Do you observe the Sabbath?

I don't believe in sinless perfectionism. I believe in repentance and confession to God when/if someone sins followed by not only the genuine desire to not sin again, but measurable actions. This has to be sincere. It can't be understated that we are fooling no one but ourselves if we think confession is simply lip service or repentance is not an effort that requires sincere and deliberate intention.

Acts 20
20First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. So what are the fruits meet for repentance and can you answer my other questions?

Wow, this is really sad... I've never seen someone turn away from the Gospel of Grace back to a thing of Works.

Galatians 5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Thanks again for replying. Those are the fruit of the Spirit. You mentioned earlier measurable actions. I was asking what those are.

You constantly trip over the grace step.

I want you to listen very carefully.

You do not gain salvation through your works, only by the grace of God.

Salvation is a gift given to those that believe in Jesus.

Now, you can forfeit your salvation through continuous disobedience (Galatians 5).

A believer in Jesus follows Jesus but is not actually saved by that walk.

See the difference?

The free gift remains valid, unless you sin so much that you stop believing in Jesus.

For some peculiar reason, lots of folk misunderstand grace and salvation?

Yet everyone continues to sin, you are included.

If you fail to admit that you transgress the law, then you are a liar. Everyone sins, everyone is disobedient to some extent.

If you exhibit the deeds of the flesh, your sinning.

That's why salvation is by the grace of God, otherwise salvation is impossible.

Amen salvation is not attained by works. But if we want to be obedient we know what to repent of and obey from what he says in his word.

Salavation is by the grace of God, provided you are trying to not sin, are repentant, and have faith.

You don’t get to willfully sin all day and keep your confession and grace card in your back pocket just to whip out before going to sleep and have your sins magically absolved. I hope that isn’t what you’re thinking. God’s grace won’t be abused.

Jude 1
4For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

I want you to listen very carefully.

I’ve quoted many verses about something you should do to be saved, but you’re telling me “you’re saved by grace” which appears one time in the New Testament as far as I know.

The free grace doctrine is a footnote in the Bible, whereas perseverance in doing good is the main idea. Easy believism isn’t the gospel.

If you don’t have anything else, do you have anymore questions about the requirement of the Sabbath?

I just read it.
Rom 2:4-8
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Verse 4 and 5 is about 2 groups those that are repentant because of God's goodness and those that treasure up wrath beacause of their hard hearts.
We will be judged by The righteous judgment of God; (vs6) Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Vs 7 and 8 again compares the 2, those that continue in well doing, seek for glory and Gods honour and eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness.

These verses tell me that being a true follower of mean seeking to do well. Seeking to glorify God by doing His righteousness. Not harding your heart and practicing unrighteousness.

The righteousness of God is only possible by faith in Jesus. But we must choose to Give Jesus our hearts.

Can i ask you to be honest?
Do you feel the Holy Spirit impress you not to Lie?
Do think stealing is acceptable?

For the same motivation that people want to obey the other 9 commandments. Motivated by love, motivated by The Gospel, motivated by The Holy Spirit. I can be motivated to obey the sabbath for the same reason.

It will not earn salvation.
But because i love my Lord i desire to practice righteousness.

I think of it like a judgement.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

We will all stand before the judgement. No hiding.

All have sinned and even if we are perfect from today on our past sins will hold us guilty..
Sin = death
Sin is the transgression of the law.

No law = no guilt.
No law = no death
No law = no need for judgment.

God is Just. Man is unjust.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

When we stand before God, and God is Just, death is the just result for everyone that has sinned. Justice demands eternal death for all sinners.

Wages of sin = death.
Did God remove the law?
No
Jesus was perfect and without sin but paid the debt of sin.
Jesus obeyed the law and was perfectly righteous so the law could not condemn Him of death.

We can by faith accept the gift that Jesus gained for us.

Firstly Jesus paid the debt for us so justice is good and the law can't accuse us.
Secondly Jesus wants to prepare us for eternal purity and eternal righteousness. So Jesus offers us His robe of righteousness.

When we stand before God in the judgment we are both sinless and perfectly righteous.
We are both free from transgressing the law and seen as perfectly obeying the law.

