Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
SonLight_Wolf said:
You can stop the search because no such verse(s) exist.

Once you are born again and all that that entails it is eternal.

No matter what works salvationists say. You are saved by God.
God is not a man that he should lie.
Works salvation is the falsehood of man and ego. Not of God.

Find peace. You can't lose what God chose you for.
Click to expand...


That is very true.


God's people who believe that they are saved by their good works are correct, but it is not eternal salvation.

Salvation=deliverance, saved=delivered, save=deliver, according to Strong's concordance.

There is a one time eternal deliverance, which was accomplished by Jesus sacrifice, to redeem all of those that his Father gave him, as an offering to God, and not to mankind.

There are many deliverances for the born again children of God, byu their good works, as they sojourn here on earth.
 
mailmandan said:
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) they have faith, but they have no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Faith "alone" here refers to an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works, as we see in James 2:14. SAYS/CLAIMS to have faith - key word. *Not to be confuse with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
Click to expand...
Beautiful exegesis bro......(y)
 
Runningman said:
The Bible is clear the sins of the father aren’t inherited genetically or spiritually.
Click to expand...


All of mankind, after Adam, were born into this world, having our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were, by nature, the children of wrath, even as others. (Eph 2:5)., even babies.
 
mailmandan said:
Of course you disagree because you teach salvation by works in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) they have faith, but they have no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Faith "alone" here refers to an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works, as we see in James 2:14. SAYS/CLAIMS to have faith - key word. *Not to be confuse with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. That is crystal clear.

The faith of Abraham was faith. Works followed as the demonstrative evidence of his faith, yet faith is still faith and works are still works. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith that is alive and not dead, yet works are not the essence of faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.

Yes I do as do all genuine believers.

Salvation by works is not the will of the Father. (Matthew 7:22-23) John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Are you ready to believe?
Click to expand...

you’re a theologian so I know you have no problem making the Bible say anything you need it to say.

Do you believe your faith without works is dead like James said? Yes or no.
 
mailmandan said:
Faith "alone" here refers to an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works, as we see in James 2:14. SAYS/CLAIMS to have faith - key word. *Not to be confuse with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
Click to expand...


Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that is given in the new spiritual birth. The born again child of God's faith can be responsible for salvations (deliverances-Strong's concordance) as he sojourns here in this world, but not his eternal deliverance.
 
Heavy sigh at this ongoing debate. Can it be both..

HE and only He is our Salvation, let's keep abiding in His truth. Let's endure, knowing He is Faithful.

Let's just praise His Holy Name and Give Him all the Glory, never taking our responsibility lightly to endure!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Everlasting-Grace
Underwhosewings said:
“Ye must be born again “
Click to expand...
This is true. The natural man is hostile toward God and God's enemy, a slave to sin, and unable to please God. There are none righteous, no not one! In such a state (which everyone starts out in) they are need of salvation in order to be reconciled to God, which the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ made possible, purposed from before the foundation of the world. It boggles the mind that any can say the Bible does not teach this. Front to back, beginning to end, the Bible teaches of humanity's lack, and humanity's need of that which only Jesus Christ can provide.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rosemaryx
mailmandan said:
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Are you ready to believe?
Click to expand...


And verse 39 tells us who will look to the Son and believe in him, and it is those which God hath given him.
 
mailmandan said:
Empty profession of faith/dead faith is exactly what James is writing about. Says/claims (key word) to have faith, but has no works. Can that faith save him? (James 2:14) Faith that is alive in Christ saves and will be utilized (Ephesians 2:5-10) but not a bare profession of faith.
Click to expand...

A born again child of God's faith, with works, can deliver him, as he sojourns here in this world, but not eternally. Save=deliver, according to Strong's concordance.
 
CharliRenee said:
Heavy sigh at this ongoing debate. Can it be both..
Click to expand...
Good morning Renee :) I hope you are well :D

I am wondering what you mean by saying, "can it be both"?

Both what? Could you please clarify?

PS~ such is the nature of apologetics: everything keeps being discussed, again, and again, and again. It has been going on for centuries, and the internet has made it possible for more to participate in the ongoing debate concerning man's greatest need. It is not about to end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThewindBlows
Magenta said:
This is true. The natural man is hostile toward God and God's enemy, a slave to sin, and unable to please God. There are none righteous, no not one! In such a state (which everyone starts out in) they are need of salvation in order to be reconciled to God, which the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ made possible, purposed from before the foundation of the world. It boggles the mind that any can say the Bible does not teach this. Front to back, beginning to end, the Bible teaches of humanity's lack, and humanity's need of that which only Jesus Christ can provide.
Click to expand...


