unclean animals? Are we Required to keep food laws under the new covenant?

I'm not sure how peoe can't see this.

We were created by God and God gave us a diet that was designed for eternal life.

The wise health council from God doesn't change over time.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

I find that most Christians are baffled by what they consider a change in the law. It is true that God's people were not to eat certain foods, now that is no longer required, but the spiritual law never changed.

Under Moses all law was in stone, it was explained to God's people through the flesh, in ways they could understand before they were all given the holy spirit to help. Christ explained it to us in the fifth chapter of Matthews, in the sermon on the mount. The first verses of that chapter explain that Christ did not change any low the Father gave, then Christ explained the difference in the law that he made.

Christ said "you have been told" then he said "but I tell you". Each law was true, given by our Father God, Christ gave its spiritual meaning. God is spirit, we are to live by the spirit. If we accept the fleshly meaning of these laws like dietary law or circumcision, it is denying the spirit of the law, God's true law.

So according to this verse are you implying that we are only to eat herbs and fruit.
Do you think the commands given at creation are prescriptive for all people at all times?

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
I don't see anything in this passage that prohibits clean and unclean for a Gentile. He actually tells them that the Law of Moses has been read even up to that point, so they could find out what was being required. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Act 15:21

Legalism. Avoid it like the plague.

amen exactly

“The new covenant was being inaugurated through Jesus' ministry and the unclean was the type and shadow of the things coming to pass.” ( prophecy being fulfilled )

There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.”[e] 17 And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?”[f] (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21

For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

Jesus reveals that eating the wrong types of food isn’t going to condemn anyone or make them unacceptable before God. But how they live thier life , what they , of themselves , put out into the world towards others this will make them unclean if it is evil we put forth

The clean and unclean food structure in the law is a figure that can be heard and obeyed representing the knowledge of and partaking of good and evil.

The law isn’t speaking to repentant faith filled people who are filled with the holy spirit of Jesus is the issue. So the law uses earthly figures like defining some foods as clean and some as unclean to see if the people will obey the law or not but what type of food a person eats really isnt really an issue God cares about

It has an effect , when we don’t realize what your saying there about the law being a figure and shadow of doing this to a person

“Seeing then that we have such hope, we ( the apostles ) use great plainness of speech:

and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if I’m concerned about all the figures and ordinances in Moses law like the food laws or sabbath days I’m never going to be able to see the spirit in those laws pertaining to what really does matter to god and what really does make a person Unclean to him

not the foods we eat but the words and actions that come out of us from our hearts and minds conception into our words and deeds expression and actions

“And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:20-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Simple way to understand my point which I feel adds to yours is

the Old Testament is like getting your flesh circumcised and becoming obligated to the entire law it’s not going to change your heart

But The New Testament is the circumcision of faith God promised long ago and has done for believers in Christ that changes the heart from thy place where evil comes out of us , to the place where Good and Gods Will comes out of us into the world the New Testament can change our hearts and minds which is the issue

I read this thread an hoped that you would reply to it.

Regarding the quote from another member: "The Unclean... are never sanctified in all the Bible."

I would say: except when they were like in the case of the leper.

In Leviticus this is written about the leper: "And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. 46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be."

But Jesus, demonstrating a new and living way received the leper thus:
"When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed."

Peter, still legally-minded and bull-headed, needed the Lord to show him a vision in order to change his mind about gentiles. So, the Lord showed Peter a vision of traditionally and legally "unclean" things, forbidden to be eaten as food.

"Kill and eat!" said the Lord.

Peter, seeking to be justified by the law, tells the Lord he has never eaten unclean things.

But the Lord interrupts with the standard of heaven, the standard of the son doing only what the Father tells him to do: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean!"

Notice, that God HAS MADE those things clean. How? Because the law of liberty in the Son of His love succeeds the law of sin and death.

When the Lord makes something clean that was previously unclean that thing is clean indeed.

But the greater issue is not about food, but about the gentiles. Where once the gentiles were not included in the family of God, now they are included to the fullest extent that Christ gave His life for all.

