Praying for the dead

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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#61
Mar 1, 2022
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#61
Magenta said:
Watched any of Lennox in action - when? I did watch part of the video you posted. I have seen a number of his videos and debates in years gone by. As to any video H&H may have posted, I have no idea what you are talking about. H&H posts a lot of videos, and links to TikTok stuff. Some of the vids are ones he has posted before, and I do not watch them. I do check out some of the TikTok content. Cameron has a great sense of humour, and we joke around with each other. I am sorry if any of that offends you. I have not been well and honestly don't have the energy to respond to a lot of what gets posted. I certainly never meant to offend you in any way :cry:
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Hang in there sis. Our surprise emoji totals are reaching epic levels.
Now I'm going to have to apologize again but I've always found asking forgiveness alot easier than permission.
 
M

montana123

Well-known member
#62
Oct 9, 2021
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#62
persistent said:
Should Christians pray for 'people' who have died?
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Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

As soon as a person is dead judgment is already set whether he is with God or not with God.

If they were righteous they will stay righteous forever.

If they die with sin that is not forgiven they will live that way forever.

There is no purpose in praying for the dead if they did not accept the truth on Earth for there is no reversal of their situation for they only get the chance to be saved while on Earth.

Once a person dies that has sin that is not forgiven they are out of the flesh for it is because of the flesh that we can be forgiven and be saved.

For all sin dwells in the flesh and a person with sin forgiven will put off the flesh and their soul is saved.

But a person that dies and has sin unforgiven does not dwell in the flesh anymore so their whole being is tainted with nowhere to put off the sin for the sin must be transferred somewhere in which our flesh is like a scapegoat to put off the sin.

That is why angels that rebelled against God cannot saved for when they sinned they tainted their whole being for there was nowhere to transfer the sin for they were only made as one being.

Where a human is flesh and soul so they can be saved for the sin resides in the flesh and if they die with forgiveness they are saved but if saved not forgiven their whole being is tainted with no reversal for they cannot be back in the flesh again.

So we cannot pray for their salvation is they did not accept the truth.

And we would not have to pray for their needs food and clothing because they are not in the flesh.

So there is no purpose to pray for the dead.

That is a made up doctrine that you can pray for the dead and it will be effective.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#63
Mar 1, 2022
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#63
montana123 said:
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

As soon as a person is dead judgment is already set whether he is with God or not with God.

If they were righteous they will stay righteous forever.

If they die with sin that is not forgiven they will live that way forever.

There is no purpose in praying for the dead if they did not accept the truth on Earth for there is no reversal of their situation for they only get the chance to be saved while on Earth.

Once a person dies that has sin that is not forgiven they are out of the flesh for it is because of the flesh that we can be forgiven and be saved.

For all sin dwells in the flesh and a person with sin forgiven will put off the flesh and their soul is saved.

But a person that dies and has sin unforgiven does not dwell in the flesh anymore so their whole being is tainted with nowhere to put off the sin for the sin must be transferred somewhere in which our flesh is like a scapegoat to put off the sin.

That is why angels that rebelled against God cannot saved for when they sinned they tainted their whole being for there was nowhere to transfer the sin for they were only made as one being.

Where a human is flesh and soul so they can be saved for the sin resides in the flesh and if they die with forgiveness they are saved but if saved not forgiven their whole being is tainted with no reversal for they cannot be back in the flesh again.

So we cannot pray for their salvation is they did not accept the truth.

And we would not have to pray for their needs food and clothing because they are not in the flesh.

So there is no purpose to pray for the dead.

That is a made up doctrine that you can pray for the dead and it will be effective.
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Another reason, and probably more significant, that angels have no route to salvation is that they have no propitiation for their sins. Jesus never became an angel and shed His blood for them.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#64
#64
montana123 said:
So we cannot pray for their salvation is they did not accept the truth.

And we would not have to pray for their needs food and clothing because they are not in the flesh.

So there is no purpose to pray for the dead.

That is a made up doctrine that you can pray for the dead and it will be effective
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Never have prayed for the dead and only in the last couple years prayed at all. Seems that there are the Catholics praying for the dead and possibly some other denominations and it does seem that as you state, "there is no purpose to pray for the dead." I am not sure if your last line is accurate or inaccurate? I guess you mean praying for the dead was fabricated by someone but not Biblically based.
 
listenyoumustAll

listenyoumustAll

Well-known member
#66
Jul 22, 2021
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#66
persistent said:
Should Christians pray for 'people' who have died?
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Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
 
shittim

shittim

Senior Member
#67
Dec 16, 2016
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#67
I know of an experience where a believer was called to do so for a specific person and time, and did so, this was not like some supposed "churches" teach as an ongoing practice.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#68
Jul 3, 2015
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#68
persistent said:
When I posted a video of Lennox testimony it was not responded to and when a video of the preacher HealthandHappiness posted it seemed that you and Cameron were enthusiastically supporting that preacher but never responded regarding Lennox. Which the preacher HH is seemingly so pleased with is ok but I feel that it is a completely different approach then what I was hoping for that post.
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I was actually the first to respond with posts (two in a row!).
 