Christ's blood on the cross covered all of those that his father gave him, in redeeming them from their sins. Not just making it possible.

If he shed his blood for all mankind, then his blood would be a failure to those who are not born again, and are going to hell.

I believe the scriptures to teach that Christ's blood was effective in redeeming all of those that His Father gave him. Christ is not a failure.
 
ForestGreenCook said:
Christ's blood on the cross covered all of those that his father gave him, in redeeming them from their sins. Not just making it possible.

If he shed his blood for all mankind, then his blood would be a failure to those who are not born again, and are going to hell.

I believe the scriptures to teach that Christ's blood was effective in redeeming all of those that His Father gave him. Christ is not a failure.
Click to expand...
You do err in saying Jesus' sacrifice was a failure if all are not saved by His shed righteous blood,
since you always leave the need for faith out of your equation, and even say those without faith
are saved. Christ died for the sins of the whole world... a sacrifice which was abundantly sufficient
to cover every single sin of every single person (except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as per
His own words), but efficacious and applied only to those who believe. His sacrifice did make it
possible for us to be reconciled to God and escape the second death. I will proclaim this despite your denial.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cv5
Magenta said:
Good morning Renee :) I hope you are well :D

I am wondering what you mean by saying, "can it be both"?

Both what? Could you please clarify?

PS~ such is the nature of apologetics: everything keeps being discussed again, and again, and again. It has been going on for centuries, and the internet has made it possible for more to participate in the ongoing debate concerning man's greatest need. It is not about to end.
Click to expand...

Hey you, so good to see you, Magenta. Hugs.

Thank you for helping me see this ongoing debate as a good thing, especially when you said man's greatest need. I love apologetics, wanted to be an an apologist at one time, in fact. I admire those who have taken the time to study in great detail and those willing to discuss others take. Coming together to reason is a good thing, if does so in a manor that Glorifies Him.

However, my tendency to conclude with a third option doesn't seem to work, lol. Plus, I am too nonconfrontational to be any good at such endeavors. God clearly wants other things for me, or so I believe < see I did it again, lol. You know me, lol.

I feel like all His verses line up with His one truth and until we find harmony in ALL the scriptures, we need to keep going back to the ultimate drawing board, Him and His word.

I guess that on this topic, it seems like it justs around and around because it is both, to me.

He is our Salvation, He is our "Keeper" but He also gives us the joy and responsibility of choosing Him and His Will, daily, picking up the cross. He keeps us on our toes. Thank You Lord. He wants us to rest in Him but be diligent in our day to day walk. I mean, there are verse after verse, like in Jeremiah that says He put fear in our hearts so that we will continue to serve, and also many verses about enduring. I believe He knows how easily swayed our inclinations are, so He has given us tools and yes even responsibilities to keep us keeping on.

With that said, He watches us as we go in and out of His pasture. He knows our steps and guides us. I mean, He calls us to endure, and that doesn't oppose that He and only He keeps us. To me, it just points to it even more. He is our Salvation and He created us with the privilege to choose to serve Him. each and every day.

Does this make sense?
 
CharliRenee said:
Hey you, so good to see you, Magenta. Hugs.

Thank you for helping me see this ongoing debate as a good thing, especially when you said man's greatest need. I love apologetics, wanted to be an an apologist at one time, in fact. I admire those who have taken the time to study in great detail and those willing to discuss others take. Coming together to reason is a good thing, if does so in a manor that Glorifies Him.

However, my tendency to conclude with a third option doesn't seem to work, lol. Plus, I am too nonconfrontational to be any good at such endeavors. God clearly wants other things for me, or so I believe < see I did it again, lol. You know me, lol.

I feel like all His verses line up with His one truth and until we find harmony in ALL the scriptures, we need to keep going back to the ultimate drawing board, Him and His word.

I guess that on this topic, it seems like it just around and around because it is both, to me.

He is our Salvation, He is our "Keeper" but He also gives us the joy and responsibility of choosing Him and His Will, daily, picking up the cross. He keeps us on our toes. Thank You Lord. He wants us to rest in Him but be diligent in our day to day walk. I mean, there are verse after verse, like in Jeremiah that says He put fear in our hearts so that we will continue to serve, and also many verses about enduring. I believe He knows how easily swayed our inclinations are, so He has given us tools and yes even responsibilities to keep us keeping on.

With that said, He watches us as we go in and out of His pasture. He knows our steps and guides us. I mean, He calls us to endure, and that doesn't oppose that He and only He keeps us. To me, it just points to it even more. He is our Salvation and He created us with the privilege to choose to serve Him. each and every day.