This is wonderful grace.
If the law was changed and removed the grace would not be needed. Mercy would be useless with no law.

Cheap grace...
Even the devil believes in Jesus.
The devil believes more about heaven and God then us because the devil has seen and experience lots of heavenly things.

Believing is not enough.
True faith = works. True love = works.
The works do not save.
Faith in Jesus saves but your faith will be seen by your fruits.
Mat 7:16-23
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Those that profess to be saved and work iniquity will be sad when Jesus comes.

I'm sure He can, just as I'm sure He could help some believers like Timothy to get circumcised. But just because it might be something God calls some Christians to, doesn't mean it is something that God calls every Christian to. The Sabbath, just like every other Old Testament law, is fulfilled in Christ. There is no further effort required on our part to keep it.

They are distinct, some people have works and no faith some have faith and no works.

But real Godly faith can not exist with works.
Works naturally result from true faith.

The issue is what is Gods will.
I think it is Gods will to obey the moral law. You think it is Gods will to obey 9/10th of the moral law.
If you believed God wanted us to obey the 4th commandment, your fruits would be different.

Your point is always based on " the sabbath is only for the Jews".
Like i said the reason for it being made holy and blessed has not changed and the fact that Jesus said it was made for man (all mankind) makes it for everyone. The lack of written records does not make it void. GEN 2 is enough for me to know that it was made holy from the start.

gentiles were and are not under the Law. and were never commanded to keep the Sabbath.

you and the others can chirp and bend and twist all you want, you cannot change that Biblical and historical fact.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Hi TMS... I appreciate your concern regarding my post as well as Christian's behavior/works, etc.

The post was motivated by concern not only regarding the sabbath-keeping, but other posts made regarding a works-based salvation. Which, according to my understanding of the Gospel/Scriptures is a huge red-flag of no salvation at all, for we are not Saved by works at all. There are simply too many warnings against returning to the Law in Scripture for us to ignore.

While I am no theologian and my understanding of many issues of the Word is less than "mature". I do believe that the idea that keeping the Law/Commandments to obtain or sustain Salvation goes against the very Heart of the Gospel. A Christian's entire (spiritual) position is thoroughly dependent on Jesus Christ... no works that we do, of our own will, will win us favor with God. I'd love to go deeper into explaining that further, but I think that the Bible is sufficient... no need to rewrite that.

Earlier, I posted from Romans 14... and I believe that sincerely. It's not my place to judge people about their particular beliefs about how they conduct their lives. So, if somebody believes, that for them, keeping the Sabbath is a "must-do" thing, then I would not only respect that, I would want to help them maintain their belief. However, if they would go so far as to say something to the effect that all Christians should be living the same way, I would tend to disagree. And when it comes to something like the Messianic, Jewish movement, I'm left with no comment, as it rests wholly on the individual's heart, which is hidden from me.

When it comes to me following the "laws" that God has written on my heart/mind... well, that's a complex issue as well. I think that God, in His infinite Wisdom and wonderous Knowledge, has allowed us (gentiles), with all the diversity of cultures and customs, to not have to conform to the ways of Jewish nation. The idea of honoring our parents, for instance, can range widely from place to place. Again, since you mentioned honesty/lying, that too can be subjective due to culture or situation, imho. Consider for a moment... were the spies that were mentioned in the O.T. (going into the promised land or Jericho), were they "honest"? Did they lie and/or deceive in order to maintain their position of being a "spy"? Did they break the Law?
So too, is the instance of sabbath-keeping... in my mind, God made the 7th day Holy. What day that actually was, I haven't a clue. The Jewish concept of it being Saturday is probably correct, but in truth, I myself do not know. What I do believe, is that my Sabbath rest is found in Jesus' work/ministry on my behalf. Atonement, propitiation, justification, imputed righteousness, the continual forgiveness of my sins, etc., etc. are all accomplished in and by Him. And rest in Him is what I strive to do. While I do try, in my own power, to be an "upstanding" individual, and righteous among men, I do that according to my own upbringing, culture and understanding of Scripture... including allowing the Law to be my tutor. All the while, trying to constantly yield to the Holy Spirit, who is conforming me into the image of Christ Jesus.

Hope that helps...