Blade

Blade

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#69
Nov 19, 2019
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#69
persistent said:
Should Christians pray for 'people' who have died?
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You search you study you ask Him Christ about it. Those that believe do not can not back it up with scripture. Some put others before Christ as if they can help. What they don't know is not one would ever answer but would point to Christ. They after this life want no glory no praise nothing what so ever to point to them. It was is always will be Christ alone and the to get the Father you need Christ.

To pray to the dead is opening the door to the enemy (satan). You never touch this stuff. Talk to pray to the one that is hello in you. Yeah why would you ever pray to the dead when you have GOD in side you that hears and answers before you even finish praying. What a slap to the face. To by pass Christ and try to talk to someone else.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#70
#70
persistent said:
Should Christians pray for 'people' who have died?
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There are times in scripture where God instructed his prophets to not even pray for wicked people who were yet still alive, so why would he want us to pray for the wicked dead?

Jeremiah 7:16
Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Jeremiah 11:14
Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#72
#72
Blade said:
What a slap to the face. To by pass Christ and try to talk to someone else.
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This certainly sounds appropriate. BTW Never prayed for dead in my life and only recently started praying for living.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#75
#75
Does not seem like praying to or for dead people is appropriate. Seems that to pray to dead is not at all right. Seems to pray for dead is not all right too. The dead know nothing and do nothing

Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Many years ago, I heard or read about where people go when they die and maybe it was a joke but if ever there was a God, I thought it sounded right. i.e. "Kill them all and let God sort them out" Still sounds right to me. This is what I think of as a peripheral issue that has nothing to do with salvation but yet can have negative effects if not treated properly.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#76
Jul 3, 2015
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#76
persistent said:
Does not seem like praying to or for dead people is appropriate. Seems that to pray to dead is
not at all right. Seems to pray for dead is not all right too. The dead know nothing and do nothing
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I agree :)
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#77
Jan 14, 2019
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#77
listenyoumustAll said:
Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
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Is it correct, that the dead in Ecc does not know what is going on "under the Sun" that is on the earth?
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#78
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#78
notonmywatch said:
There are times in scripture where God instructed his prophets to not even pray for wicked people who were yet still alive, so why would he want us to pray for the wicked dead?

Jeremiah 7:16
Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Jeremiah 11:14
Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.
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And, the context is? I am guessing it refers to a specific group of people.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#79
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#79
persistent said:
Does not seem like praying to or for dead people is appropriate. Seems that to pray to dead is not at all right. Seems to pray for dead is not all right too. The dead know nothing and do nothing

Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Many years ago, I heard or read about where people go when they die and maybe it was a joke but if ever there was a God, I thought it sounded right. i.e. "Kill them all and let God sort them out" Still sounds right to me. This is what I think of as a peripheral issue that has nothing to do with salvation but yet can have negative effects if not treated properly.
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Isaiah 14:1-11
Easy-to-Read Version
Israel Will Return Home
14 The Lord will again show his love to Jacob. He will again choose the people of Israel. He will give them their land. Then the non-Israelites[a] will join the Israelites, and both will become one family—Jacob’s family. 2 Those nations will bring the Israelites back to their land. The men and women from the other nations will become slaves to Israel. In the past, those people forced the Israelites to become their slaves. But in the future the Israelites will defeat those nations, and Israel will then rule over them in the Lord’s land. 3 In the past, you were slaves. People forced you to work hard. But the Lord will take away the hard work you were forced to do.

A Song About the King of Babylon
4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:

The king was cruel when he ruled us,
but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers;
he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people.
He never stopped beating them.
He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger.
He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet.
Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king,
and now you are finished.
Even the pine trees are happy.
The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.
They say, “The king chopped us down,
but now the king has fallen,
and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.
 
T

TheLearner

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#80
Jan 14, 2019
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#80
Aside:

Based on God's Nature: He is not limited by time, thus if one were to pray for someone who just died that they love, God is able to apply that prayer just before that person had died.
 
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