Amen

Can't edit so typos remain.

Consider:


God is restoring mankind through the Gospel, all the way back to where man once stood without sin.

Can you give a few examples to the "commands" you refer to, so I can answer appropriately? I do not desire to guess at what you may mean by the question.

Again, as I said, it refers to OT dietary laws, in their 4 specifics, citing from Deut. and Lev. I never said, in any place, that Acts 15 specifically or directly addressed clean/unclan dietary law. However, the verse you did highlight shows, that it indirectly does, along vs 19, and "turned unto God", and vs 16, "build again". Indeed, they could, even right then, as in every city where the scriptures were read, could understand God's will in diet, as from "Moses" (Torah), every "sabbath day" (7th day) when they would all meet together, as they do in all of Acts.

There is a difference between "legal" and "legalism".

Anything which seeks to say that obedience to God in faith is "legalism" is in fact, "licentiousnes" and "lawlessness".

Legalism is error.

Licentiousness / lawlessness is error.

Love is truth. John 14:15; Exodus 20:6.

Doesn't Acts 20:9 have them meeting the first day of the week?

Who on earth told you that?

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life, on a daily basis, as they had conditional immortality by it. Once they had sinned, God removed them from access to it, so that they wouldn't continue to eat and live forever as immortal sinners.

The Sabbath of the LORD thy God (JEHOVAH Elohiym) - The 7th Day - The Lord's day - Who, What, When, Where, Why, & How? Part 03

Acts 20:7

QUESTION: DIDN’T PAUL & THE DISCIPLES MEET ON “THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK” REGULARLY TO PARTAKE OF THE LORD’S SUPPER, AS IN ACTS 20:7?

No. See - ACTS 20:7 – https://archive.org/details/acts-20-vs-7-nutshell-image

[01.] Acts 20:7 is a one time event. There is no weekly occurrence or event here. The event is recorded, showing Paul was leaving them for a reason, and a special miracle occurred.

[02.] Acts 20:7 shows that it was at night time, “many lights”, “unto midnight”, “sleep”, “long preaching”, “morrow”, and thus was a ‘Saturday night’ (after the 7th day the Sabbath was over, ending in the evening time, become the “first [day] of the week”). The koine Greek is even more specific, showing that the time was during the 7 weeks leading up to Pentecost, wherein multiple sabbaths (plural; σαββάτων) were being counted by all. The physician Luke (Colossians 4:14) is the author of Acts (see Luke 1:1-4; Acts 1:1-3), and was the one with the Apostle Paul (Romans 1:1, 11:13; 1 Corinthians 1:1, 9:1-2, 15:9; 2 Corinthians 1:1, 12:12; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:1; Colossians 1:1; 1 Timothy 1:1, 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:1,11; Titus 1:1) on many of his journeyings (2 Timothy 4:11). Luke, himself, never once designates the “first [day] of the week” as “the sabbath” (the 7th day), or even a replacement for “the sabbath”, or that the sabbath was no longer “holy”, or to be kept as such by the follower of God, or no longer the (4th) “commandment” of God (Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15) to be obeyed by Christians (Jews & Gentiles), in either the Gospel of Luke, or the book of Acts of the Apostles, which records the entire history from the time of Jesus to the time of the death of Paul in Rome (Acts 28:16,30; 2 Timothy 4:6-8). Luke simply calls the day (Luke 24:1; Acts 20:7) the “first”, even as the people of God have from the beginning.

[03.] Luke, having been with Paul so long, never states or intimates that Paul had ever identified the “first [day]” as ”the sabbath”, or a replacement thereof, or that the sabbath was no longer “holy”, or to be kept as such by the follower of God, or no longer the (4th) “commandment” of God (Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15) to be obeyed by Christians (Jews & Gentiles), or that Paul had identified the “first [day]” as “the Lord’s day” (Revelation 1:10; really the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD, see Isaiah 58:13; Mark 2:27; &c.) anywhere in his (Luke’s) Gospel, or the Acts.

