Do you observe the Sabbath?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
N

Nils

New member
#761
Dec 16, 2022
17
6
3
#761
TMS said:
I went to bed last night and today...

I've give proff that the old covenant is not the 10 commandments...
Click to expand...
Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments. - Exodus 34:28 NIV

“,........... or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
These are the commandments the Lord proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me. - Deuteronomy 5:21-22 NIV
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#762
Apr 7, 2014
25,471
13,414
113
58
#762
TMS said:
..Because people are saying...
" the law is not valid in the new covenant", "the sabbath isn't part of the new covenant".
I'd really like bible verses to prove this.
I've give proff that the old covenant is not the 10 commandments, and explained the old covenant compared to the new...
Please explain from the bible how the new covenant has made the 10 commandments void.
Click to expand...
Exodus 34:27-28 - "Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

Deuteronomy 4:13 - "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 9:9 - "When I went up to the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the Lord had made with you, then I remained on the mountain forty days and nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water.

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#763
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#763
mailmandan said:
Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Click to expand...
Paul was basically saying don't let anyone say "Do not do X thing!" because those are human commands. You're actually supposed to keep the Sabbath, though, and I'll rightly divide what Paul meant. Thank you @HopeinHim4ever for pointing this out to me.

Below, he referred to things that are deceptive philosophies and human traditions/commands/teachings. The Sabbath is none of those things. We can accurately know what the Sabbath is by answering the following question: is the Sabbath from man or from heaven?

If you answered heaven, you're correct.

Colossians 2:8,21,22
8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
21“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#764
Apr 7, 2014
25,471
13,414
113
58
#764
Runningman said:
Paul was basically saying don't let anyone say "Do not do X thing!" because those are human commands. You're actually supposed to keep the Sabbath, though, and I'll rightly divide what Paul meant. Thank you @HopeinHim4ever for pointing this out to me.

Below, he referred to things that are deceptive philosophies and human traditions/commands/teachings. The Sabbath is none of those things. We can accurately know what the Sabbath is by answering the following question: is the Sabbath from man or from heaven?

If you answered heaven, you're correct.

Colossians 2:8,21,22
8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
21“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
Click to expand...
Here is an article which sheds more light on the subject and may be helpful for you.

http://www.sabbatismos.com/the-sabbath/new-covenant-sabbath-rest/#sthash.fOWwsDmH.dpbs
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#765
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#765
mailmandan said:
Here is an article which sheds more light on the subject and may be helpful for you.

http://www.sabbatismos.com/the-sabbath/new-covenant-sabbath-rest/#sthash.fOWwsDmH.dpbs
Click to expand...
Interesting read, but I believe the author's pretense is mostly false, though there were some good points for consideration that I'll take time to sort out. I don't want to make my response overly longwinded.

I'll preface this by saying that just because something was in the Old Covenant and the Old Covenant was canceled, it doesn't mean bits and pieces of the Old cannot be found in the New Covenant.

For example, in Luke 23:55,56 disciples of Jesus are still observing the Sabbath after Jesus' death. Apparently, Jesus never forbade Sabbath keeping or made it a point to tell them they don't need to keep it. Luke wrote this approximately 30 years or so after the death and resurrection of Jesus, still referring to the Sabbath as a commandment after the New Covenant had already been in effect by the blood of Christ.

Luke 23
55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

"Just prior to this statement, Paul declares that God has “canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross” (Col. 2.14)"

The NKJV and KJV words it like the above, but most versions/translations word Colossians 2:14 something like our debt/charges have been taken away, not that the code itself is removed:

NIV
14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

"However, Taylor points out the incredulous nature of Bacchiocchi’s explanation: “These religious holidays, including the Sabbath, were symbols pointing forward to Jesus. They were typological prefigurations of Jesus. How could the perversion of a symbol be a shadow or prefiguration of Christ?”

Galatians 2 says to basically avoid human teachings/traditions/commands. The Sabbath isn't a human teaching because it's from God.


"A further indication that the fourth commandment is not a binding moral institution lies in the fact that Sabbath-breaking is never mentioned as a sin in the New Testament, nor is it listed as a moral responsibility. "

Hebrews 4 refers to the Sabbath as a calendar day, literally the time and space between dawn and dark.

Hebrews 4
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#766
Mar 17, 2022
2,917
852
113
#766
Runningman said:
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Click to expand...
So what were the disciples referring to with that question, 'when will this happen'?
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#767
Mar 17, 2022
2,917
852
113
#767
Runningman said:
Paul was basically saying don't let anyone say "Do not do X thing!" because those are human commands. You're actually supposed to keep the Sabbath, though, and I'll rightly divide what Paul meant. Thank you @HopeinHim4ever for pointing this out to me.

