο ἀπό (T Tr WH omit ἀπό) τοῦ ἱεροῦ, she was in the temple every day); from anyone's society or fellowship, 1 Timothy 6:5 Rec.
I hope that wasn't too pathethic for you.
Your just using the same boring tactics so many use and your confidence in what you thought was wise is a huge folly. Truth isn't complicated Jesus is truth the word of God is truth your mindset requires you to rope in all kinds of things to try to disprove or debate now look at what mindset Jesus had he spoke the truth of heaven and the kingdom he even went so far as to speak in their ways and customs so they would better undrstand
Do a study on what faith is and leave preconcieved thoughts on the matter behind if you want to know truth expect it but see the mindset you have right now sickens me it reminds me of a spider web
I didn't post those things to prove my point. I usually have 2 reasons:
1. To get someone to turn around on their doctrine for their good.
2. To convince others reading not to believe what they stated to keep them from believing their doctrine.
I hope for the first, then strive for the second.
With what you said above, I lost the first, but you helped me with your graceless reply to gain the second.
I will not argue about it, nor vengefully respond to it.
You helped me in the end, so thank you.
1. To get someone to turn around on their doctrine for their good.
2. To convince others reading not to believe what they stated to keep them from believing their doctrine.
I hope for the first, then strive for the second.
With what you said above, I lost the first, but you helped me with your graceless reply to gain the second.
I will not argue about it, nor vengefully respond to it.
You helped me in the end, so thank you.
Is it now? Look I dont know who he is to you but that is my Jesus that is my king who I revere you better believe i;m going to be offended by people who dont appreciate what he ddid they have no idea the gravity of what he and what he went through.
Did he purchase you with his blood or not? Are you his and his alone or not? you think this has anything to do with you? I would hope not because that would mean you havent given him ownership and you havent fully devoted yourself to him.
You are not your own
Did he purchase you with his blood or not? Are you his and his alone or not? you think this has anything to do with you? I would hope not because that would mean you havent given him ownership and you havent fully devoted yourself to him.
You are not your own
-
1
- Show all
Hi Edify, I haven't really follow the conversation but on your points...
1) There are very few times I have experienced people turning away from their doctrines. Never on CC, but I have experienced it in real life. I think on the internet everybody is here to share their truths and you will very seldom (if ever) get people to change on the internet.
2) Doctrine is difficult because we grow up in church, or attend a church and that is what we run with.
1) There are very few times I have experienced people turning away from their doctrines. Never on CC, but I have experienced it in real life. I think on the internet everybody is here to share their truths and you will very seldom (if ever) get people to change on the internet.
2) Doctrine is difficult because we grow up in church, or attend a church and that is what we run with.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Not the case with me. I kept bailing and bailing on Churches because the doctrines were not up to par. Or in some cases total wreckage.
In fact this is still the case to this present day. Female pastors? Nope. Worldly Churches? Nope. Amillennialism? Nope. Bye bye.
Trying to find a premillenial pre-trib male pastor Church is far more difficult than it sounds. Actually, finding a Church whose pastor is not the corrupted product of liberal unbelieving seminaries is a major chore.
In fact this is still the case to this present day. Female pastors? Nope. Worldly Churches? Nope. Amillennialism? Nope. Bye bye.
Trying to find a premillenial pre-trib male pastor Church is far more difficult than it sounds. Actually, finding a Church whose pastor is not the corrupted product of liberal unbelieving seminaries is a major chore.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
[QUOTE="
I will not argue about it, nor vengefully respond to it.
You helped me in the end, so thank you.[/QUOTE]
I will not argue about it, nor vengefully respond to it.
You helped me in the end, so thank you
This right here is impressive particularly you saying you will not argue or do a vengful responcethis is what I am looking for in this place even though I did not hold back you had the poise to respond correctly my fire met your water
Regardless of anything spoken you have impressed me but you know doctrine is the whole issue we call our different understanding of the word of God doctrine er have sect of churches that further divide us and everyone thinks they know the truth and that their doctrine is right or whatever but if we really knew the truth then why so much confusion?
See that isnt good enoughHe isnt the author of confusion he is truth and truth alone no confusion no tricks simply truth and if we really think the bible is the word of God then shouldnt we teart it as if he is speaking or is it really the word of God to us? The spirit speaks to the spirit the spirit of truth is the only spirit we should have yet we seem to have a spirit
I will not argue about it, nor vengefully respond to it.
You helped me in the end, so thank you.[/QUOTE]
I will not argue about it, nor vengefully respond to it.
You helped me in the end, so thank you
This right here is impressive particularly you saying you will not argue or do a vengful responcethis is what I am looking for in this place even though I did not hold back you had the poise to respond correctly my fire met your water
Regardless of anything spoken you have impressed me but you know doctrine is the whole issue we call our different understanding of the word of God doctrine er have sect of churches that further divide us and everyone thinks they know the truth and that their doctrine is right or whatever but if we really knew the truth then why so much confusion?
See that isnt good enoughHe isnt the author of confusion he is truth and truth alone no confusion no tricks simply truth and if we really think the bible is the word of God then shouldnt we teart it as if he is speaking or is it really the word of God to us? The spirit speaks to the spirit the spirit of truth is the only spirit we should have yet we seem to have a spirit
Yes, it is not only offensive, but indicates an ignorance of the meaning of salvation, when anyone comes along and talks about losing their salvation. The Bible is very clear:
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:11-13)
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:11-13)
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I agree. I believe it's usually the different types of folks on here. Not everyone comes here for a righteous cause.
Agreed. I have been humiliated before by someone posting a truth I didn't believe & discovered I was wrong. The didn't mean to humiliate me, but it can be very humbling to find out we're totally wrong.
Agreed. I have been humiliated before by someone posting a truth I didn't believe & discovered I was wrong. The didn't mean to humiliate me, but it can be very humbling to find out we're totally wrong.
-
1
-
1
- Show all