Does this make sense?
Click to expand...
How we each walk out the calling of our salvation is uniquely tailored to each person. Only God can see clearly at all times the beginning, and the end. In the meantime, we endure, as you say, as we live out the middle. You have a unique talent for sharing your heart, and are dearly loved for that quality. My blessing is perhaps not so obvious. You say you are non-confrontational, and yet I have seen you rise up like a bear to defend God's Word or a person suffering and in need. I get that being bearish it is not your normal mode, but still you are capable.

Renee, in my past life I went to great lengths to avoid confrontation. My life became so ensnared in sin and degenerated into addiction, alcoholism, drug overdoses, etc, because I felt so ill-equipped to deal with life on life's terms; I could not face the harsh realities of life, nor speak my truths for fear of hurting other people's feelings. Arriving at the brink of death repeatedly due to such an inability is no way to live life, ya know? In such a state, I realized eventually that due to constant fear of rejection and abandonment, I could not tell the truth if my life depended on it. Then I realized that my life did depend on my ability to tell the truth. Truth, Pilate asked. What is truth? The circumstances of our lives devoid of God's principles and Christ's love... what can or does it all mean aside from Him?

The search for meaning and purpose is ages old, but still, how are we to interpret all these things which go into the making of ourselves? I spent many years listening to people articulate their truths, their joys, their sorrows, their challenges, and their triumphs, and their understanding of God even as I was still in rebellion against Him, and running from Him, because listening helped me come to a better understanding and acceptance of myself. And then I finally surrendered my life to Christ. I do not speak of my profound experiences of God often, because they are my pearls, but these experiences initially helped me turn my life around, and then they ultimately turned it upside down, and completely transformed how I spend my time. I am am still not good with confrontation, but I am fierce in my defence of the Truth of God's Word, and count it a blessing that I have been graced with some measure of understanding, and I thank God for that, for all else pales in comparison to knowing Him.
 
CharliRenee said:
Hey you, so good to see you, Magenta. Hugs.

Thank you for helping me see this ongoing debate as a good thing, especially when you said man's greatest need. I love apologetics, wanted to be an an apologist at one time, in fact. I admire those who have taken the time to study in great detail and those willing to discuss others take. Coming together to reason is a good thing, if does so in a manor that Glorifies Him.

However, my tendency to conclude with a third option doesn't seem to work, lol. Plus, I am too nonconfrontational to be any good at such endeavors. God clearly wants other things for me, or so I believe < see I did it again, lol. You know me, lol.

I feel like all His verses line up with His one truth and until we find harmony in ALL the scriptures, we need to keep going back to the ultimate drawing board, Him and His word.

I guess that on this topic, it seems like it justs around and around because it is both, to me.

He is our Salvation, He is our "Keeper" but He also gives us the joy and responsibility of choosing Him and His Will, daily, picking up the cross. He keeps us on our toes. Thank You Lord. He wants us to rest in Him but be diligent in our day to day walk. I mean, there are verse after verse, like in Jeremiah that says He put fear in our hearts so that we will continue to serve, and also many verses about enduring. I believe He knows how easily swayed our inclinations are, so He has given us tools and yes even responsibilities to keep us keeping on.

With that said, He watches us as we go in and out of His pasture. He knows our steps and guides us. I mean, He calls us to endure, and that doesn't oppose that He and only He keeps us. To me, it just points to it even more. He is our Salvation and He created us with the privilege to choose to serve Him. each and every day.

Does this make sense?
Click to expand...
Hey sis. Good to see you. Been awhile!!

I think this issue of why this debate keeps going on and on is how one defines works.

I think we all would agree. He is our savior and our keeper and out of gratefulness for all he has done and our faith in him as a father, we should daily strive to be like him in works of love

but that is not the real issue in this debate

the issue is one side thinks we are saved by grace alone. And works procede of out that faith and salvation we have

the other group thinks we are pretty much initially saved by grace. But we must maintain that salvation or earn it by our works.. not because we are saved, but to be saved.
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
...the other group thinks we are pretty much initially saved by grace. But we must maintain that salvation or earn it by our works.. not because we are saved, but to be saved.
Click to expand...
And therein lies the fallacy. No person can "maintain" their salvation, for the simple reason that eternal life is a free GIFT of God, which cannot be earned or deserved. So it all boils down to a gross misunderstanding of salvation. It is a gross misunderstanding of justification by grace through faith, and the imputed righteousness which God gives to the one who repents and believes. "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness". This is a mind-blowing concept which many genuine Christians fail to fathom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ted01
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back