Below, he referred to things that are deceptive philosophies and human traditions/commands/teachings. The Sabbath is none of those things. We can accurately know what the Sabbath is by answering the following question: is the Sabbath from man or from heaven?

If you answered heaven, you're correct.

Colossians 2:8,21,22
8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
21“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
Click to expand...
Was circumcision from man or God?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#769
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#769
Inquisitor said:
So what were the disciples referring to with that question, 'when will this happen'?
Click to expand...
The point is that Jesus commanded them to pray their flight doesn’t take place on the Sabbath. What Jesus was referring to is a future event that hasn’t happened yet right?
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#770
Mar 17, 2022
2,917
852
113
#770
TMS said:
In A Doctrinal Catechism,
A question asked to the RC Church
Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
- Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.
Click to expand...
The church never changed the sabbath day to another day.

Historically, you will not find that the church gathered on any day other than Sunday.

The first day resurrection is what we celebrate, that is what we have always celebrated.

The sabbath day is a rest day, the only nation that honored that day were the Jews.

The first day is not a rest day, never was a rest day.

You rightly should rest on Saturday and then gather on the first day, as the church always has done. That's if you want to obey the law and church tradition.

We do not celebrate feasts either which many churches do. The apostle's letters never impose the law on Gentiles and Jesus never mentions the Gentiles. When Jesus talks about the law. There is a huge blank in the New Testament, when it comes to the law and the Gentiles.

Paul is the only author that seems to address the Gentiles in the New Testament.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#771
Mar 17, 2022
2,917
852
113
#771
Runningman said:
I’m not sure how that applies to Colossians 2 where Paul is making a point about keeping the Sabbath. What do you mean?
Click to expand...
Someone was talking about God's commandment, and the commandments of men. They also said, will you obey man or God?

Circumcision like the sabbath were both commanded to be obeyed, before Moses received the written law.

Circumcision is a commandment which means that God has changed His mind.

Some folk say God never changes but He does, circumcision is one of the proofs that He does change His mind.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#772
Mar 17, 2022
2,917
852
113
#772
Runningman said:
The point is that Jesus commanded them to pray their flight doesn’t take place on the Sabbath. What Jesus was referring to is a future event that hasn’t happened yet right?
Click to expand...
No, your wrong.

According to Luke there are two end time events.

The first end time event is the desolation of the temple and Jerusalem.

The second event is the end of the age of the Gentiles.

Two different events.

The first event is historical and the second event precedes the return of Jesus.

Most churches have it wrong and always quote from Matthew.

Matthew 24 and Luke 21 must be read together.

Luke 21:20-22
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of punishment, so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled.

The city of Jerusalem was off limits for Christians. Living in the countryside of Israel was not a problem.

This passage only concerns Jerusalem and the temple, that's all.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#773
Mar 17, 2022
2,917
852
113
#773
ServantoftheMostHigh said:
But who does the rest come from? I think that sabbath day is the eternal rest that we experience now and then fully at the end of 7th thousandth year. Thats How I see it.
Click to expand...
Of course it is the eternal rest, the sabbath rest was fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

The sabbath day was a shadow rest waiting to be fulfilled and converted into an eternal rest.

The Exodus was freedom from Egyptian slavery but we have been delivered from slavery to sin. The blood over the Hebrew door frames was the shadow of the blood of Jesus Christ. The angel of death will not touch us as he touched the first born in Egypt.

Everything in the Old Testament was a shadow of the future, spiritual, reality of Jesus Christ.

I think one of the deepest problems in church history. Has been an inability to see the full fulfillment, the spiritual fulfillment. Of everything that the Old Testament portrayed.

The creation in Genesis was superseded by the new creation, that we are in Jesus Christ.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#774
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#774
Inquisitor said:
No, your wrong.

According to Luke there are two end time events.

The first end time event is the desolation of the temple and Jerusalem.

The second event is the end of the age of the Gentiles.

Two different events.

The first event is historical and the second event precedes the return of Jesus.

Most churches have it wrong and always quote from Matthew.

Matthew 24 and Luke 21 must be read together.

Luke 21:20-22
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of punishment, so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled.

The city of Jerusalem was off limits for Christians. Living in the countryside of Israel was not a problem.

This passage only concerns Jerusalem and the temple, that's all.
Click to expand...
What is it Jesus was referring to below, saying there will be great distress unequaled form the beginning of the world until now and never to be equaled again? You think the destruction of the temple was the worst thing that could possibly happen in Earth’s history?