[04.] Luke never identifies the “first [day] of the week” as “the Lord’s day” anywhere in the Gospel of Luke or the book of the Acts.

Act 20:7 GNT TR εν δε τη μια των σαββατων συνηγμενων των μαθητων του κλασαι αρτον ο παυλος διελεγετο αυτοις μελλων εξιεναι τη επαυριον παρετεινεν τε τον λογον μεχρι μεσονυκτιου

[05.] Luke makes direct mention of the “first [day] of the week” only 2 times; once in his (Luke’s) Gospel (Luke 24:1), and once in the Acts (Acts 20:7). There is an intimation (through calculation) with “Pentecost”, which anti-typically was a one time event (typologically, a yearly, not a weekly), being upon the ”first [day] of the week”, having been 50 days since Jesus arose from the dead, (“first [day] of the week”) the fulfillment of the “firstfruits” or “wave sheaf” (Leviticus 23:9-22; Psalms 133:1-3; Matthew 28:1,6; Mark 16:2,6; Luke 24:1-6; John 20:1-18; Romans 5:5; Revelation 5:6; Isaiah 26:19; Matthew 27:50-54; Psalms 68:17-20; Ephesians 4:8-10; 1 Corinthians 15:20-23; Psalms 24:1-10)). Neither Luke, nor Paul, state or intimate that those ever refer to a weekly, or cyclical event that was to occur among the believers in Christ Jesus, as the 7th day, the sabbath of the LORD always was since the beginning (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) all the way into the New Heavens and New Earth (Isaiah 66:22-23). Additional intimations of the “first [day]” are included when Luke records that the disciples met “daily” (Acts 2:46-47, 5:42, 6:1, 16:5, 20:31), 17:11,17) and with Jesus for “forty days” (Acts 1:3,9) just before He ascended to the 3rd heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2,4) from the Mount of Olives (Luke 24:51,53, “continually”), which 40th day from firstfruits, was also not a “first [day]” gathering, but rather a middle of the week event (5th day, aka ‘Thursday’ commonly, not technically). See also other times (differing days of the week) when both Jews and/or Christians (Jews/Gentiles) met together (Matthew 26:55; Mark 14:49; Luke 22:53, 24:33,36; Acts 19:9; Hebrews 3:13) for varying purposes. Both John 20:19,26, along with Luke 24:1-49 reveal that the disciples met on the 2nd day of the week (first evening at sunset), and on the third and later days in that upper room (“And after eight days again” (John 20:26), and no matter how that is calculated, inclusive or exclusively, it cannot ever land upon “the first [day] of the week”). There is also an semi-unknown day (it was upon any day of the week other than the Sabbath (they went fishing at night; John 21:1,3-4)) that the disciples met with Jesus after his resurrection in John 21:1-25. These latter details reveal that the body of believers of God may gather on any and every day of the week with no injunction anywhere found in scripture against such. Yet, none of the extra gathering is to be a replacement or a nullification of necessary obedience (by God’s grace through faith, and in the Holy Spirit) to keeping the 7th day, the sabbath of the LORD thy God, holy. As for instance: a church business meeting on the 1st day (generally Sunday, though not technically) with a devotional, and prayer or a 2nd or 3rd day (generally Monday and Tuesday) gathering for song practice or other outreach activity, or a 4th day (generally Wednesday) prayer meeting, or a 5th day (generally Thursday) social gathering or potluck, or a 6th day (generally Friday) vespers, etc (wedding, feast, funeral, function, and so on) does not break the commandment, or given reason to ignore it. The evil is not the gathering together on any day of the 7 of the week, but the sin is in the neglecting the specific obedience to the 4th commandment (which covers all 7 days of the week) and desecrating the holiness of the 7th day.

