What is onotological identity John 10:30
- Thread starter TheLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
There is nothing about "ontological" anything in John 10:30, if you look at the context its clear.
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Furthermore, if John 10:30 is about ontological unity, then we are also God. Because Jesus wants US to be "one" like Him and His Father are ONE. It clearly means one as in, united in purpose
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Furthermore, if John 10:30 is about ontological unity, then we are also God. Because Jesus wants US to be "one" like Him and His Father are ONE. It clearly means one as in, united in purpose
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
There are also three Persons/Beings identified by John 10:30.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
[1] (The) Father, "and"
[2] I, My (The Son)
[3] (The Holy Ghost/Spirit, which inspired Jesus to say what He said (Luk. 4:18), and the scripture as written (2 Tim. 3:15-17), the Camera-man behind the scenes as it were, as the Eternal Witness, and uniting The Father and The Son in one heart-mind-purpose; "are one").
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
[1] (The) Father, "and"
[2] I, My (The Son)
[3] (The Holy Ghost/Spirit, which inspired Jesus to say what He said (Luk. 4:18), and the scripture as written (2 Tim. 3:15-17), the Camera-man behind the scenes as it were, as the Eternal Witness, and uniting The Father and The Son in one heart-mind-purpose; "are one").
AMP Bible
Jn 10:30 I and the Father are One [in essence and nature].”
Link: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 10&version=AMP
The brackets are placed by the Bible translators. One verse doctrine building invariably leads to scriptural misinterpretations.
Jesus deity assertion begins in verse 22. Vs 29 states "MY" Father. Verse 30 "Are" (Greek translation is in the masculine gender = 2 persons). The translators brackets in vs 30, express not only persons & unity, but essence as well.
Jn 10:30 I and the Father are One [in essence and nature].”
Link: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 10&version=AMP
The brackets are placed by the Bible translators. One verse doctrine building invariably leads to scriptural misinterpretations.
Jesus deity assertion begins in verse 22. Vs 29 states "MY" Father. Verse 30 "Are" (Greek translation is in the masculine gender = 2 persons). The translators brackets in vs 30, express not only persons & unity, but essence as well.
-
2
- Show all
Let's first deal with the definition of "ontology." The word is a "noun," the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being."
At John 10:30 Jesus has just said that the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father. Jesus is asserting the essential unity of the Father and the Son in the word "one" (hen). It is a neuter number to indicate equality of essence, attributes, design, will and work. (Someone already went over this.)
Jesus distinguishes the "I" from the "Father" and uses the plural verb "are" denoting "we are." Thus these words separate the persons within the Godhead, but "one" asserts their unity of essence or nature as identical. So, technically speaking Jesus is saying, "I and My Father we are one."
The Jews understood Jesus correctly. "Again" refers to John 8:59 at which time the Jews also attempted to stone Him for blasphemy. It should also be noted that many understand this verse to meaning the Father and the Son are one in purpose. It's already a "given" they are one in purpose but being one in purpose is not a "blasphemy" offense.
How do I know? John 10:33, "The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You being a man, make Yourself out God." Now, if this is teaching the idea of "one in purpose" why does Jesus bring up Psalm 82:6, the subject of "gods?" Vs 34, "Has it not been written in your Law, "I said you are Gods?" Vs35, "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scriptures cannot be broken, vs36, do you say of Him , whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said "I am the Son of God?" So, my question is what is the point Jesus is trying to make from John 10:34-38?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
At John 10:30 Jesus has just said that the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father. Jesus is asserting the essential unity of the Father and the Son in the word "one" (hen). It is a neuter number to indicate equality of essence, attributes, design, will and work. (Someone already went over this.)
Jesus distinguishes the "I" from the "Father" and uses the plural verb "are" denoting "we are." Thus these words separate the persons within the Godhead, but "one" asserts their unity of essence or nature as identical. So, technically speaking Jesus is saying, "I and My Father we are one."
The Jews understood Jesus correctly. "Again" refers to John 8:59 at which time the Jews also attempted to stone Him for blasphemy. It should also be noted that many understand this verse to meaning the Father and the Son are one in purpose. It's already a "given" they are one in purpose but being one in purpose is not a "blasphemy" offense.
How do I know? John 10:33, "The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You being a man, make Yourself out God." Now, if this is teaching the idea of "one in purpose" why does Jesus bring up Psalm 82:6, the subject of "gods?" Vs 34, "Has it not been written in your Law, "I said you are Gods?" Vs35, "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scriptures cannot be broken, vs36, do you say of Him , whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said "I am the Son of God?" So, my question is what is the point Jesus is trying to make from John 10:34-38?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
-
1
- Show all
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
John 14:6-9 KJV
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
He claims to be one with God the father because he is God made flesh and blood who came to save us as he said he would do in the Old Testament
for Jesus to claim to be one within the father is just fulfillment of prophecy
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
Isaiah 9:6 KJV
“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:23 KJV
Jesus is much more than simply working with God in unison and purpose jesus is God working out mankind’s salvstion
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
John 14:6-9 KJV
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
He claims to be one with God the father because he is God made flesh and blood who came to save us as he said he would do in the Old Testament
for Jesus to claim to be one within the father is just fulfillment of prophecy
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
Isaiah 9:6 KJV
“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:23 KJV
Jesus is much more than simply working with God in unison and purpose jesus is God working out mankind’s salvstion
It is spelled correctly. Ontology is the study of being/existence/nature/essence/reality.
There is argument about whether in John 10:30 Jesus is declaring Himself equivalently YHWH or if He is merely saying He shares the values and intentions of God.
The Jews He was speaking to did not have any confusion about His statement. They immediately tried to kill Him for what they understood to be blasphemy, because they did not believe He is Who He is.
There is argument about whether in John 10:30 Jesus is declaring Himself equivalently YHWH or if He is merely saying He shares the values and intentions of God.
The Jews He was speaking to did not have any confusion about His statement. They immediately tried to kill Him for what they understood to be blasphemy, because they did not believe He is Who He is.
-
1
- Show all