Matthew 24
20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#775
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#775
Inquisitor said:
No, your wrong.

According to Luke there are two end time events.

The first end time event is the desolation of the temple and Jerusalem.

The second event is the end of the age of the Gentiles.

Two different events.

The first event is historical and the second event precedes the return of Jesus.

Most churches have it wrong and always quote from Matthew.

Matthew 24 and Luke 21 must be read together.

Luke 21:20-22
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of punishment, so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled.

The city of Jerusalem was off limits for Christians. Living in the countryside of Israel was not a problem.

This passage only concerns Jerusalem and the temple, that's all.
Click to expand...
Something equal to or worse than what happened to Jerusalem in 70AD already happened.

2 Kings 25
9He set fire to the temple of the Lord, the royal palace and all the houses of Jerusalem. Every important building he burned down.
 
MessengerofTruth

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
#776
Dec 21, 2022
688
434
63
#776
Inquisitor said:
Someone was talking about God's commandment, and the commandments of men. They also said, will you obey man or God?

Circumcision like the sabbath were both commanded to be obeyed, before Moses received the written law.

Circumcision is a commandment which means that God has changed His mind.

Some folk say God never changes but He does, circumcision is one of the proofs that He does change His mind.
Click to expand...
I would say that it was made abundantly clear as to what the circumcision stood for, being a circumcision of the heart. Paul and the Old Testament speak to this.

The thing is, there are no scriptures that explicitly say that the Sabbath day is not relevant to us today in the New Covenant. If there was, we would likely not be having this discussion.

Also, the Sabbath observance is in the 10 Commandments of GOD, written with His very finger and placed Into the Ark of the Covenant.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#777
Mar 21, 2015
3,888
1,235
113
Australia
#777
Inquisitor said:
Was circumcision from man or God?
Click to expand...
From God,
And God still requires us to die to, or remove the flesh and live by the Spirit.
Circumcision is of the heart.
Rom 3:30-31
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
mailmandan said:
Exodus 34:27-28 - "Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

Deuteronomy 4:13 - "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 9:9 - "When I went up to the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the Lord had made with you, then I remained on the mountain forty days and nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water.

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Click to expand...

The old failed. And the 10 commandments were a big part of the covenant.
But the part that failed was not the 10 commandments, (God doesn't make imperfect laws). The fault was with Israel. They couldn't keep the laws or stay faithful on their part.

God gave them a new covenant (through Jesus) built on better promises..

The law is still central but God peomises to write them on our hearts.

Col 2 is talking about shadow laws that were dividing the church. The Weekly sabbath is part of the 10 commandments.

God set up the Sabbath for us and has never removed it.
 
MessengerofTruth

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
#778
Dec 21, 2022
688
434
63
#778
Inquisitor said:
Of course it is the eternal rest, the sabbath rest was fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

The sabbath day was a shadow rest waiting to be fulfilled and converted into an eternal rest.

The Exodus was freedom from Egyptian slavery but we have been delivered from slavery to sin. The blood over the Hebrew door frames was the shadow of the blood of Jesus Christ. The angel of death will not touch us as he touched the first born in Egypt.

Everything in the Old Testament was a shadow of the future, spiritual, reality of Jesus Christ.

I think one of the deepest problems in church history. Has been an inability to see the full fulfillment, the spiritual fulfillment. Of everything that the Old Testament portrayed.

The creation in Genesis was superseded by the new creation, that we are in Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
I would understand that by obeying the 10 Commandments, That we are making it clear to heaven and earth that we worship and submit ourselves to the Creator GOD, as I believe this is largely what Sabbath speaks of, and not the commandments of man or those that seek to usurp the Authority of YHVH. I believe it means so much more than meets the eye.

Furthermore, I believe that if our All-knowing God did such a good job of making so much clear in the life of Christ and the ministry of Paul that He would have foreseen this debate that has been raging for a while and nipped it in the bud by saying plainly, as He did about circumcision. He is not the author of confusion.
 
MessengerofTruth

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
#779
Dec 21, 2022
688
434
63
#779
TMS said:
The law is still central but God peomises to write them on our hearts.
Click to expand...
He actually refers to the 10 commands by saying no longer on tables of stone but now on the tables of our heart. 2 Cor. 3:3
 
MessengerofTruth

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
#780
Dec 21, 2022
688
434
63
#780
Inquisitor said:
The first end time event is the desolation of the temple and Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
One thing I've always noticed is that Jesus said "not one stone will be left upon another", and yet the western wall still stands to this day
 
You must log in or register to reply here.