[06.] Luke specifically records the word ”sabbath” (the 7th day) 27 times (actually 29 times, with the koine Greek of Luke 24:1; Act 20:7 considered); Luke 4:16,31, 6:1,2,5,6,7,9, 13:10,14(x2),15,16, 14:1,3,5, 23:54,56; Acts 1:12, 13:14,27,42,44, 15:21, 16:31, 17:2, (3 consecutive sabbaths) 18:4 (“every sabbath”; also vs 11, a “year and six months”, which is 52 weeks + 26 weeks, being 78 consecutive sabbaths met together on by both Jew and Gentile with the Apostle Paul and others, and in Acts 18:23, “he had spent some time there” (several sabbaths); in Act 19:8, “for the space of three months” (12 sabbaths); in Acts 19:10, “continued by the space of two years” (104 sabbaths), “in Acts 19:22, “for a season” (several sabbaths), in Acts 20:3, “three months” (12 sabbaths), and in Acts 20:18,31, “all seasons, ”a space of three years” (156 sabbaths)).

[07.] Neither Luke, nor Paul, state (explicitly, or implicitly) in any location (Gospel of Luke, Acts or Epistles of Paul) that Christians were to gather merely upon “the first [day] of the week” in honour of Christ’s resurrection. Paul specifically records that Christians honour Christ’s resurrection through an event, called “baptism” (Romans 6:1-23; Colossians 2:12).

...

...

[08.] The meeting of the “disciples” in Acts 20:7 is an evening or night meeting after the sun had set (“even, when the sun did set”, see Mark 1:32, 11:19-20, 13:35-36; Matthew 27:45, 28:1; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44; John 20:19; sunset is the 12th hour, John 11:9, the full day beginning with the “night” or “evening”; Genesis 1:5,8,13,19,23,31, &c.), signifying the previous day, the sabbath, the 7th day (Acts 20:6, the end of the “seven days” in “Troas”), was ended (“ready to depart on the morrow (next day at sunrise)” (vs 7,10)), “continued his (Paul’s) speech until midnight” (12 o’clock AM (Mark 13:35; Luke 22:53, “power [strength] of darkness” (darkest part of the night time)), (vs 7)), “there were many lights in the upper chamber” (vs 8), “Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep … sunk down with sleep” (vs 9), “Paul was long preaching” (vs 9), “come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day” (vs 10, “break of day”, see also 2 Samuel 2:32; Song of Solomon 2:17, 4:6). No meeting took place on ‘Sunday morning’, but rather what is commonly called “Saturday night”, from sundown until midnight and beyond.

[09.] There is no continual or ongoing pattern in Acts 20:7 (and context) of a weekly “first [day]” meeting of “disciples”. It is instead a single instance of a special night meeting with those of a single city and/or congregation, to conclude a farewell with Paul (Acts 20:7, whom they would more than likely never see again like Acts 20:36-38), of which there is also the record of a special event; the raising of Eutychus (Acts 20:9-12).

[10.] Paul, being “ready to depart [from Troas] on the morrow … minding himself to go afoot by foot [to Assos, then from there, by boat to Mitylene]” (Acts 20:7,13-14), being commonly known as ‘Sunday morning’, thus walks some 19-20ish miles distance (a non-Sabbath day’s journey; see Acts 1:12) to meet with those who went ahead of him by boat. There is no “Sunday” (morning) service in Acts 20:7 (and context).

[11.] The “disciples” met to eat food, or “break bread” (vs 7,11; koine Greek, “κλάσαι ἄρτον [klasai arton]”, “κλάσας ἄρτον [klasas arton]”), a phrase commonly used to mean a simple daily ‘common fellowship meal’ (see Luke 24:35 (“κλάσει τοῦ ἄρτου” [klasei tou artou]); Acts 2:42,46, (“κλάσει τοῦ ἄρτου” [klasei tou artou], “κλῶντές τε κατ᾽ οἶκον ἄρτον” [klwntes te kat oikon arton]) “breaking of bread”, “breaking bread from house to house”) and sometimes a reference to “the Lord’s supper” (1 Corinthians 11:20; see 1 Corinthians 10:16, “the bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ” [“τὸν ἄρτον ὃν κλῶμεν οὐχὶ κοινωνία τοῦ σώματος τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐστιν” [“ton arton on klwmen ouchi koinwnia tou swmatos tou Christou estin”]), when the context speaks of the things which go along with the breaking of the bread in that supper. The context of Acts 20:7 lacks those additional things and phrases which accompanied ”the Lord’s supper”:

“cup” (Exodus 24:11 (“drink”); 1 Chronicles 28:17; Jeremiah 52:9; Matthew 26:27; Mark 14:23; Luke 22:17,20; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21, 11:25-29);

[II] “fruit of the vine” (pure juice of the grape; Matthew 26:29; Mark 14:25; Luke 22:18; 1 Corinthians 10:16 (“blessing”);

[III] “Lord’s table” (Exodus 35:13, 39:36; Leviticus 24:6; 1 Kings 7:48; 2 Chronicles 4:19, 13:11, 29:18; Ezekiel 41:22; Malachi 1:7,12; 1 Corinthians 10:21);

[IV] “Lord’s supper” (1 Corinthians 11:20,21; Luke 22:20; John 13:2,4, 21:20; Revelation 19:9);

[V] “wash the disciples feet” (John 13:5-17);

[VI] “towel” (John 13:4,5);

[VII] “bason” (John 13:5);

[VIII] “water” (John 13:5);

[IX] “servant (‘service’)” (John 13:16);

[X] “blood” (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; Hebrews 9:11-28);

[XI] “testament” (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; Hebrews 9:11-28);

[XII] the significance of the “Lord’s supper” was not to show the resurrection, but rather the “Lord’s death” (1 Corinthians 11:26).

[12.] Even if someone would like to ‘assume’ into the text a pattern or continual weekly meeting on the “first [day]”, why then do they not follow the exact ‘pattern’ (actual record) set out therein (Acts 20:6-14), wherein a ‘Saturday night’ meeting takes place, from sunset until midnight, in an upper loft of a house, with the preacher continuing to preach the whole time, with some time taken for a meal around midnight, with the pastor taking a long walk the following morning to their next meeting in a differing city?

[13.] If one really desires to study Acts 20:7, they must begin in Acts 13 and read all those chapters to get the best picture. In short: (Acts 20:7, is a final farewell visit by Paul, who was going around “confirming the churches”, and always preached on Sabbath (Read Acts 13:14,27,42,44, (14:15-16, to keep the Sabbath; Exodus 20:11) 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4, (20:6, 21:4, 28:14; Paul always waited the full week out (Acts 16:12-13), sometimes exactly seven days (Acts 20:6), so that he could keep the Sabbath with fellow Jews, & Proselytes & Christians (see Acts 2:10; 13:16,26,42-50, 14:1,2,8,15-16,20-23,26-28, 15:16-17,19,21,41, 17:1-2,4,12,17,44, 18:4,8,11, 19:8-10,17, 20:21) and preach the gospel upon that sacred day (Acts 17:2), just as Jesus had; Luke 4:16-21; see also at Troas - 2 Corinthians 2:12; 2 Timothy 4:13), and in this instance, after Sabbath was complete, they met again and continued in fellowship and preaching, and had a final farewell unto Paul and the others that were with him.

See:

Image:

https://archive.org/details/acts-20-vs-7-nutshell-image_202301

Powerpoint Slide:

https://archive.org/details/acts-20-vs-7-nutshell_202301

Chapter and verse, please. Oh, wait, there are no such verses.

Your view makes God a liar. I'll stick with what Scripture says.

Gen_2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Gen_1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Gen_2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Perhaps you should sheath your pride.

Perhaps you should stop pretending Scripture says something it does not.

Nowhere does it say Adam and Eve ate daily of the Tree of Life. No. Where.

Or that they had conditional immortality before eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Scripture does, however, say that God alone is immortal.

Those verses said they could. They don't say they actually did.
The implication of 3:22 is that they had not and God didn't want them to now that they were in a fallen estate.

Thank you We know that Jesus was purposed from before the foundation of the world that all who believe on Him by grace
through faith would be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after... because God knew the choice Adam and Eve would make

Amen.